The intevention of Turkey on east Siriya is justifed or not!

[Marks199]

Is the Turkish military offensive to Siriya justified because of establishing control over certain territory of Siriya and moving the immigrants from turkey to Siriya? Is this a stage redaction for putting in check terrorist organizations or will this cause more refugees towards Europe and the justification of the Turkish side is that they want to combat the YPG movement led by the Kurds? Why isn't Trump-supporting intervention in that territory if he agrees with the Russians and the Turks

Edited November 4, 2019 by Marks199

[Leo Gura]

All justifications are relative and self-biased.

[Elisabeth]

I hear a very different (clearly also biased/incomplete) picture. The Turkish offensive is a genocide of Kurds (there is longstanding animosity between them). The Kurds have fought against the Islamic state alongside with US military, who has now decided to let them down. Politicians across Europe didn't do anything, effectively sacrificing Kurds because Turkey is our "ally" in NATO holds a strategic border... or for some reason... and we all are deeply ashamed. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Elisabeth

[remember]

it’s not just a shame it’s a human rights desaster every firewall which was installed to interfere in broke down what shows that we are indeed not able to learn from the past - the kurds are a playball between turkey, russia and syrian regime. on turkish side there are radical islamic militia who execute in street justice, they executed a female politician out of her car at the beginning of the operation „clean up peace“ sorry that’s sarcastic. the last thing she said was: „don’t shoot him he is just the driver“, he was executed as well.
during the military invention isis fighters where able to flee from an unattended prison the kurds kept them in because they couldn’t maintain the presence. there are hundredth more kept by the sdf (syrian democratic forces) they are kept imprisoned to get a trial in front of a court (notice the absurdity of the situation in comparison to how the kurds in general are treated by the turkish militia), if these isis people who in sdf prisons would come free it would be a desaster for the west and the whole region there aswell.
the real desaster though is that we are not only to be ashamed we are guilty of subsidy.

Edited November 4, 2019 by remember

[nahtanoj]

USA is letting it word mean anything. What a shame. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by nahtanoj

[DnoReally]

Yes of course. The Kurds are bad no-no people that need the strict rule of turkish overlords. No backstory needed, its just what it is.

[Harikrishnan]

On 04/11/2019 at 6:51 PM, nahtanoj said:

USA is  a shame. 

 

[Lento]

What costs more? Raging a war or containing the immigrants? I think it's obvious what's going on in there. It's the same old 'tribes' thing. The Turkish tribe is invading and killing the other weaker tribes.

[Sucuk Ekmek]

This is not black&white as it seems. What you define as ''Syria'' is no more existing. Think like you abandon the state you live in because of your safety reasons, now the country sees you as a traitor (stage red and blue). Syria wouldn't want their citizens back. This has no use. Although those people  (refuges) now meet with secularism in Turkey, most of them don't want to go back either. You can't belive how fast they evolve from blue to orange. For example you can see a mother in full black closed hijab with gloves on but her little 3 years old daughter would like any american girl with yellow curly hair. Problem here most of the Turks including Erdoğan's supporters (mixed orange and blue) even big part of the greens don't want any refugee in the country. So  there he needs an offence, he can't manipulate system anymore. First they tried to go with blue values like '' they are our religion brothers  etc...'' but it didn't work this way with current bad economy. Things are not sustainable anymore in Turkey like it used to be. What happening in Syria is now all devils play. The situation in Syria handled so poorly, and here Turkey plays major role too.

[CreamCat]

Let go of syria. It's a lost cause.

[Lento]

41 minutes ago, Sucuk Ekmek said:

but it didn't work this way with current bad economy.

I'm really curious, how does Turkey cover war expenses with such bad economy?

9 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Let go of syria. It's a lost cause.

You mean the country? Or the government? Or the people?

[CreamCat]

Just now, Lento said:

You mean the country? Or the government? Or the people?

Realistically speaking, syria can be split into several countries or be eaten by other countries. The identity of syria is falling apart.

[Lento]

@CreamCat

I'm not sure. I mean it's already become a Russian-Iranian colony, as they own the exports of the country, and the governing 'gang' (Assad) still exists at least theoretically as they owe huge debts to both Russia and Iran.

On the other hand, Turkey was waiting a long time to get rid of the Kurds, then it had to deal with the refugees, a problem which it wasn't really expecting since Turkey supported the rebellion against Assad.

The way I see it is that after 9 years Turkey has failed to remove Assad so it's given up on that and now is trying to get back to the original plan, that is the Kurds. I expect that the situation between Turkey and Syria will get back better after both are done with the YPG. I think Erdoğan will finally find some way to clean up the mess he'd made with Assad.

[Sucuk Ekmek]

32 minutes ago, Lento said:

I'm really curious, how does Turkey cover war expenses with such bad economy?

 It doesn't. IMF is coming soon. Goverment loosing it's popularity so fast. Erdoğan lost controll allready. There is a hard evolution going on with Turkey under the iceberg.

[Marks199]

@Sucuk Ekmek You mean prodemocratic movements are rising in Turkey. But 2/3 of turks support the invasion on Syria.

[Lento]

@Sucuk Ekmek

I hear you, but I gotta agree with @Marks199 on Erduğan's (or at least the invasion) supporters ratio. I don't really have the numbers, but it seems so to me. A lot of the Turks I see on social media seem to have gotten sick of the bad economical climate that resulted from taking in refugees. So, the majority seem to support the AK party as that promises more security and therefore economical flourish??? (not sure about this).

[CreamCat]

Invading syria will create more refugees.

[Lento]

@CreamCat

The invasion is not random. Erduğan understands what he's doing. He's after the oil that's in the Syrian east.

If he succeeds, the oil will improve the economy of Turkey, plus he will get rid of the YPG, plus he might be able to create a safe zone for the refugees.

[remember]

It`s really interesting what erdogan is after. i wonder and wonder, mainly it is power i suspect and maybe making the country a little bigger? influence is probably one of the main goals. i would not say for everyone it`s mainly the oil. he wants to play with the others in the sandbox, that`s for me more likely. there could have been other methods. and sometimes i just count the handshakes and wonder. erdogan is probably really mostly afraid about how his country might shrink if there would be a kurdistan.

funny that i found this older article where slavoj zizek commented about the kurdish hope to maybe being able to have their own country - if you read that you might also understand the fear erdogan has. who really wants to give up on parts of their country? but leading a preventive war against a weaker ethnicity in another country, what exactly should be the justification about it? i mean yeah self justified but not righteous, on the contrary. erdogan pointing towards pkk is denying that there are probably more civilians than armed kurdish people and well the armed people are not pkk they are resistance against the is. it`s skapegoating we can watch everywhere in politics in media used as a justification.

http://kurdishquestion.com/oldarticle.php?aid=slavoj-zizek-kurds-are-the-most-progressive-democratic-nation-in-the-middle-east

i guess the kurds already accepted that they won`t have an own county to that extend the moment they accepted the handshake with damascus, but of course who wants to leave their homeland, they lived on for centuries? they just want to keep the structures which work well also with the other minorities in that region and want to be more autonomous within syria. like bavaria for example is in germany. usually these regions develope economical streangth which also is good for the whole country if i compare that to europe, so well might be damascus can see that, or not. wonder how it will develope.

Edited November 8, 2019 by remember

[Lento]

@remember

Kurdistan is fantasy land. The Kurd leaders didn't spring too much muscles figuring out which is the most oily territory in the area, it was Kurdistan by pure luck and destiny. Don't you find that at least a little bit suspicious? There is no Kurdistan, there never was, and there will never be. That's not to deny the existence of the Kurdish people. But they'd have to find some other land to live in as home like the case with the Israeli people. I think that's how things are gonna end up for them anyway.