Can You Prevent A Thought?

[Natasha]

6 minutes ago, Atom said:

Awe thanks @Natasha, youre going to make me cry.. 

As long as those are happy tears  Goodnite 

Edited June 4, 2016 by Natasha

[Atom]

3 minutes ago, Natasha said:

As long as those are happy tears  Goodnite 

They are? ?

[Nathalie]

@Ayla Just to make sure I didn't misinterprete what you suggested by  

19 hours ago, Ayla said:

The focus here must be on the experiencer of thoughts instead of the origin of thought

As long as you haven't begun spiritual work you should assume that the experiencer of thoughts is "you" as a person, as an certain intelligence or as a body, right?

I think we all have left this assumption behind us and feel that it isn't real.

So the experiencer whom you speak about is the consciousness that isn't personal at all, right?

If the focus must be done on the experiencer of thoughts, who or what can focus on it?

The experiencer can't focus on him self, right? Like an eye can't focus on itself or a flower on itself.. and so on..

So how can the experiencer be focused on? Through your egoic mind? Well.. how can this work, it would always be a limited point of view, what the ego is able to "see", that means it would say something like : no need to go there, there's nothing interesting and draw to a tangible thing..

 

It just seems to be another mind game..

 

So can it be that the experiencer just can be kind of "focused on" and releaved to himself through the world of appearances, and a part of his experiences are feeled, seen, tasted or what ever through the different bodies, animals, plants, planets etc? and every thing or person is just a means  to it.

So I could sum up that we are all a little part of this - that is much more a wholeness than an emptiness - and help the consciousness to reveal him/herself through us. In whitch the concept "we" is a fantasy, right?

 

 

 

 

[Ayla]

@MartineF , if you try to figure it out like that, with your mind, it IS a mind game. 

I was talking about direct experience. Find out what is perceived as real. Leave mind questions behind and stick with the FACTS. The only thing that is real, is the 5 senses. They come attached to thoughts/labeling which are also real, having a "neuronal" identity - in lack of a better term - attached to them. (what the thoughts are ABOUT, isn't real - for example, you cannot smell a flower. flower is a concept you attach to a certain form of matter)

Now what/who experiences the 5 senses and the thoughts, has to be identified through direct questioning. 

 

 

[Nathalie]

1 hour ago, Ayla said:

Now what/who experiences the 5 senses and the thoughts, has to be identified through direct questioning. 

yes, now I think, we come to the same point

What I just didn't get is : the assessment "there is no I"

But on a mind level of course there is one, it's even really complicated to start a communication without this concept, right?

It's the actual consciousness that has no "I" so to speak: everything is, changes, takes form, or not, in a blink of an eye with absolutly none importance for anything, except experiencing.. And this conceptual "I" just can let it happen, as open and resistanceless as possible..

Can it be put like this?

Hope I don't bother you..

Edited June 4, 2016 by MartineF

[Ayla]

3 minutes ago, MartineF said:

It's the actual consciousness that has no "I" so to speak everything is, changes, take form, or not, in a blink of an eye with absolutly none importance for nothing except experiencing.. And this conceptual "I" just can let it happen, as open and resistanceless as possible..

 

 Still sounds to me that there's some kind of a "central focus point" ( I ) that can or cannot do, allows or doesn't allow... I perceive some type of a resistance still there. ( "let it happen" ) 

The "I' IS the happening in different shapes and forms we humans like to label as... a bee, a tree, a hand, etc. These things DO exist, but not in the conceptual frame we like to put them so that they fit our definition. This is also the case with "I" we have a definition of it and we stick to it instead of seeing that a definition is just a way of explaining a word through other words. That is why, the only way to see through the "I" is to get rid of all concepts and only look at the experience. 

[step1]

This is a great thread