Is awakening a gift of god or totally coincidental?

[Schahin]

I watched a video of Alan watts - you do not exist. 

There he says that any mystical experience is a gift of god /or higher self and no matter what you try if good doesn't want it or won't happen. 

Is that true? 

Does it mean all states of consciousness and even if I vibrate on a high frequency is never something I can achieve myself but only when my higher self had planned for me to have a mystical experience /vibrate higher. 

 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

There he says that any mystical experience is a gift of god /or higher self and no matter what you try if god doesn't want it or won't happen. 

Are there things you could do to increase your chances of being struck by lightening? You bethcha. . . During a lightening storm, you could climb to the top of a hill and hold up a metal rod. . . 

Are there things you can do to increase your chances of a mystical experience? You bethca. . . You can take a psychedelic. You can do a sensory deprivation tank. You can practice lucid dreaming. You can practice flow states of consciousness through playing music or sports. You can attend an Ayahuasca retreat. 

Regarding the "if god doesn't want it". You seem to have a framework that there is an internal person called "Schahin" in your head and an external thing called "god". Some type of external entity that wants or doesn't want things for the Schahin person. . . This is a common construct in religions and can be transcended. . . Imo, the belief in an external anthropomorphic god interferes with letting go, transcending the illusory self and having mystical experiences. . . If I believed an all-powerful space kangaroo was deciding whether or not I was allowed to have mystical experiences, it would be a distraction to actually having mystical experiences. 

[Nickyy]

37 minutes ago, Schahin said:

I watched a video of Alan watts - you do not exist. 

There he says that any mystical experience is a gift of god /or higher self and no matter what you try if good doesn't want it or won't happen. 

Is that true? 

Does it mean all states of consciousness and even if I vibrate on a high frequency is never something I can achieve myself but only when my higher self had planned for me to have a mystical experience /vibrate higher. 

 

It's a fancy way of saying that you need to be fairly developed in order to have these kinds of insights. Your development isn't really something that is in your control either, it just happens . You also got to be lucky and be enculturated into the right circumstances in order to even have a good chance. Then there is your physical and mental health which plays a certain role. And the again if you're too lucky and your extremely talented and gifted and happy with conventional life you might miss out on awakening all together. Some people have to suffer for years and that ripens them. 

 

[Ananta]

@Schahin My perspective is that you, as Schahin, are but an "aspect" of the totality. All things must mesh and work together, in what I would say is the dharma field (aka Isvara/God).

So, everything that happens or doesnt happen, is perfect and works perfectly regarding the physical and psychological laws/rules, karma, etc of all things. Only God could work out such a perfect plan. 

However, with that said, one must always think and do what is of highest value to them, as free will is equal to determinism. Meaning, there is no determinism without free will and vs versa, as time unfolds in the now.

So, awakening is and isn't a gift from God, depending how you see it. If you see that free will=determinism, then yes, it is. 

[cetus]

@Schahin As an ego all you can really do is prepare the fertile soil in which awakening can take foothold.

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

As an ego all you can really do is prepare the fertile soil in which awakening can take a foothold.

Ego composting. . . 

[cetus]

25 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Ego composting. . . 

The bigger the ego the more raw matter available to break down into micro nutrients. -Nothing goes to waste.

[VeganAwake]

Awakening occurs when you are so tired of your own shit(aka ego) you make illumination your top priority in life.

Turn Within, shed the layers!! ❤

[Nak Khid]

2 hours ago, Schahin said:

I watched a video of Alan watts - you do not exist. 

There he says that any mystical experience is a gift of god /or higher self and no matter what you try if god doesn't want it or won't happen. 

Is that true? 

Does it mean all states of consciousness and even if I vibrate on a high frequency is never something I can achieve myself but only when my higher self had planned for me to have a mystical experience /vibrate higher. 

 

Please quote exactly Alan Watts or list the video title so we can hear is exact words

This calls to mind two recent threads

_______________________________________

TOPIC

Please help me understand Alan Watts later years and death ...
My understanding is that Alan Watts became an alcoholic (along with his wife), and became quite depressed on his later years, dying of heart ...

___________________________________

I can no longer find this recent thread. Either it was deleted or is hidden if I am not mistaken,
Anyway my comment there was the effect was that Alan Watts was a great speaker and eloquent writer but he did not practice the spiritual disciplines  he spoke of  enough to escape dying at 58, stressed out and  attached to alcohol and cigarettes.
So we have to look at what he said as coming from a man who only practiced some of what he preached.
He called himself a "philosophical entertainer", I would add also a social critic.  He is one of the great orators of the 20th century in my opinion,  carved out his own niche and was gifted with a beautiful voice.
He did not dedicate to being a monk for at least several years to have the first hand experience to attribute being enlightened as per Zen and other traditions he spoke of
and then to call it something only certain people are born with or ordained by some force to have

 

However other thread is this other thread accounts for people who came, in part from outside of traditional methods
 

____________________________________________

This is my thread and it also includes  similar accounts on video of claimed enlightenment experiences of
Eckhart Tolle
Adyashanti
Mooji:
Rupert Spira
Sadhguru

Some of these are men who claim to have awakened of become enlightened spontaneously not even having studied spirituality or practiced it beforehand

So how can we know if they were actually enlightened or not? 

We cannot know, nor can we know if enlightenment is more than a feeling, behavior and proclamation.

What if a person has a sudden overwhelming feeling of oneness?
Are they enlightened?

Some of these famous speakers are perceived by huge numbers of people to have been enlightened yet some did not put in a monk-like dedication to practice.
Yet some monks have been dedicated to the practice and spiritual disciplines since having been children and many of them might not be interesting to listen to or be considered to be enlightened.

2 hours ago, Schahin said:

There he says that any mystical experience is a gift of god /or higher self and no matter what you try if good doesn't want it or won't happen. 

Is that true? 

Does it mean all states of consciousness and even if I vibrate on a high frequency is never something I can achieve myself but only when my higher self had planned for me to have a mystical experience /vibrate higher. 

 

 

It is wiser to not seek an answer to this question.  Continue to vibrate on your higher frequency.  Know one knows what may come to you
 mystical experiences do not only come to the enlightened but some of them are only interesting moments
not things to cling to
What counts is persistence and
compassion for the self and others
That is greater than mystical experiences

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Nak Khid

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, cetus56 said:

The bigger the ego the more raw matter available to break down into micro nutrients. -Nothing goes to waste.

Reminds me of Leo’s bullshit video when he recited dozens of mental constructs as bullshit. 

[Nahm]

Yes, it’s true, as the video says, ‘you do not exist’. With conditioning goes the illusion of not-mystical experience, and also of awakening. Unconditional isn’t deterministic. Spontaneously determine to go experience some mystical experiences! 

[pluto]

God is both.

[Schahin]

21 hours ago, Schahin said:

I watched a video of Alan watts - you do not exist. 

There he says that any mystical experience is a gift of god /or higher self and no matter what you try if good doesn't want it or won't happen. 

Is that true? 

Does it mean all states of consciousness and even if I vibrate on a high frequency is never something I can achieve myself but only when my higher self had planned for me to have a mystical experience /vibrate higher. 

 

Sure there is no external god, but as long as your avatar/human flesh ha not awoken and is not wary neither conscious of how reality unfolds (which even after awakening seems like a difficult thing to forecast or manipulate) nor do you have the capacity in this human flesh to create the beauty of life, therefore in my opinion it is like the trinity Christianity talks about that god is the father and the son. 

Yes you can do things to increase the chance of enlightening, awakening and mystical experiences. 

But the question is, is this a coincidental stumbling over a rock, like somehow you walk around and see a magic mushroom and eat it, or is it because the father (like above mentioned) saw it fit and right for you to awaken or have a mystical experience at that moment and out the magic mushroom intelligently right there in front of yourself/himself? 

For example you can hear about mediation, but if the father does not see it fit for you to awaken just yet, he(your higher self) will just make you not care about it and go instead to a football game and drink beer, you get what I mean? 

 

Edited November 9, 2019 by Schahin