If I don't control my thoughts how can I take full responsibility for my life?

[Tanz]

Easy, take full responsibility regardless of whether or not you control your thoughts.  

[Nemo28]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

Right on, that’s precisely the point. A perspective is a perspective, awareness is aware of perspective. Perception is perception, consciousness is conscious of perception.Thought is thought, ’made of ’ infinite intelligence, awareness, consciousness... and infinite, unlimited being.

It begins to sound like there are parts, pieces.

The trinity comes to mind. The father, the son, & the Holy Ghost. You’re the son in this interpretation, God is the father, and ‘reality’ - thought, perception, sensation – is the Holy Ghost.

If indeed there are not three, nor two, but One - then being, an infinite being, must indeed be The All That Is.  

 

You could say, you are already seeing and saying that you are detached from the thing you’re experiencing. Aware of it. Then, that no separation can be found. The ‘problem’ is, “I can’t possibly be that awesome.” You are though. There is no nonexistence. You so Are. 

Okay is it alright to say that I am nothing or awareness (since I can always detach from the thing observed) yet I am ME the person, a particular human being with face but you could also say I am that flower I see on my table, but the only difference is the relationship I have with "things" (like me and flower) where being a person involves to be sensitive to "external environment" that affects particular body (like an injury) but me being a flower or other human beings doesnt involve being sensitive to their pain, im just wondering if there is conflict in me experiencing sort of separateness from other creatures while I am being Me, or is it just that my idea of separation is wrong in itself, why would i feel separate, is it just  my thoughts who are insisting on being separate and isolated? What is wrong in me being Me and You being You, why would I think there is separation, just because i cant feel it when you cut your finger would this means I am separate from you, or is it just my thoughts? What do you think ? (I feel like i went into some self talk, sorry for that ) 

[LastThursday]

18 hours ago, Bill W said:

Thoughts are often not a problem until you act on them or respond to them.

Just an observation: Where does thought end and action begin? Could it be in the boundary between the two that our sense of control and free will lies?

But could it also be that thought and action have the same source and are therefore related siblings, but one doesn't cause the other? In which case our free will and control must also spring from the original source (like a third sibling)?

[Nahm]

@Nemo28 I’d look at that, and say what here is not a thought, not a perspective? What remains? 

[Nemo28]

55 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Nemo28 I’d look at that, and say what here is not a thought, not a perspective? What remains? 

awareness of my experience (since Im not aware of your experience, im limited only to mine)  ?

[Nahm]

30 minutes ago, Nemo28 said:

awareness of my experience

What discernible separations remain there? ⬆️

[Nemo28]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

What discernible separations remain there? ⬆️

Well in the awareness you could say we are One. But the separation exists in senses. Devoid of all my senses we are One being i guess. But i find (the thought finds) just being aware is rather uninteresting, dissatisfying state, I feel there must be more, hence the seeking.

[Nahm]

@Nemo28 Indeed. What is this separation which exists in the sense?

[Nemo28]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

@Nemo28 Indeed. What is this separation which exists in the sense?

Firstly its a thought that says "I am separate (cause I have this body which is different from yours and what happens to yours will not affect mine, so it is reasoned that we are separate), then there is thought  "I cant (dont want)  connect with others thus I feel isolated, etc.." then its feeling of not being connected with others (but its been realized that i dont really like to form relationships with other humans so this separations feeling I recon is more psychological issue for me rather than spiritual. Okay so you could say all this feeling of separation is caused by my past events (unhappy childhood). So maybe if i had happy one I wouldnt feel this separation, since its all derived from memory (so thought). So i wonder if i would be able to create great relationships with other people would i still say im feeling separate ? But forming relationships are not my thing, im very bored with people, disinterested and i feel no need for friends as it is seen they are permanent, changing and ultimately dissatisfying, so im seeking something more satisfying that would fulfill me, i just cant see value in sustaining human relationships, in the past i was bothered by it but now I truly dont care its as if no one exists except me, so there is no need to seek other. Yet I still crave for deep relationship, something that is genuine and unconditional, I still have yet to find that "Thing".. (sorry again some self -talk  ) What you think ?

[Nahm]

@Nemo28 

The past, is actually - thought - which you are directly aware of now, yes? 

As in, a memory, is thought, which you are directly aware of now, yes?

The future, relationships, how they might or might not go, is also thought, which you are directly aware of now, yes?

[Nemo28]

@Nahm yes, it's all thought. 

[Nahm]

@Nemo28 Nothin “in between” right? No middle man, no connector...direct awareness of thought - no separation at all...?

[Nemo28]

5 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Nemo28 Nothin “in between” right? No middle man, no connector...direct awareness of thought - no separation at all...?

Well if you ignore all thoughts and just stay as an awareness then yes, the problem(question) of separation doesn't occur (I guess dogs don't engage in such inquiries of whether they are separate or not, since they're just being all the time :D) Would you say if I stay in this being (awareness) mode for prolonged time, it wouldn't feel dissatisfying, I guess I already know the answer haha. So it would be wise to drop all the questions huh? 

[Nahm]

@Nemo28 Imo the more questions the better. It’s expediting. I’m not suggesting doing or not doing anything with the thoughts. Pointing to no separation. There’s no separation, direct “awareness of”, but not a separate thing or object (thought). So for example, no thought could really actually hurt you, because there is already no separation. Then examine in the same manor of direct experience...direct without separation...sensation, and perception. Not experience of, but, direct experience. 

 

[Angelite]

On 11/12/2019 at 6:51 AM, jj40 said:

I would really like some help with this one. A few days ago I realized while meditating that I had absolutely zero control over the thoughts popping up in my mind. It was a scary realization at first but I managed to let it go briefly... However I have heard Leo talk about how you must take full responsibility for your life and this really inspired me to make serious development and progress in my life. But if I am not in control of my thoughts at all and these thoughts essentially shape the kind of life I create then how can I take full responsibility for my life? Am I in control of the thoughts I decide to give attention too and act upon those or is that simply another thought I am not in control of? If I have no free will at all then I'm not in control of anything including what I do? Really would love to hear anyone who has experienced something like this it was very strange feeling when I realized for a small space of time I wasn't in any control of my thoughts.

Your thoughts came from your external inputs. So be mindful of where you let yourself go or see or listen to. 

[Nemo28]

11 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Nemo28 Imo the more questions the better. It’s expediting. I’m not suggesting doing or not doing anything with the thoughts. Pointing to no separation. There’s no separation, direct “awareness of”, but not a separate thing or object (thought). So for example, no thought could really actually hurt you, because there is already no separation. Then examine in the same manor of direct experience...direct without separation...sensation, and perception. Not experience of, but, direct experience. 

 

Well this direct "awareness" does feel kinda like separation from thoughts, objects, sensations all the things you can externalize. But you could say its like a container that contains all the external stuff. Dont you think this direct "awareness" is both separation and no-separation, i kinda feel it depends on point of view to say what it is. 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Nemo28 said:

Well this direct "awareness" does feel kinda like separation from thoughts, objects, sensations all the things you can externalize. But you could say its like a container that contains all the external stuff. Dont you think this direct "awareness" is both separation and no-separation, i kinda feel it depends on point of view to say what it is. 

‘Externalizing’ is the implication of thought, rather than an actuality. A container that contains external stuff is also a thought. Separation & no-separation is thought, duality. It can not depend on point of view to say what “it” is, as point of view is another thought, as is dependence. Thought content or implication is sneaky.

[Nemo28]

@Nahm so how do I know my direct awareness is not just another thought? Maybe everything is thought and there is nothing else, maybe the awareness as something distinct doesn't exist, since it's just a thought. 

[Nahm]

@Nemo28

“How do I know ‘my direct awareness’ is not just another thought?”

Are you aware of that thought, or not?

”Maybe everything is thought and there is nothing else”.

Are you aware of that thought, or not?

”Maybe the awareness as something distinct doesn’t exist, since it’s just a thought”

Are you aware of that thought, or not?

[Nahm]

On 11/11/2019 at 5:51 PM, jj40 said:

I would really like some help with this one. A few days ago I realized while meditating that I had absolutely zero control over the thoughts popping up in my mind. It was a scary realization at first but I managed to let it go briefly... However I have heard Leo talk about how you must take full responsibility for your life and this really inspired me to make serious development and progress in my life. But if I am not in control of my thoughts at all and these thoughts essentially shape the kind of life I create then how can I take full responsibility for my life? Am I in control of the thoughts I decide to give attention too and act upon those or is that simply another thought I am not in control of? If I have no free will at all then I'm not in control of anything including what I do? Really would love to hear anyone who has experienced something like this it was very strange feeling when I realized for a small space of time I wasn't in any control of my thoughts.

“I’m not in control of my thoughts” is just another thought. You can believe it, or not believe it.

Establish what you want, what you really, actually, want.

Then notice how a thought resistant to that, feels. 

Notice how a thought aligned with that, feels.

We aren’t ‘made’ to ruminate.

We’re creating. 

Don’t talk about the cards all night. Use them to play poker.