"Yes and No" Duality

[Strangeloop]

So I remember this one saying from Leo it goes something like this: "People don't recognise negative feedback" which means when I say "I'm not God" it means I'm God. Another example would be "there's no such thing as spirituality" which really means there is spirituality.

Also then I say "I don't like bad things" I start to see through it and see that I do like bad things but I'm in denial about it.

As well as an example in this forum said by Leo himself: "Don't treat it as an ideology" does it mean I'm manipulated into treating it as an ideology?

I don't know if I'm translating this well to you there's something I'm trying to show you.

In my language (Lithuanian) there's a lot of "no" in sentences especially in front of words which are written together and sometimes when people speak and they say the for example "neleidziama" which translates to "not allowed" does it mean that it is allowed?

I don't know I'm very confused about this yes and no thingy. In my thoughts I told myself that Yes is No; No is Yes which means Yes and No are one and the same. And yes this philosophy points to things like: taking no for an answer in business. For example I'm in rehab right now and I was speaking to a social worker about some erands in the rehab suggesting some thing. (It doesn't matter what the thing is)  At first he said No. Then I was persuading him giving him arguments, reasons and so forth. And at the end I asked him again - he said Yes. In which the philosophy of No is Yes is valid.

But on the other hand there's the mainstream philosophy. Yes is Yes; No is No meaning there's a difference bettween Yes and No. For example I was going to the toilet and I see another person closing the door and I tell him "Don't close the door" in result he leaves the door open which means that Yes is No; No is Yes philosophy is invalid and Yes is Yes; No is No is Valid. 

So in a sense now there's another duality not just between "Yes and No" but also in between of "Yes is No; No is Yes" and "Yes is Yes; No is No"

It seems to me that it's somekind of a paradox. Sometimes one philosophy is valid and another is not and vice versa. This Yes and No linguistic analysis is very confusing. I get that not every person here will understand this. I guess it's just my way of interpreting reality. 

But on the other hand if there's someone who gets where I'm pointing at will give me some feedback. I would like to see your point of view on this.

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Strangeloop said:

In my language (Lithuanian) there's a lot of "no" in sentences especially in front of words which are written together and sometimes when people speak and they say the for example "neleidziama" which translates to "not allowed" does it mean that it is allowed?

A sign that says "smoking not allowed", means smoking is not allowed. If someone smokes in the area, they will be asked to stop or leave. They might even get fined.  

[Leo Gura]

@Strangeloop You are misinterpreting things I said and confusing yourself.

Stop twisting things into pretzels. Sometimes a thing means exactly what it says.

[Nak Khid]

 

LET GO

Edited November 13, 2019 by Nak Khid

[RichardY]

@Strangeloop No; is the inverse, of Yes, which is not equivalent to an opposite.

Edited November 14, 2019 by RichardY

[Aeris]

that's my LOGIC :!

 

I keep repeating, don't smoke weed

and I finaly end up smoking weed.

the NO is a YES !!!
 

pua advice in 2025

we understand all the truth now of the duality

if a girl say to you a "NO", what she was saying outside of duality was "YES"

you was living in the no-no duality so far,

 

OBAMA come back campaign : NO WE CAN !!!

best mind control ever, yes we can, was too much pressure for people.

But indeed, you create in idea even by negating it.

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Aeris

[Strangeloop]

@Serotoninluv That's a great point. But what if I do smoke anyways in that area? In my logic if it's not allowed I wouldn't be able to smoke there at all. But see I can smoke there and because it's "Not allowed" I will get negative consequences out of it.

@Nak Khid Yea I get what you saying. I'm chasing my own tail, I've been running in circles all my life in fact Reality is a giant twisted circle which never ends and if it does end it still continues. At least that's how I see it.

@Aeris You get me. There are ton of examples of this people say I haven't done that I haven't done this and when you look more closely they have done it sometimes seconds ago.

 

[Dan502]

@Strangeloop I think it's good that you're looking beyond the words a little bit.

 

[Nak Khid]

14 hours ago, Strangeloop said:

 For example I'm in rehab right now

For alcohol?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Nak Khid

[remember]

mhhh, no/yes... nyes? it`s probably not a duality but a trinity although the decision making about it and the interpretation of it is sometimes very difficult. in some sense it`s sometimes good to take a no for a no and a yes for a yes but in the ultimate sense it`s sometimes better to discern what that nyes entails in its consequences. to be aware of the whole idea of limitation - for example if it was a womens toilet the person would have probably been a little confused and more likely have closed the door not feeling addressed. so this whole nyes construct is built upon a very delicate and sensitive emotional network of understanding when does a no mean a yes for whom and when does a no mean a no for whom. for example a judge gives also always a nyes - either for the suspect or for the plaintiff it`s a no or a yes, depending on laws. so there are some laws of nature or culture or in social terms we need to understand quite structurally to understand what the consequences of a nyes means.

the nyes topic is really one which never gets boring.

a little bit like the authority topic.

Edited November 14, 2019 by remember

[Strangeloop]

@Nak Khid For drugs

[Forestluv]

8 hours ago, Strangeloop said:

@Serotoninluv That's a great point. But what if I do smoke anyways in that area? In my logic if it's not allowed I wouldn't be able to smoke there at all. But see I can smoke there and because it's "Not allowed" I will get negative consequences out of it.

This gets into semantics about how we define the term "allowed". If there is a sign that says "Smoking Not Allowed". It doesn't mean that it's physically impossible to smoke there. That is not the agreed-upon meaning of the term "allowed". The colloquial use would be that a person or group of people decided that they want to prohibit smoking in the area. It doesn't mean that it's physically impossible to smoke there. 

[ivankiss]

Perhaps the subconscious does not register negation.

Nothing is still something.

No one is still someone.

Don't is do.

No is yes.

 

[Elisabeth]

@Strangeloop I think the thing you are hinting at is where your subconscious doesn't really recognize a negative sentence. So you shouldn't use them in affirmations and other techniques trying to influence your subconscious. But don't worry, your neocortex/waking mind is perfectly capable of recognizing a no. 

[Nak Khid]

23 hours ago, Strangeloop said:

I don't know I'm very confused about this yes and no thingy. In my thoughts I told myself that Yes is No; No is Yes which means Yes and No are one and the same. And yes this philosophy points to things like: taking no for an answer in business. For example I'm in rehab right now and I was speaking to a social worker about some erands in the rehab suggesting some thing. (It doesn't matter what the thing is)  At first he said No. Then I was persuading him giving him arguments, reasons and so forth. And at the end I asked him again - he said Yes. In which the philosophy of No is Yes is valid.

But on the other hand there's the mainstream philosophy. Yes is Yes; No is No meaning there's a difference bettween Yes and No. For example I was going to the toilet and I see another person closing the door and I tell him "Don't close the door" in result he leaves the door open which means that Yes is No; No is Yes philosophy is invalid and Yes is Yes; No is No is Valid. 

 

I recommend you buy a book on "emotional intelligence "

What is happening here with "yes" and "no"  is nothing more than people changing their intentions from moment to moment in inconsistent ways depending on the person and circumstances.

You are coming over to this philosophy forum which has many abstract conversations about paradoxes and people like to write things like
up = down,  you = god,  happy = sad"

this is just semantics, words games and if you take these games too seriously it will cause a state of confusion which can lead to mental illness.

You were headed to the bathroom and asked somebody leaving the bathroom not to close the door  but instead they closed it.
Does this means when you ask a person to do one thing they will always do the opposite?  No.
I recommend you don't try to turn particular incidents with particular people into extreme philosophical issues. That will drive you crazy.
You are in rehab and might be feeling powerless and feel even more powerless when you ask somebody to keep a door open and then they don't.
Is everybody who you request do something going to not do it because you requested it?  Does yes = no.
No, yes means yes and no means no.   A person you are dealing with might change their mind or choose to defy tour request.
Or they might not have heard your request.

Suppose the person heard you make the request and choose to defy you and do the opposite. Please do not turn that into some kind of rule about the universe.
Some of the things people say in this forum are simply mental masturbation, They are things that if you tried to apply it to your life would drove you crazy. Abstract Philosophy is a luxury for when you are well.  What you need now is to try to understand psychology and understand people's behavior and be able to react to it or not react to it in a practical effective way not one out of desperation and confusion.  And if you can't understand a person's behavior just let it go.  People act irrationally and badly all the time.  But other people act kindly and helpful. Yet many people are a mix of both.   The key is to become emotionally intelligent of other people's behavior, how to react or not react in a practical  way and if they misbehave be able to let it go sometimes and deal with it effectively when the situation call for it.
You may not have these interpersonal skills but if you find some people or books who are good at interacting with people and learn from this it will give you more stability and less confusion.
But if you go to "big" philosophical discussions it will probably lead to more confusion and suffering because even the best minds go around in circles with questions that can never be answered. Deal with the small things first