How much fruits and vegetables per day?

[Nickyy]

@MartinMaggio Please post all you have. This is very interesting 

[DrewNows]

@Rasheed I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish but what I see is operation from a fear based mentality. This is what you might like to work on rather than adopting the right beliefs. The questions you ask make it seem as if you aren’t willing to listen to your body and go from intuition rather than beliefs. If you came across Immediate danger would you first analyze the situation or would instincts guide your survival? 

[MartinMaggio]

4 hours ago, Rasheed said:

@MartinMaggio  What's your opinion about acidic-alkaline and ph? Eating lot of meat, and not enough vegetables, puts body in acidic state, what do you think about that?

One of the most common health myths is that we have to “alkalize” with green juice, multi-level marketing products and fasting.

Those things throw off the body’s ability to balance the pH of the various tissues. Alkalinity exists as a secondary system and as a buffer.

What really cleanses the body are acids.

“An acid medium is unfavorable to the growth of most bacteria and acids generally possess considerable disinfectant power” (A Dictionary of Applied Chemistry, 1921). Pathogenic bacteria thrive in an alkaline environment.

Alkalanity increases scar tissue formation, vascular sclerosis, shrinks the thymus gland and the spleen, and exacerbates the cortisol response. Chronic alkalosis is often caused by excessive stress, serotonin and lactic acid.

Increasing cellular respiration is the focus to reverse excessive intracellular alkalinity. This can be achieved by limiting omega-3 consumption as much as possible and consuming carbohydrates frequently, protein from animal tissues and saturated fat.

Furthermore : Besides mucus, one of the biggest myths perpetuated by the misinformed public is regarding acidity and alkalinity.

Blogs, memes and documentaries have convinced us that meat and dairy creates excessive acid, mucus and opens the door to parasitic infection.

All of that couldn’t be further from the truth and, in most cases, is the exact opposite.

Meat is the highest source of phosphorus which is converted into dihydrogen phosphate, one of the most powerful buffers that can give or take hydrogen ions. Amino acids (protein) can also donate or accept hydrogen ions.

 The body has various buffering systems for dealing with excessive acids. The main systems are the bicarbonate system, the phosphate system and the protein system.

The pancreas is the organ responsible for storing bicarbonate ions and releasing those as needed to maintain homeostasis. 

A stressed cell is an alkaline one which is starving for oxygen due to PUFA (Polyunsaturated fats)  poisoning.

The cell starving for oxygen carries protons out of the cell in a desperate attempt to generate energy.

The conversion of pyruvic acid to lactic acid increases. This is the hallmark of cancer.

A healthy cell is slightly acidic when sufficient carbon dioxide is present from adequate carbohydrate, strong protein, and saturated fat consumption.

The body’s first line of defense against pathogens of all kinds (yeast, bacteria, parasites) is stomach acid.

Protein stimulates the release of hydrochloric acid. If protein is inadequate, or there is a copious amount of protease inhibitors (ubiquitous in nuts and seeds with PUFA) then that triggering mechanism will be weak.

When there is a lack of HCL from protein deficiency, food stays in the stomach for longer than it should.

Carbohydrates ferment, proteins putrefy and fats go rancid (lipid peroxidation gets a jumpstart).

When we were younger we had a high metabolic rate and lots of stomach acid. We had lots of energy, we healed quickly and could eat lots of food with no issues.

As we age and polyunsaturated fat consumption increases, stress increases and protein consumption decreases, our hydrochloric acid level goes down. Dr Jonathan Wright found that our stomach acid levels decline from age 20 and tank to nearly nothing at about the age of 70.

Diseases where the root cause can be low stomach acid include: insomnia, arthritis, osteoporosis, acne, allergies, asthma, depression and all gastrointestinal disorders.

If we aren’t consuming protein from muscle meats and bone broth then the doors are wide open for infections of all kinds, not just worms.

I would emphasize the importance of choosing grass-fed beef over grain-fed, simply for the fact that their immune systems will be stronger eating a biologically appropriate diet: grass.

[MartinMaggio]

4 hours ago, Rasheed said:

@MartinMaggio There are vegan athletes too...and What about spiritual people, yogis, who do not eat meat, and they eat mostly raw vegetables?

Yes as I mentioned above, there is no doubt that you can SURVIVE on a vegan diet, there are no doubts about that- Our bodies are so incredible that it can survive on most fuel. 

But this question and thread isn't about SURVIVAL is about MAXIMIZING your biological machine's OUTPUTS and performance WHILST EXTENDING the Lifespan  of it's individual parts and the whole system 

Imagine what those athletes, yogis and spiritual people could achieve if they maximized their nutrition and energy levels (How would you know?)

I think most spiritual people don't consume meats because of moral/ethical/spiritual reasons, not so much because of how they feel or how these foods make them feel PHYSIOLOGICALLY 

What Im proposing is very rare and not many people eat like this. Most people do ONE thing right and 23 wrong and blame the wrong variable for the result.

Are people consuming the best possible source of animal products and cook them with the right fats ? I would put all my money that most people who blame meat aren't following the key variables im mentioning here. 

If you eat RAW vegetables from a highly controlled (Wild is not necessarily good anymore due to our atmosphere being totally fucked)  environment where no acid rain was sprinkled and no NPK fertilizer was used - Vegetables can be beneficial - GOOD LUCK FINDING THIS. 

 

[MartinMaggio]

5 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@MartinMaggio how frequent are your bowel movements? Do you have bad body odor? Have you explored raw vegan and detoxification? I suspect your solution is only short term beneficial 

 

I have usually 1 big bowel movement in the mornings- My stool has been prettier than ever- Could post pics upon request

Yes I've experienced with Raw veganism, Fruitarianism and a bunch of detox protocols im truly an experimenter with no fucks given to defend any school of thought- I care about results 

Fruit is a miracle ! is an amazing fuel source, but you must find the fruit which is properly grown and combine it with quality saturated fat and protein-

Can't Thrive out of consuming only 1 MACRONUTRIENT GROUP 

What makes you think the solution is only short term beneficial ?

You don't even know what I do on my protocol if  im honest.

just curious how you come to this conclusion?

do you know how long I've been on the journey ?

Just curious on your thought process. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by MartinMaggio

[MartinMaggio]

4 hours ago, Nickyy said:

@MartinMaggio Please post all you have. This is very interesting 

Sure here you go  : 
http://therdsf.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/shilijitNEW-1.pdf

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/289163756_Fullerene-DBP_conjugates_Their_co-occurrence_in_meteorites_ammonites_and_Shilajit_and_application_in_systemic_drug_delivery

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609271/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3758058/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139983/

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12012-014-9245-3

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288266508_Shilajit_in_management_of_iron_deficiency_anaemia

 

[DrewNows]

1 hour ago, MartinMaggio said:

Yes I've experienced with Raw veganism, Fruitarianism and a bunch of detox protocols im truly an experimenter with no fucks given to defend any school of thought- I care about results 

okay well what's your goal and current protocol? What was the purpose of going raw vegan and are you familiar with Robert Morse and Arnold Ehret? I consider Morse to be yellow/turq understanding of the human body as a system and how it functions. What are you thoughts on the lymphatic system? 

1 hour ago, MartinMaggio said:

Fruit is a miracle ! is an amazing fuel source, but you must find the fruit which is properly grown and combine it with quality saturated fat and protein-

Can't Thrive out of consuming only 1 MACRONUTRIENT GROUP 

We don't need any fuel source. What if the consumption of fruit is merely for aiding in the regenerative process of our incredible regenerative body by proper cellular hydration? What if we could get our fuel from any and every form of energy, including sun light? Breatharians by nature with the loss of our main sense. 

1 hour ago, MartinMaggio said:

What makes you think the solution is only short term beneficial ?

 Because all solutions are and understanding ourselves is an ongoing process imo but are you familiar with john rose and his cooked/live foods understanding? 

1 hour ago, MartinMaggio said:

do you know how long I've been on the journey ?

Just curious on your thought process. 

Well i gave a response based off similar stories and reflections i've heard about, i don't know how long or why you have been on search for the perfect diet but i am curious how well you understand how the human body functions systemically as robert morse loves to explain 

 

 

 

Edited November 8, 2019 by DrewNows

[Nickyy]

@MartinMaggio Thats great. Many thanks ?

[Nickyy]

5 hours ago, DrewNows said:

We don't need any fuel source. What if the consumption of fruit is merely for aiding in the regenerative process of our incredible regenerative body by proper cellular hydration? What if we could get our fuel from any and every form of energy, including sun light? Breatharians by nature with the loss of our main sense.  

 don't try this a home tho, eh? 

Please 

The internet is a wonderful thing, but it's also a place where imaginations are allowed to run wild 

[remember]

@MartinMaggio i bet you lie 50% of what you say, half of it you lie to yourself - you where probably overweight already when you where vegan and i would want to know what exactly you where eating. especially the alkaline thing is such a joke i have my own experience with - the bladder is the most alcaloid part of the body and urine is maybe the only product of the body which is almost bacteria free there is a medication against bladder infection that makes urine more acidic and in most cases it actually makes it worse, not holdable your theory. have fun with your cholesterol problems when you age just have enough good surgeons at hand.

you are part of the misinformed public, get aware of that.

we all know that there are some sideffects with veganism if we don`t supplement vit b12 for example - and no one said a vegan diet is easy. but that`s what the brain was made for to figure out, in the long term. the shortterm meat based diet may bring better results but may not be your longterm friends.

Edited November 8, 2019 by remember

[Rasheed]

12 hours ago, DrewNows said:

@Rasheed I’m not sure what you’re trying to accomplish but what I see is operation from a fear based mentality. This is what you might like to work on rather than adopting the right beliefs. The questions you ask make it seem as if you aren’t willing to listen to your body and go from intuition rather than beliefs. If you came across Immediate danger would you first analyze the situation or would instincts guide your survival? 

Thank you. Very eye opening.@MartinMaggio whar's your opinion about dr. Sebi's work?

[Michael569]

@RasheedI think you need to educate yourself on different foods, nutrients and some basic biochemistry. You seem to have very uncertain opinions on lots of things and asking here will create even more confusion. 

Go to a large book store and grab a generic unbiased book on human nutrition. Nothing to do with paleao, vegan, raw or any other agenda. Pure basic dry academic textbook and start reading. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Michael569

[Michael569]

16 hours ago, MartinMaggio said:

Here some pictures of my personal journey from vegan and confused to finding what im proposing above- 

Im only posting this because people are biased towards results 

I am sorry but this is completely anecdotal evidence. First of all lets presume that all of those are indeed you. None of these pictures tell us anything about your health and about the type of vegan diets you had. Oreo and mentos are vegan as well as well as fried mockmeat and dairy free icecream. Having s six pack does NOT equal to being healthy. A slightly chubby person may actually be healthier than an athlete who lives of high protein diet and has an undiagnosed kidney impairment. 

By saying things like limit your vegetables, I am getting a lot of red flags. What is he going to eat? If vegetables are toxic it means all plants are because most of the crops is sprayed. Should he be eating organic cows steak 3 times a day and end up with iron toxicity and bowel cancer?

16 hours ago, MartinMaggio said:

the biggest problem vegans face is the unawareness of what happens to fruits and vegetables once they are grown on these conditions, they CALCIFY the body and create IRON OVERLOAD. which lead to a host of chronic degenerative desease. Also a big problem vegans face is a reduction of thymus gland activity also known as reduced metabolism 

Thymus decreases in size in all humans in teens and gets replaced by fat tissue. This has nothing to do with being vegan. Vegetables DO NOT create iron overload. Non-Heme iron does not accumulate in the same way a heme iron does. Body can actually regulate it naturally unlike heme-iron that can cause toxicity. 

Please show me a systemic overview or meta analysis that shows that vegetables cause chronic disease and tissue calcification, this all stinks of scaremongering and hidden agenda. If anything largest epidemiological studies suggest vegetable and fruit being protective against all-cause mortality. According to Global Burden of DIsease (2006 or 2016 not sure right now) fruit is one of the key dietary factors for prevention of unnecessary premature death from all causes. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Michael569

[Nickyy]

@Michael569 I've never heard of a vegan with iron overload problems. If anything the research indicates the opposite.

That was the first question I had with @MartinMaggio statement 

There are more questions, but I'm still pondering those.

 

[Charlotte]

Op I eat shit loads of fruit and veg daily ((more organic the better)) shit loads of plant protein (I'm a plant based mofo) I strength train twice a week, do moderate to high cardio three times a week and also lots of rehabilitation exercises. I use the knowledge I have about nutrition to optimise my training and I'm getting great results. For me this works best... My advice would be to experiment and listen to your body and equipt yourself with knowledge from all nutritional perspectives. 

 

Edit: all my iron, calcium, vitamin levels are extremely healthy and I haven't touched a drop of dairy/ egg or meat in over a year. 

[DrewNows]

@Nickyy haha there’s an initiation/transition process for a safe shift away from the need for food. If you’re interested in learning more about this, Ray Maor has youtube videos and a book a year without food, where he shares he’s journey; he’s also with workshops all across the world for people seeking to experience this way of living 

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Nickyy said:

I've never heard of a vegan with iron overload problems. If anything the research indicates the opposite.

Unless you suffer from hemochromatosis or supplementing high doses of iron, I can't imagine spinach and broccoli giving you overload  unfortunatelly iron-deficiency and/or ID anaemia is a common sign of badly managed animal-free diet. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by Michael569

[Nickyy]

46 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Nickyy haha there’s an initiation/transition process for a safe shift away from the need for food. If you’re interested in learning more about this, Ray Maor has youtube videos and a book a year without food, where he shares he’s journey; he’s also with workshops all across the world for people seeking to experience this way of living 

Thanks for the recommendation. On first glance at his YouTube channel he leaves me with the impression that he's a bit of a cheese monger. ?

But of course I don't really know what he's all about until I think about some of his claims. 

Certainly no harm in spending a few minutes on his channel.

[Rasheed]

21 hours ago, Michael569 said:

@RasheedI think you need to educate yourself on different foods, nutrients and some basic biochemistry. You seem to have very uncertain opinions on lots of things and asking here will create even more confusion. 

Go to a large book store and grab a generic unbiased book on human nutrition. Nothing to do with paleao, vegan, raw or any other agenda. Pure basic dry academic textbook and start reading. 

Thanks. I will.

[Dumuzzi]

This is a fascinating discussion. There are some good arguments on all sides. A few things that sprung to mind as I was reading this:

- Humans, like our closest relatives, chimpanzees, are omnivores. We are neither Herbivores, nor Omnivores. That is just a scientific fact and no serious biologist would question it.

- Traditionally, humans lived a Hunter-Gatherer lifestyle. Women gathered berries, mushrooms, roots, oysters and whatnot, whilst men went out to hunt. At the end of the day, they shared whatever they managed to forage or hunt. This goes back hundreds of thousands of years, if not millions to many ancestral hominid species. That is again a scientific fact that is not in dispute.

- There are human groups alive today, who traditionally consume no fruits and vegetables at all and have not done so for millennia, yet they thrive. The Inuit are a prime example. We are not aware of any human groups that as a whole, do not consume any animal-derived products and have managed to survive on a purely vegan diet for many generations.

- Sustainable agriculture is simply not possible without animal husbandry. If you want to grow only plants, you will need plenty of Industrial inputs, especially fertilisers and pesticides to make it work.

- Most of the earth's surface area is unsuitable for plant-based agriculture. It can only be utilised by grazing. The seas and oceans can only be utilised by humans if we eat the animals that live in them. If we stopped utilising these areas to get our food, most humans would probably starve. On the other hand, if we ate just meat, it would use up so much in terms of resources, that again, many would starve. So yeah, how about a balanced diet that includes everything, just saying...