We eat our colds ?

[Nickyy]

@remember Of course, organic is not more nutritious, but that's one of the many claims "raw foodists" like to make, they falsely mislead people by arguing that because conventional crops are only grown on nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium, that this somehow makes the crop less nutritious. Not so. As we can see. There is also the claim from raw foodist that organic is less toxic because it's not treated with pesticides. Which they imagine gives credence to their "juicing" practices. Well, if you actually look at the chemicals that go into sustaining organic agriculture you will see that it's not entirely toxin free, or even safe. Organic crops are even sprayed twice as much as conventuonal crops because of the low efficacy of some of these organic chemicals. 

I posted the paper about rotenone inducing Parkinson's disease to show that just because something is natural doesn't mean it isn't harmful.

Glyphosate isnt used everywhere though. It's banned in most of the EU. Germany are in the process of getting rid of it right now because of the evidence presented by anti GMO scientist's.  Glyphosate even gets into organic crops. 

 

 

[Nickyy]

@remember My main point with all this is to try to show that these two raw food cult leaders, John Rose and Robert Morse aren't really 2nd tier transcendent cutting edge health experts.

They are charlatans who are either bat shit crazy or just deceptive. I wouldnt like to guess where these two are on the spiral (blue?) but just because a person rejects mainstream knowledge and adopts what looks like a multitude of different ideas, doesn't make them 2nd tier thinkers, helalers.They haven't even mastered orange rationality, so this skill isn't even available to them yet. There is a big difference between pre and trans rational, and you can spot it by looking to see how competent a person is at thinking logically.

These two guys, Rose and Morse, are obviously just fantasists, and they regurgitate community ideas while adding their own spin in order to stand out and create a cult following. Gotta have an angle, gotta create a problem ("allopathic medicine") and then offer a personal solution to the public that addresses the imagined problem so that they can gain a following. Most people are at blue, so we're easy to con.  Consumerism is just one big cultural hypnosis anyway, we as a species are primed for this. The internet is just another way to reach out to people and play on their desperation in tough times. None of this is concious, that's why so many believe these people, because they believe it themselves. Although I think Morse is knowingly misleading people, but he's so deluded by his own bullshit that he's fallen for it and has ended up lying even to himself. 

Edited November 15, 2019 by Nickyy

[DrewNows]

@Nickyy cute critique videos  
 

I did watch most of them a while back when addressing my concerns as well.
 

There was a short few week span I made the “mistake” of jumping on board the Morse bandwagon, taking focus away from my body and only listening to the mind. This led to some learning experiences and necessary self reflections. I don’t advocate anyone to believe anything anyone else says but to reflect upon, test, challenge and prove claims that have been made. Choosing a belief does not serve your truth if it’s grounded in only the opinions of others 

also consider the agenda of those creating these critique videos, not to say they are wrong for making them but why, maybe they are threatened by the sort of information they perceive, or see opportunity to exploit, but anyways, the John rose one is amusing. He sure is a bit of a quack, I think he knows it and I like him  

I recommend reading prof Arnold ehrets  mucusless diet healing system (annotated, revised and edited by prof. Spira). It is a short credible, powerfully reflective look at some very compelling arguments for this modality of health/vitality. He lived back in the late 1800s to early 1900s. 

i believe he is a mentor of Morse’s 

 

 

[Nickyy]

41 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Nickyy cute critique videos  
 

I did watch most of them a while back when addressing my concerns as well.
 

There was a short few week span I made the “mistake” of jumping on board the Morse bandwagon, taking focus away from my body and only listening to the mind. This led to some learning experiences and necessary self reflections. I don’t advocate anyone to believe anything anyone else says but to reflect upon, test, challenge and prove claims that have been made. Choosing a belief does not serve your truth if it’s grounded in only the opinions of others 

also consider the agenda of those creating these critique videos, not to say they are wrong for making them but why, maybe they are threatened by the sort of information they perceive, or see opportunity to exploit, but anyways, the John rose one is amusing. He sure is a bit of a quack, I think he knows it and I like him  

I recommend reading prof Arnold ehrets  mucusless diet healing system (annotated, revised and edited by prof. Spira). It is a short credible, powerfully reflective look at some very compelling arguments for this modality of health/vitality. He lived back in the late 1800s to early 1900s. 

i believe he is a mentor of Morse’s 

 

 

Ok. So would you be able to write a critique of the person who did the critique of morse and rose?

If that guy has an agenda, surely you are able to point it out so that you can expose his inconsistency?

The guy was gracious enough to spend his time pointing out the many inconsistencies of morse and John rose.

So the onus is on you to back your claim with evidence. 

 

[DrewNows]

6 hours ago, Nickyy said:

If that guy has an agenda, surely you are able to point it out so that you can expose his inconsistency

IF that guy has an agenda? You serious mate? I’m following my body, not judging others, he may feel like he’s doing the right thing, good for him but he hasn’t even tried any fasting or personally spoken to people who have cured themselves. 
 

6 hours ago, Nickyy said:

The guy was gracious enough to spend his time pointing out the many inconsistencies of morse and John rose

Sure he’s good at looking for the surface level issues he sees but this doesn’t mean shit and it isn’t hard. It’s about verifying looking for the causes, look to dr Morse mentor if you’re so skeptical and unwilling to test for yourself.  
 

6 hours ago, Nickyy said:

So the onus is on you to back your claim with evidence. 

Sorry fam I don’t have to prove anything to anyone but myself, I’m not interested in playing your ego games 

[Nickyy]

31 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

IF that guy has an agenda? You serious mate? I’m following my body, not judging others, he may feel like he’s doing the right thing, good for him but he hasn’t even tried any fasting or personally spoken to people who have cured themselves. 
 

 

8 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@Nickyy  

also consider the agenda of those creating these critique videos, not to say they are wrong for making them but why, maybe they are threatened by the sort of information they perceive,

You stated clearly here that Addicted To Ignorance may feel "threatened", and you make a suggestion to consider the "agenda" of anyone creating a critique video.

So what is his agenda? You mentioned an agenda, so it's upto you to tell us what you think the agenda is, and uncover it, otherwise what you're saying just sounds, well, a little manipulative.

You're attmempting to present to us a viewpoint, but have no reasonable grounds for it. 

So that is actually a tactic of persuasion and something Morse and Rose have done on numerous occasions and we know this because they have been caught lying on their videos.

37 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

Sorry fam I don’t have to prove anything to anyone but myself, I’m not interested in playing your ego games 

If you want to be taken seriously then you do indeed have to provide facts supporting your statements. Otherwise you're just wasting your time here. This is not an ego game, it's how facts are established. 

[Nickyy]

41 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

 but he hasn’t even tried any fasting or personally spoken to people who have cured themselves. 

Have you spoken to anyone who has "cured" themselves?

If so, how did you establish that their disease was cured by Robert Morse or John Rose?

 

[Nickyy]

8 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@Nickyy
Choosing a belief does not serve your truth if it’s grounded in only the opinions of others 

 

8 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@Nickyy 

There was a short few week span I made the “mistake” of jumping on board the Morse bandwagon, taking focus away from my body and only listening to the mind.

Tell me, how did you come to understand all the information about the lymphatic system and other medical information you have shared in this discussion? 

8 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@Nickyy 

I recommend reading prof Arnold ehrets  mucusless diet healing system (annotated, revised and edited by prof. Spira).

So what if Ehret was also a quack? Did you take the time to fact check Erhet? What makes Erhet so special ? 

[DrewNows]

3 hours ago, Nickyy said:

 

Tell me, how did you come to understand all the information about the lymphatic system and other medical information you have shared in this discussion? 
Many hours of learning, reflecting, contemplating and observing. Not complicated but even with all the respect and trust I hold for Morse, he’s not someone who claims to know everything. He’s very humble and open to being wrong. The dots connected for me, if they don’t for you then move along. Maybe later on it will click  
So what if Ehret was also a quack? Did you take the time to fact check Erhet? What makes Erhet so special ? 

It’s not that I believe him but that I believe my own body and what I’ve learned this far, not to mention all the stories I’ve heard about detox healing. Ehret went against the grain, he took responsibility and stopped following doctors orders, then he dedicated his life to learning how he had been cured and how others could do the same. 

 

[Nickyy]

9 hours ago, DrewNows said:

 

You're not really answering my questions. You're giving me your opinion. You're not using orange level skills that are expected of you. In a discussion about health especially making statements of fact need to be backed by logic and evidence. This is common practice if you want to be taken seriously.

Merely saying things like "listen via the body" means nothing. People want to know how you formed your conclusions. We're your conclusions formed from thorough understanding of facts or were they formed by believing an opinion? What are your reasons for adopting an almost word for word belief system to Morse's teachings? 

[Nickyy]

@DrewNows What stories have you heard about "healing"? 

Addicted to ignorance posted several videos pointing out the unreliable nature of testimonials. I myself even left comments of my own healing journey on one of this channels, a completely fabricated story of healing myself from cancer via doctor Morse's methods , and I got many replies. ?

How do you know if these people are interpreting their experience accurately? Diseases can go into remission naturally. People may have had conventional treatment and then accredited their results to their diet and an alternative method that they used. Some people may have felt better for a while, wrote a comment or left a testimonial, but because we don't have any way of following them up we don't know if they made it or not. That's why we have the scientific method, so that we can know for sure what caused the remission and rule out any confounding variables. None of that is used in alternative medicine, so to just believe a story on the internet is saying "I haven't passed through orange yet - and I'm deceiving myself and you that Im more developed ".

 

[mandyjw]

On 11/14/2019 at 10:33 PM, remember said:

this argument is so hollow - why should there be a nutritional difference? it`s about toxins intake all the way, toxins like round up for example - what`s not good for the bees can`t be good for other beings. bon apetit.

there could be labels organic farmers voluntarily are assign to which regulate what is allowed to be used in organic farming - if no one controls that control it yourself to gain more trust - that´s all i can say about that.

If you want to take it one step further, food has nutritional value beyond the nutrients we know are important to measure and the soil food is grown in is very important. Soil health itself should be one of our biggest focuses, depleted soil won't grow as nutritious food and healthy soil. We also eat a very limited number of species. If you want to have the ultimate healthy diet, you have to spend your days foraging for a huge variety of species grown in undisturbed soil. Having time to have a good balanced life is a luxury of modern times and we have to make some trade offs in health and nutrition to achieve this. 

Beliefs about food and how they vary in different people is an amazing thing to observe. We truly create our reality and that's why no one's perspectives and experiences are ever going to line up quite right unless they are closely following someone else's rules. 

[remember]

in germany we didn`t have an organic label for a long time and then we got one and it`s a really good one, although the european organic label is compared to that really not that good because it allows up to 30% non organic ingredients - therefore we have some really good alternative organisation like demeter who are even going a step deeper in the biodynamic production. and there are producers who are known for their strict rule alignment. so for the us it`s all a matter of how producers connect and organize themselfs. for example a supermarket can control what kind of products they want to provide and they could also set up rules if they are in enough power to do so. there could be year plans to eliminate certain factors from the soil or to only dry fruit under certain temperature etc. in fife years the whole product line would look completely different. although it is a lot of work to then really controll what the producers are doing and if the quality is sufficient.

detoxing soil sometimes means eliminating soil from the surface, growing special plants on the soil that take out some toxins etc. what to do wit these plants then, well i don`t know yet, maybe burning and then compressing it and storing it somewhere deep down in the earth to be found again in centuries - whatever.

Edited November 16, 2019 by remember

[remember]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:00 AM, Nickyy said:

They are charlatans who are either bat shit crazy or just deceptive. I wouldnt like to guess where these two are on the spiral (blue?) but just because a person rejects mainstream knowledge and adopts what looks like a multitude of different ideas, doesn't make them 2nd tier thinkers, helalers.They haven't even mastered orange rationality, so this skill isn't even available to them yet. There is a big difference between pre and trans rational, and you can spot it by looking to see how competent a person is at thinking logically.

These two guys, Rose and Morse, are obviously just fantasists, and they regurgitate community ideas while adding their own spin in order to stand out and create a cult following. Gotta have an angle, gotta create a problem ("allopathic medicine") and then offer a personal solution to the public that addresses the imagined problem so that they can gain a following. Most people are at blue, so we're easy to con.  Consumerism is just one big cultural hypnosis anyway, we as a species are primed for this. The internet is just another way to reach out to people and play on their desperation in tough times. None of this is concious, that's why so many believe these people, because they believe it themselves. Although I think Morse is knowingly misleading people, but he's so deluded by his own bullshit that he's fallen for it and has ended up lying even to himself. 

even though i don`t know enough about morse, i grew up in a health business for preventive medicine, much of it still alopathic because of the health system and i developed some understanding about different approaches so i also see how self biased you are. i`ve seen people heal better because of food changes than of anything else. and i have my own experience with going vegan and raw food because of allopathic medicin that made me more sick. for me it`s significant, that`s why i say even though of course staying sceptical and not buying into everything but rather testing it (i`m a testimonial of testimonials in that sense, of course for you that is no argument as you can`t prove my reliability because i`m a quack).

also there is maybe not a difference in the vitamin and mineral quality of conventional vs organic food (except for the extra how mandy described it so accurately) but there is a massive difference between heated (processed) and non heated foods, there are growth substances in plants you don`t even know how and if the body absorbs it, because it`s not mesurable - except maybe if you compare someone who gets their vitamins fresh to someone who gets all their vitamins out of a jar, there are also substances in food that are not measured in your quality test like secondary plant compounds, probably. but of course these maybe don`t have anything to do with organic or non organic - except that organic sometimes chooses old plant strains which contain different ones. also the quantity of any vitamin doesn`t say anything about its quality. so even your arguments are creating suspicion, because you are a quack as well with not enough experience. i don`t say organic is always clean and everything is fine with it and yes of course you can find glyphosat in organic food if the neighbor uses it - but i guess the neighbors food contains much more of it then, and usually they don`t write it next to the description of what you buy if glyphosat was used on it or not. i prefer the less contaminated before the one that is likely to be more contaminated. doesn`t mean that organic producers should look into alternatives if there are unhealthy substances in their bug control repertoir.

Edited November 16, 2019 by remember

[Nickyy]

5 minutes ago, remember said:

even though i don`t know enough about morse, i grew up in a health business for preventive medicine, much of it still alopathic because of the health system and i developed some understanding about different approaches so i also see how self biased you are. i`ve seen people heal better because of food changes than of anything else. and i have my own experience with going vegan and raw food because of allopathic medicin that made me more sick.

I agree that changing diet works. I posted a link to a YouTube site called "Mastering Diabetes" who are two guys, one with a PhD, who eat nothing but raw fruits. They take in between 500-700 grams of carbohydrates per day and need hardly any insulin.

So there is no doubt that fruit (enough fruit) works . 

I have no qualifications in allopathic medicine. The point I'm labouring is that people who create straw man arguments against the medical system using obvious faulty medical knowledge while selling supplements are quacks. People who show science and who are genuinely trying to help others and sell no supplements (like mastering diabetes) are scientists or genuine health coaches.

There is no good reason to use herbs at £1000 a pop to support the kidneys during filtration of the lymphatic system, because the reality is the lymph system doesn't drain it's waste products via the kindneys. That's not hidden knowledge , it's medical fact that anyone can look up for themselves.

11 minutes ago, remember said:

also there is maybe not a difference in the vitamin and mineral quality of conventional vs organic food (except for the extra how mandy described it so accurately) but there is a massive difference between heated (processed) and non heated foods, there are growth substances in plants you don`t even know how and if the body absorbs it, because it`s not mesurable - except maybe if you compare someone who gets their vitamins fresh to someone who gets all their vitamins out of a jar, there are also substances in food that are not measured in your quality test like secondary plant compounds, probably. but of course these maybe don`t have anything to do with organic or non organic - except that organic sometimes chooses old plant strains which contain different ones. also the quantity of any vitamin doesn`t say anything about its quality.

My actual argument is that even though there may well be unknowns in food and there is a difference between cooked food and raw foods, the point is in order to be authentic people must adopt a rational position and present actual science rather than an opinion or some pseudo science theory that is made up on the fly.

I just think it's just more genuine all round to not make statements of fact unless you have adequate evidence. 

You're right, allopathic medicine can make people worse, especially medications. But allopathic medicine is not entirely science based, it lags behind the latest research, there are lots of problems with it, it's riddled with politics and needs a good kick up the backside. But people need accurate information on how to go about tackling disease, not cult like dogmatism 

[remember]

27 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

I just think it's just more genuine all round to not make statements of fact unless you have adequate evidence. 

sometimes adequate evidence is only the testimonial. if i wouldn`t have crossread a lot of "inadequate" evidence i would never have been able to become a pain free person without allopathic medicine. of course what plays into the half knowledge is that i profit a lot of the half knowledge of others. but yes there are worse people around than dr morse.

the kidney has lymphs. if these lymphs contamine the whole system it`s probably not the best situation to start with.

Edited November 16, 2019 by remember

[Nickyy]

2 minutes ago, remember said:

sometimes adequate evidence is only the testimonial. if i wouldn`t have crossread a lot of "inadequate" evidence i would never have been able to become a pain free person without allopathic medicine. of course what plays into the half knowledge is that i profit a lot of the half knowledge of others. but yes there are worse people around than dr morse.

You're free to say "hey look, I started eating large quantities of fruit and it worked for me".

But to trash allopathic medicine and cancer surgery off the back of reading Arnold Erhet and selling extremely expensive herbs to gullible desperate people is not 2nd tier thinking.

This is the point I'm making . 2nd tier would never act in these unethical ways. Trans rational is not the same as pre rational. It doesn't matter how much bullshit spirituality you regurgitate, if your behaviour isn't ethical then you're not a good role model 

[remember]

9 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

You're free to say "hey look, I started eating large quantities of fruit and it worked for me".

But to trash allopathic medicine and cancer surgery off the back of reading Arnold Erhet and selling extremely expensive herbs to gullible desperate people is not 2nd tier thinking.

This is the point I'm making . 2nd tier would never act in these unethical ways. Trans rational is not the same as pre rational. It doesn't matter how much bullshit spirituality you regurgitate, if your behaviour isn't ethical then you're not a good role model 

about the cancer medicine as i said i would only try that if i had some time or if it was without hope. but well these areas are gray areas and i can`t say anything about their methods, i was highly critical of that if you want to read further up. we agree on that even though i don`t have the knowledge, should be some logical precaution to stay suspicious and go with what is scientiffically proven to work in a significant percentage of cases.

Edited November 16, 2019 by remember

[DrewNows]

@Nickyy the confusion and skepticism is all you, stop blaming me or my opinions for the lack of answers you aren’t willing to find. Science doesn’t have all the answers, I don’t have all your answers. I recommend stop writing off all the things that don’t yet make rational sense, take what you please, decide how far you’re willing to go and let those petty judgments go

What I’ve researched and learned was compelling enough to test out for myself, most of the people that do heal themselves are not so open to sharing due to the criticism and what not, even on the RM Facebook groups, but they do still sometimes share and help those who find themselves on a similar journey 

[Nickyy]

17 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Nickyy the confusion and skepticism is all you, stop blaming me or my opinions for the lack of answers you aren’t willing to find. Science doesn’t have all the answers, I don’t have all your answers. I recommend stop writing off all the things that don’t yet make rational sense, take what you please, decide how far you’re willing to go and let those petty judgments go

What I’ve researched and learned was compelling enough to test out for myself, most of the people that do heal themselves are not so open to sharing due to the criticism and what not, even on the RM Facebook groups, but they do still sometimes share and help those who find themselves on a similar journey 

You do know that what you're doing is called gaslighting?