Question on Creativity and Depression

[electroBeam]

When I think about a goal to achieve, no matter how grand that goal is, after a while of thinking about it, I just get depressed. Reason is deep down I know that no matter how titillating it is, I'll get sick of it eventually, and I'll be back to depression.

For example, I will eventually get sick and depressed of:

1. having billions of dollars

2. being extremely healthy

3. having 'insights' and 'awakening experiences' (like thats after having 1000000s of them, it will eventually get boring, but if you go hard core for it, you will eventually have 1000000s of them)

4. being in a state of relaxation all the time

5. having a mansion

6. Living in a good country (eventually you will want to leave this planet and go live in DMT land forever)

etc etc etc. 

Can't get motivated when the end result is always getting sick of it which leads to deep deep deep depression. Even DMT land would get boring after a while. 

[Leo Gura]

Well, that's clearly a very unresourceful mindset.

Do you want to spend your whole life thinking like that? Are you happy with the results that mindset brings you?

If not, what results do you want and what mindset would create them?

Do you see how your current mindset create a self-fulfilling prophecy? The thing you fear you end up creating by fearing it.

[electroBeam]

 

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, that's clearly a very unresourceful mindset.

Do you want to spend your whole life thinking like that? Are you happy with the results that mindset brings you?

If not, what results do you want and what mindset would create them?

Do you see how your current mindset create a self-fulfilling prophecy? The thing you fear you end up creating by fearing it.

well I guess the mistake I'm making is I'm making a vision too far into the future. 

What will truly fulfil you in 10 yrs time (assuming you grow) is not what will fulfil you now. What will fulfil you in 10 yrs time would seem silly now, because you're at a different state of consciousness, maslow's needs, level of maturity, etc. So when it comes to planning your life, its really hard to plan 5 or 10 yrs into the future, because you will not get motivated to do those things, even if you were mature enough to know what those things are.

For example, what might fulfil you now is billions of dollars, because your living on the streets, but what might fulfil you in 10 yrs time is actually being on the streets as a buddha, but there's no way you will motivate yourself to do that now. But being a buddha is the thing that will fulfil you in the end. So the irony of it all is, you think happiness will come when you leave the streets and become a billionaire, but in reality the happiness you're looking for already exists on the streets, paradoxically the only way to realise this is to get off the streets. 

So it seems like, you just need to be ok with the fact that the skills you develop now are not going to be useful(will be a waste of time) to you in the long run. The skills needed to make a billion dollars will not help you be a buddha on the streets. Maybe enjoying the process rather than aiming for the end result is the solution here. 

This is what I've noticed in the past 5 years, the things I dreamed of 5 years ago are completely different to now. Even the things I dreamed of being 1 year ago (dreamed of being an Einstein) are completely different now, because after doing some scientific work I've realised that no matter how much I do and how enlightened it is, it wont fulfil me, fulfilment comes above thought -> from experience. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by electroBeam

[Leo Gura]

Well, you are mixing survival issues with God-realization, which is a bit unfair. You are too wise for your own good! But not wise enough not to hang yourself with your knowledge of enlightenment. So you are stuck in a sort of netherzone.

Ultimate fulfillment is too big of a thing for you to worry about right now. I would leave some room open for enjoying basic survival and getting good at that. It won't all be for waste. It's all part of your growth.

Learn to feed and cloth yourself before you go chasing dreams of enlightenment.

You are right that whatever you do, life is about enjoying the journey, not the destination. This applies to earning a billion dollars as well as to spiritual work.

It's too easy to pursue spiritual work joylessly.

And don't forget: before enlightenment, the laundry. After enlightenment, the laundry. So you might as well get good at laundry.

[electroBeam]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 So you are stuck in a sort of netherzone.

Yep nailed it on the head, extremely challenging place to be. Especially when no one seems to have gone through it and understands your problem.

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And don't forget: before enlightenment, the laundry. After enlightenment, the laundry. So you might as well get good at laundry.

Yeah I guess spiritual work and survival go hand in hand and shouldn't be treated as separate things. 

[Aeris]

I'll meditate on this topic man. Seams highly looking like my current conclusion. 

You very reflect all the things I did reflect for myself.

We shouldn't be planning but breathing everyday for having only super efficient 'human day' my conclusion.

This lead me to smoke weed & art everyday. And even art. It's not fun' It's not an hobby. I changed my activity.

After almost 10k of ableton live. I don't think that I could lead a life Where I do one thing.

It need to be a global thing for me... Maybe creating a whole movie and playing in it or creating an entire vidéo game.

But with 0€ it will stay fantasy for now.

 

[electroBeam]

19 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

For example, for a visionaire musician, there's always endless juice to get out of making music. In fact, a visionaire musician understands that there's more juice to it than could be possibly squeezed in a hundred lifetimes devoted to making music, and more.

Definitely have had that in the past, if you observe carefully though, there is a difference between doing music and the vision you have of music. The motivation relies on ignoring this observation. The vision is a hallucination compared to the real thing. 

I think kundalini, truth realization, etc are things which you can really get motivated by, because they aren't bullshit like the former stuff is. You don't need to bullshit yourself to believe in those things, with music and vision, or art and vision, or anything and vision, you do. 

I think Sadhguru is on the right track where he talks about enjoying life one step at a time. Appreciating the beauty in the present moment. Terence Mckenna talked about this when he was on his last legs. The beauty of music isn't in the bullshit vision you come up with, its in the sacredness of life itself, its in the process of making the music, just the fact that you're here and can make music is sacred. 

Getting involved with your vision may have its benefits for some, its a great way to change your subconscious mind, push out false beliefs so you can put in new better ones, but getting lost in those visions to the point where it has the power to motivate you can be very dangerous for some, definitely for me. 

[Aeris]

6 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

Definitely have had that in the past, if you observe carefully though, there is a difference between doing music and the vision you have of music. The motivation relies on ignoring this observation. The vision is a hallucination compared to the real thing. 

I think kundalini, truth realization, etc are things which you can really get motivated by, because they aren't bullshit like the former stuff is. You don't need to bullshit yourself to believe in those things, with music and vision, or art and vision, or anything and vision, you do. 

I think Sadhguru is on the right track where he talks about enjoying life one step at a time. Appreciating the beauty in the present moment. Terence Mckenna talked about this when he was on his last legs. The beauty of music isn't in the bullshit vision you come up with, its in the sacredness of life itself, its in the process of making the music, just the fact that you're here and can make music is sacred. 

Getting involved with your vision may have its benefits for some, its a great way to change your subconscious mind, push out false beliefs so you can put in new better ones, but getting lost in those visions to the point where it has the power to motivate you can be very dangerous for some, definitely for me. 

Story of my life- but I m only 25

How much deluded on my vision to push 3000 hours of music in 2 years ?

But now I m just breathing and observing.

I don't try to be a buddha or a billionaire anymore.

[electroBeam]

@Aeris Yeah I think this happens to people who spend unusual amount of hours on vision like us, and slowly we see the limits of it. We see that a vision much like a pot at the end of a rainbow. Motivation is fuelled by denying this fact. 

[Aeris]

3 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

@Aeris Yeah I think this happens to people who spend unusual amount of hours on vision like us, and slowly we see the limits of it. We see that a vision much like a pot at the end of a rainbow. Motivation is fuelled by denying this fact. 

Motivation come and go. 

For now It's even hard to play vidéo game for me. I feel guilty hahaha. So I pull podcast while doing it. Need a serious break in music. Everyday I feel 'I have to'

I m still alienated with the mindset of working hard to get my 'vision'.

But 'vision' is a delusion.

I have some sort of idea of what would be the good life. But even this is like you say' a delusion.

[electroBeam]

2 minutes ago, see_on_see said:

@electroBeam I obviously was talking about taking action on the vision, not just jerking off to the thought of it. 

 

Well the thought is a necessary precursor to the action

[Scholar]

You lack passion. To have passion is to love. To love is to give, not receive.

 

Everything you have listed are things you are going to receive, not give. The artist who creates art puts love into the creation of art itself, every brush-stroke is an act of love, is an act of passion.

 

From passion there will come vision, not the other way around. From the love of creating you will find desire to create things. No artist ever paints one painting for his entire life, that would be absurd. An artist who is passionate does not create goals for all the paintings he will be painting for the rest of his life.

The painter loves painting, he uses the excuse of a finished piece so that he can do what he loves more to paint.

 

Look at the passion of Christ. His passion was for humankind, his love was for human beings. Give him anything that would make him able to help humans and he would have been satisfied and happy for the rest of his life. He would have never grown bored of helping human beings, as it is his passion, his love.

From that love grows a vision, a vision of how to increase that love. How to help more human beings becomes the vision of the one who loves helping human beings. It is not artificial, it is true Love.

 

A vision should be an extention of your passion, not the other way around. First you will need to find your passion, that which you are willing to give Love. It is not about receiving, it is about infusing other experiences with love.

 

If you, for example, truly love feeding birds, it will give you joy until the very end of time. You could stand there and feed them all day long, even if it was only one bird. To feed 10 birds might give you even more joy. To feed 1000s even more and so forth. There is no end to it.

 

 

All of Creation is fundamentally the Passion of God, God gives Love to Creation. God does not receive, God gives.

The Passion of God, therefore, leads to a Vision which will Increase Creation. Because to Create is Love, there is no end to Creation.

[mandyjw]

Go outside and sit it a pile of dirt until you see the wonder of it and love the pile of dirt as yourself. Then you know the fabric of the universe itself is love and satisfaction. Then it doesn't matter what you do, grand plans or otherwise, success or failure, it's all fulfillment.

Edited November 5, 2019 by mandyjw

[electroBeam]

1 hour ago, Scholar said:

You lack passion. To have passion is to love. To love is to give, not receive.

 

Everything you have listed are things you are going to receive, not give. The artist who creates art puts love into the creation of art itself, every brush-stroke is an act of love, is an act of passion.

 

From passion there will come vision, not the other way around. From the love of creating you will find desire to create things. No artist ever paints one painting for his entire life, that would be absurd. An artist who is passionate does not create goals for all the paintings he will be painting for the rest of his life.

The painter loves painting, he uses the excuse of a finished piece so that he can do what he loves more to paint.

 

Look at the passion of Christ. His passion was for humankind, his love was for human beings. Give him anything that would make him able to help humans and he would have been satisfied and happy for the rest of his life. He would have never grown bored of helping human beings, as it is his passion, his love.

From that love grows a vision, a vision of how to increase that love. How to help more human beings becomes the vision of the one who loves helping human beings. It is not artificial, it is true Love.

 

A vision should be an extention of your passion, not the other way around. First you will need to find your passion, that which you are willing to give Love. It is not about receiving, it is about infusing other experiences with love.

 

If you, for example, truly love feeding birds, it will give you joy until the very end of time. You could stand there and feed them all day long, even if it was only one bird. To feed 10 birds might give you even more joy. To feed 1000s even more and so forth. There is no end to it.

 

 

All of Creation is fundamentally the Passion of God, God gives Love to Creation. God does not receive, God gives.

The Passion of God, therefore, leads to a Vision which will Increase Creation. Because to Create is Love, there is no end to Creation.

yep very good point it's about giving to infinity.

16 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Go outside and sit it a pile of dirt until you see the wonder of it and love the pile of dirt as yourself. Then you know the fabric of the universe itself is love and satisfaction. Then it doesn't matter what you do, grand plans or otherwise, success or failure, it's all fulfillment.

yes, I've come to that conclusion as well.

1 hour ago, see_on_see said:

You guys misunderstand what it's meant by visionaire. 

A visionaire is NOT someone who spends their time visioning. That's not what it is at all. 

A visionaire is someone who sees so deeply into Infinity that they realize there's endless stuff to do, so much that they're only going to actualize a small fraction of it within a lifetime. 

Once you've seen that deep, motivation isn't a problem anymore. It's not something that comes and goes or whatever, in fact you're gonna have the opposite problem of being too motivated, and possibly a crippling anxiety about not being able to express enough (and that'll be one's next obstacle to overcome to become a healthy visionaire, one that doesn't turn into a workaholic). 

I'm not talking about motivation by mere visioning, that ain't a visionaire. Without action the mind tends to spin endlessly on its own bullshit and that doesn't work for long. Without action you can't even really vision. 

I'm talking about motivation by massive action based on a massive vision. And from that you can definitely have long-lasting permanent motivation. In fact that's pretty much the only way. 

 

Glad you have found a passion that you love. Unfortunately not everyone is interested/motivated by 'doing stuff'. Some people just want to 'Be', just enjoy the Me. And let whatever comes, whether that's prosperity, poverty, seeing a new born baby, or watching someone die. Just enjoy it all. This new motivation happens from doing that endless stuff for years working weekdays and weekends. In other words massive action. And sometimes like in my case you can swing from wanting to alturistically create, to wanting to not create but just be. I'm in the current stage where I want to just be. I'm sure I'll get passionate again in a few years and want to create stuff again.