How can I become more multi-perspectival

[Nivsch]

@Nickyy but isn't multiperspectival is a yellow quality?

Green, for what i know, thinks that the others political povs are less right than him. Which is right ?

Edited November 9, 2019 by Nivsch

[Nickyy]

46 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Nickyy but isn't multiperspectival is a yellow quality?

Green, for what i know, thinks that the others political povs are less right than him. Which is right ?

You're already multiperspectival if you're not identified with any mind activity. 

Trying to think like that is like a substitute for being.

Being is yellow. Be-ing, just being. Not trying on a multitude of perspectives, just being yourself as you are, whole, complete, in the moment 

That's where your insights should arise from. If your insights are rising from some pre existing dogma like "relativism" then you're in the mind. 

[Nickyy]

50 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Nickyy but isn't multiperspectival is a yellow quality?

Green, for what i know, thinks that the others political povs are less right than him. Which is right ?

If you think about relativism for a moment you will see that it's not true. It's an ideology. How can you say all perspectives are relative and then impose that onto others? That's saying that everyone else's perspectives are wrong. 

It's a self refuting belief system.

[Forestluv]

@Nivsch Green is often unattractive to Orange. And yellow can appear as more attractive. Especially to intellectual/conceptual types. So when an Orange-centered person wants to expand, they will often want to bypass Green and go toward conceptual Yellow. They may take some intellectual interest in Green yet aren’t willing to do the work to embody green. This creates a poorly integrated yellow that tries to have an outside “meta view” yet doesn’t “get it”. They are in an academic/conceptual space lacking green embodiment and modes of being such as empathic abilities. There is often a green shadow. For those that have embodied green it’s easy to pick up on.

Green isn’t just about conceptual theory. There are also deeper levels that come through practice, work and direct experience. This cannot be theorized it comes through direct experience. For someone cognitively based, I’d estimate at least a few thousand hours. I found direct experience through immersion in marginalized/stigmatized groups to be most beneficial. For example, I volunteered within a psychiatric hospital with patients for five years. I would sit and listen to them and learn. Yet not an theoretical type of learning. These were patients that attempted suicide, had psychosis and victims of domestic violence. There were times, I would get severe anxiety or feel psychosis. Some nights I had trouble sleeping. I started to “get them”, yet not intellectually. As well, I’ve worked with drug addicts and alcoholics. I’ve also lived in marginalized impoverished communities, such as a poor village in Honduras. 
 

There is no substitute for this type of direct experience. It’s is a not a conceptual form of understanding. It comes through direct experience, embodiment and skill development. It is a different type of “knowing” and it’s totally obvious when an Orange or poorly-integrated Yellow lacks this green-centered embodiment. 
 

To me, an integrated Yellow is the gold standard. That integration includes conceptual understanding, transcendence of self, meta awareness and green embodiment that came through a lot of direct experience and work. There are many flavors of poorly integrated yellow with green shadows. 

[Lento]

I would say that there can be unhealthy manifestations at any stage, and basically the spiral counts for consciousness expansion. So, the higher you are the more your consciousness is expanded to include more perspectives, or at least, wider perspectives.

The problem with tier one stages is that each one of them takes its respective stage to be the highest stage whatsoever, without acknowledging the possibility of more wisdom outside of their reach and sight.

I think tier two is higher than tier one as long as you're still in tier one. But when you become at tier two, things start becoming clearer to you, and the hierarchy breaks down. Stage Purple would not be viewed lower than Green anymore. I think it's only at tier two that consciousness starts practically working in a mindful real-time mode. So, it becomes more of a 'case by case' than an 'absolute solution or view for all cases'.

Of course, this quality still can be misused and can be really dangerous. That's where the unhealthy manifestations of Yellow start to appear, it's when you use the wisdom you have for selfish reasons, so that's returning back to beige only with a lot more tools for manipulating reality.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Lento

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Lento said:

 

I think tier two is higher than tier one as long as you're still in tier one. But when you become at tier two, things start becoming clearer to you, and the hierarchy breaks down. Stage Purple would not be viewed lower than Green anymore. 

Good point. If I may add in a bit. . . The transition into Tier2 is enormous and involves the dissolution of attachment and identity. There isn’t as much of a sense of “my perspective” and “your perspective”. And not so much debate of trying to show “my perspective” is better than “your perspective”. There are various perspectives floating around without a strong attachment/identification to a perspective as “me” or “mine”. Yet this doesn’t mean that yellow considers all perspectives to be equally relevant or valuable. 
In terms of hierarchies of worth, the personal aspect dissolves - yet there can still be a developmental hierarchy. For example, we could say that a 12th grade student is at a more advanced development stage than a 6th grade student. Yet this doesn’t mean we are making personal judgements of worth. We are not saying that a 12th grader is a better person than a 6th grader. . . . Similarly, we could say that a human is more evolved than a fish. Yet this doesn’t mean a human is better than a fish. It’s totally appropriate to be a fish when the environment is an ocean. In this environment, it’s actually better to be a fish.

[Nickyy]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

Good point. If I may add in a bit. . . The transition into Tier2 is enormous and involves the dissolution of attachment and identity. There isn’t as much of a sense of “my perspective” and “your perspective”. And not so much debate of trying to show “my perspective” is better than “your perspective”. There are various perspectives floating around without a strong attachment/identification to a perspective as “me” or “mine”. Yet this doesn’t mean that yellow considers all perspectives to be equally relevant or valuable. 
In terms of hierarchies of worth, the personal aspect dissolves - yet there can still be a developmental hierarchy. For example, we could say that a 12th grade student is at a more advanced development stage than a 6th grade student. Yet this doesn’t mean we are making personal judgements of worth. We are not saying that a 12th grader is a better person than a 6th grader. . . . Similarly, we could say that a human is more evolved than a fish. Yet this doesn’t mean a human is better than a fish. It’s totally appropriate to be a fish when the environment is an ocean. In this environment, it’s actually better to be a fish.

Yes that's it. You nailed it. It's not that all perspectives are equal, it's that all perspectives are partially true and stage appropriate. The joker was pathological because he was a child in a mans body, behaving like a child. There is no right or wrong about that, it is what it is, but a spade is a spade, and you got to tell it how it is. You can't just beat about the bush trying not to offend green. You have to be honest, a child in a mans body is not stage appropriate behaviour, although beige is appropriate - 50,000 years ago and in infancy. 

[Nickyy]

@Nivsch You will understand all this intuitively by just living in the moment. It's all there, you function very well without the need of a mental ideology. No work is really required.

[Key Elements]

@Nivsch here's a simple way of putting it: if a person is with multi-perspectives, this person will want to learn something new. He/she will think before responding and ask questions before responding when presented with something new. A person with one-sided or very few perspectives cannot detect what the other person is saying. He/she just use limited views to defend himself/herself.

[Nak Khid]

the only way to do it properly  it is to be in situations where you are physically present with other people with different perspectives interacting with them or at minimum listening to them.

[Aquarius]

There are healthy and unhealthy manifestations of every SD stage. So you can be an unhealthy SD Red, like animal abuser and mafia, or a healthy SD Red, like a football player that is successful and loved. You can be an unhealthy SD Purple, like being obsessed with ghosts and unhealthy superstition, or a high value SD Purple, like a shaman for example, or a forest/white witch. You could be a conservatist SD Blue, or you can have SD Green elements and become a saint! Green can be unhealthy if you judge others who are not on your thinking. 

I think I might be SD Yellow. I don't feel offended when people hurt animals.. I mean I am obviously against it and sorry for the animals, poor things... but I understand that this person is psychologically damaged or unhealthy SD Red, I mean I see it from "above". I don't feel like posting animal cruelty things on Facebook. But obviously I love animals, dogs especially, and sometimes I buy food for stray dogs or poor people. Idk. 

My friend told me he killed 3 bunnies in his childhood and I felt a deep empathy for him instead of judgement.. cause I knew he was sorry for what he did. I feel bad for killing insects sometimes, must be similar with bunnies.. maybe worse.

Also I'm bisexual but I keep it secret from my heavily Christian SD Blue family... I know they would accept it if they knew because they love me... or they would just tell my sexologist or the priest  haha. Who knows. I never thought about coming out to them... Honestly I just respect their opinion. *shrug*

Edited November 9, 2019 by Aquarius

[Aquarius]

On 11/4/2019 at 10:59 PM, Serotoninluv said:

Perhaps read more about what Yellow is like. My favorite book in this are is "How to think like Leonardo Da Vinci". Imo, Da Vinci is a great example of Yellow. 

On my list of books soon!!! <3 

22 hours ago, Nivsch said:

This week I bought the two System Thinking books Leo recommended + a third book of system thinking that had good comments in Amazone (76% gave five stars). I heard twice the colors videos of Leo and read about them from multiple of sites. The book "how to think like Da Vinci" changed your view and behaviour in life significantly?

Does he have Systems Thinking on the books list?? Maaaan need to check out that list again..  

19 hours ago, Nickyy said:

Stop thinking about it. When you stop trying to live from the intellect you will see how all of these perspectives are right and that you can access them all fairly easily in the present moment when you need to.

At the moment you're just fixated on an ideology of trying to be super developed, which is a false position (as it's causing you obvious problems in relating to others)

You're already whole. 

I loved this post. I was thinking the same. I think ever since childhood I was Green/Orange. In teens I became Christian due to the school teachings and I was very fragile and naive. But yeah the ideology ruins the whole thing.

We are already a whole as we are.  

18 hours ago, Nickyy said:

@Nivsch I think one of the weaknesses of green is it's conditioned to root out inequality and attempt to level the playing field.

It's just a programme . It's not really conscious, no matter how it thinks it's so much more developed, it's just another ideology. 

If you can just let everything be as it is, you will find that everyone is playing their part in ways you maybe you cannot appreciate when you got your green goggles on 

Maybe unhealthy SD Green is like so..? Healthy SD Green makes a lot of change in the world.......

[Aquarius]

3 hours ago, Nickyy said:

Being is yellow. Be-ing, just being. Not trying on a multitude of perspectives, just being yourself as you are, whole, complete, in the moment 

That's where your insights should arise from. If your insights are rising from some pre existing dogma like "relativism" then you're in the mind. 

Ok........ and next step! What is Turquoise??

I've been in SD Turquoise for a short while and it was eeeffiiinnn MIND BLOWING!!

I need to study systems thinking more again..  Kinda neglected myself with all the job hunt and dating game...... 

 

[Lento]

@Serotoninluv

Thanks for better communicating the message ?

Do you think that the detachment of identity at tier two can be faked? I mean if someone was truly detached that would make them enlightened, right? Are enlightenment and tier two correlated in your opinion?

[Forestluv]

On 11/10/2019 at 0:56 AM, Lento said:

@Serotoninluv

Do you think that the detachment of identity at tier two can be faked? I mean if someone was truly detached that would make them enlightened, right? Are enlightenment and tier two correlated in your opinion?

The term "enlightenment" can be used in so many ways. I think the term can muddy the waters when talking about SD. There is an aspect of awakening/awareness expansion/enlightenment as we evolve up the spiral. There are sudden awakenings, yet also development that takes time and direct experience. As we evolve up the spiral, awareness becomes more and more meta. I think Leo describes this very well in the first hour of his "content and structure" video.

For example, someone at a blue stage may have been raised and conditioned in a Christian environment. They attended church each week, they attended a religious school. Their identity and social group is Christian. They are immersed in the content of the religion. They are playing the role of a Christian character in their movie. Of course there are other religions, yet that is within the content of the movie. The person may think "I am Christian and this is the true word of god. That person in Muslim and is worshipping a false god. That person is atheist and lacks morality". This is all within the content of the "religious movie". . . Now this person may go to a University outside of their religious home environment. For the first time, they may be exposed to scientific explanations of evolution and how believing in an anthropomorphic god is irrational. They may take a religious studies course in which examines the structure of all religions and what they all have in common. The person may transcend their immersion of being a Christian and think "Wait a minute. . . If I grew up in the middle east, I'd probably be Muslim. If I grew up in India, I'd probably be Hindu. . . All religions have a common theme - a belief in an external being called god". . . Here, the identification to being a Christian is transcended and a meta awareness appears. This would be the transcendence of blue to orange. . . This person may now think "Wait a minute. .  .If these are all just stories, how do I know which one is true? Or if any are true? Maybe they are all irrational is there is no god. Perhaps I should just try to live the best life I can and pursue my own goals without concern about a god". . . Now the person may identify as an atheist and a rational person. . . This sets up a new movie of content. The new movie is playing a character that is rational and knows that religious people are irrational and create gods for their own sense of security and comfort. . . This movie content can also be transcended. The person may realize "Wait a minute. . . isn't atheism a belief? A belief that I have no belief? Isn't rational thinking relative? How decides what is rational or irrational?". . . This can lead to another level of transcendence in which there is awareness that all perspectives are a relative lens.

In terms of "faking it" - I would say a person at a transitional stage may have a desire to "fake it" to try and adopt the new transcendent identity. Here, the concept of "embodiment" comes into play. For example, a person may think "All perspectives are relative. I hold no perspective.". . . Yet this person is often arguing/debating about stuff. Here, they are attached/identified to a perspective and arguing for their perspective, yet is unaware of it. This will prevent exploration of perspectives and prevent integration, systems and holism. For example, someone may try and adopt an identity of "I'm color-blind. I don't see racial differences. I've transcended that". Yet the person may still have unconscious biases. The person may resist seeing, understanding and experiencing the perspective of someone from a marginalized group - such as a racial minority or transgender person. . . This person may cognitively believe that they are unbiased, yet have not embodied it.  

[Lento]

@Serotoninluv

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I like the movie analogy. I noticed that the transition between stages happen while the structure of the identity remains untouched. It is still there as a structure, but only the content has changed. That's what I'm asking about. Do you think that at tier two the whole structure of identity dissolves instead of being replaced with another structure/content?

Edited November 11, 2019 by Lento

[Rigel]

@Nivsch

I hope you've watched this week's video. I think it is relevant to your original post! 

[Nivsch]

22 minutes ago, Rigel said:

@Nivsch

I hope you've watched this week's video. I think it is relevant to your original post! 

Yes, yesterday

[Nivsch]

On 9.11.2019 at 7:10 PM, Nickyy said:

@Nivsch You will understand all this intuitively by just living in the moment. It's all there, you function very well without the need of a mental ideology. No work is really required.

Maybe yes

[Nivsch]

On 9.11.2019 at 8:05 PM, Nak Khid said:

the only way to do it properly  it is to be in situations where you are physically present with other people with different perspectives interacting with them or at minimum listening to them.

? 

Not in whatsapp thats for sure ?