Awakening and Nihilism

[arlin]

Hi guys, 

I have been listening to Jim Newman lately. He teaches non duality in a very direct way. He says that he had an awakening experience, but his teachings are different from other enlightened  teachers in that he says there is no self, and so there is nothing for anybody and when you die that's it, basically, a very nihilistic view on what reality is. He does not consider the concept of a god creator because to him this is the ego trying to understand. And there is nothing to understand.

To me sounds like he is playing with words, however, my question is:

Why do some people who have experienced an awakening talk about beautiful things, while others have a nihilistic view?

If the truth is only one, shouldn't it be only one answer?

 

[zeroISinfinity]

True Awakening =❤️

Lots of ? All loved and embraced but still ?. 

[arlin]

@zeroISinfinity yeah, but you did not answer my question hahah

[allislove]

Could it be that there is a different depth of awakenings?

On one level only Oneness seems to be Real, everything else is Illusion, on another level − Absolute and Maya are both Real, just different sides of the same coin. 

 

[Eu Sint]

Absolute Truth = Oneness= Nothingness=Infinite Inteligence=Eternity=Goodness=Love=God=Consciouness=Presence= Pure Being= THAT.

You are That.

Which answer do you like?

[arlin]

3 hours ago, dimitri said:

Could it be that there is a different depth of awakenings?

Huhm... depths? Yeah...

 

[zeroISinfinity]

@arlin Full Truth is very Radical and it is hard to stomach. I always say you really have to be robust to be able to handle it. 

Take Leo's example for every video he Creates about existential, Absolute, God topics he experiences his own death actually. Spiritual practises, spiritual work is Kinda not for everyone, it really takes everything out of you. So many traps but All in All. Love remains as Absolute. 

[allislove]

28 minutes ago, arlin said:

Huhm... depths? Yeah...

 

I think, awakening can reveal different facets of Truth. The mistake is to cling to only particular facets and take it as Truth.

[Leo Gura]

Because there are many degrees of and facets to awakening.

If he denies he is God, it's not fully awake. Nihilistic awakenings are never complete.

[Aeris]

2 hours ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@arlin Full Truth is very Radical and it is hard to stomach. I always say you really have to be robust to be able to handle it. 

Take Leo's example for every video he Creates about existential, Absolute, God topics he experiences his own death actually. Spiritual practises, spiritual work is Kinda not for everyone, it really takes everything out of you. So many traps but All in All. Love remains as Absolute. 

You are 8 hours per day on this forum stirring non sense.

If you're so happy living in absolute love use your absolute for something less deluded than spreading relative words that you're fully aware will never share any help.

Who are the people to talk with ? Who ??

 

 

[Setty]

@Leo Gura Can't the denial of god be a matter of terminology? Perhaps one can have an opinion that the absolute is far too tricky to give it a name because it will inevitably create a duality. When we talk about god we do it from a lense of a christian backround because when we grew up we saw around us the christian symbolic representation of god and now the word god rings the bell of that imagery. I say this because calling the absolute a god encompasses a lot of aspects of the absute BUT perhaps some aspects of the absolute are better represented in different forms especially if you want to explore different dimentions of life. 

Everybody needs their own set of concepts because of their biology, culture and life endeavours. If we play the game of "my thing is better than yours" we are forgetting how diverse the absolute can be. 

 

[Nahm]

 

Nihilism is not awakening. Jim Newman is not describing nihilism, that is your misinterpretation, by deflection & projection. He thought his method out pretty well. Same thing you just did to @zeroISinfinity. 

[Matt8800]

8 hours ago, arlin said:

Hi guys, 

I have been listening to Jim Newman lately. He teaches non duality in a very direct way. He says that he had an awakening experience, but his teachings are different from other enlightened  teachers in that he says there is no self, and so there is nothing for anybody and when you die that's it, basically, a very nihilistic view on what reality is. He does not consider the concept of a god creator because to him this is the ego trying to understand. And there is nothing to understand.

To me sounds like he is playing with words, however, my question is:

Why do some people who have experienced an awakening talk about beautiful things, while others have a nihilistic view?

If the truth is only one, shouldn't it be only one answer?

 

@arlin Different traditions have different "flavors" of enlightenment. Not all paths lead to the same experience of enlightenment. Ken Wilber co-wrote an interesting book in which they studied enlightened masters from various traditions.

Dont totally dismiss nihilism though. It must be passed through on the way to subjugating the ego when you realize there is no objective purpose or meaning. Then you must realize the profundity of your subjective values and meaning, and choose them carefully so they can guide you through life.

The opinion that no subjective experience persists after the body is dead is sectarian dogma. Other traditions state that the Atman/True Self incarnates into this life to learn and evolve through struggle and then continues after this incarnation for eternal evolution. You could put three enlightened people in a room and they could all disagree.

Your belief on this matter is important and should be considered carefully. One is going to live their life differently if they think nothing in this life matters or if everything in this life will impact your eternal evolution and no time in this life should be wasted.

Some traditions you can study on this topic to get various angles on it are Yoga, Tantra, Kabbalah, and the Occult. Even within each tradition, opinions vary widely.

One thing I consider is Ian Stevenson's studies on reincarnation show that reincarnation is mostly likely to be true.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Matt8800

[Visionary]

Nihilism is a paradigm.

The problem when one speaks of Nothingness or No-self is actually the categorization of "no" through words. 

 

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Setty said:

@Leo Gura Can't the denial of god be a matter of terminology? Perhaps one can have an opinion that the absolute is far too tricky to give it a name because it will inevitably create a duality. When we talk about god we do it from a lense of a christian backround because when we grew up we saw around us the christian symbolic representation of god and now the word god rings the bell of that imagery. I say this because calling the absolute a god encompasses a lot of aspects of the absute BUT perhaps some aspects of the absolute are better represented in different forms especially if you want to explore different dimentions of life. 

Everybody needs their own set of concepts because of their biology, culture and life endeavours. If we play the game of "my thing is better than yours" we are forgetting how diverse the absolute can be. 

No

You are God. End of story.

If you are not conscious that you are God, or what the word God means, you just aren't fully awake.

God has nothing to do with Christians, religions, humans, langauge, symbols, or any of that. God is infinite consciousness. Find out for yourself. You are it.

[SpiritualAwakening]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No

You are God. End of story.

If you are not conscious that you are God, or what the word God means, you just aren't fully awake.

God has nothing to do with Christians, religions, humans, langauge, symbols, or any of that. God is infinite consciousness. Find out for yourself. You are it.

@Leo Gura This is true yet I don't think he will receive it in this context. He has to experience and feel the sensation.

Edited November 4, 2019 by SpiritualAwakening

[WelcometoReality]

15 hours ago, arlin said:

If the truth is only one, shouldn't it be only one answer?

Truth is one however when you discover what truth is you have to make sense of truth conceptually to be able convey this truth to other people.

You can use the word God as a pointer to the absolute. The problem with the word God however is that it has been used in religion and it will not resonate with atheists. By using a more neutral word like source or consciousness it will be easier to resonate with these people. 

Any word can be used but each word has its own limitations.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, SpiritualAwakening said:

@Leo Gura This is true yet I don't think he will receive it in this context. He has to experience and feel the sensation.

That's the case with all deep lessons.

[arlin]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Because there are many degrees of and facets to awakening.

If he denies he is God, it's not fully awake. Nihilistic awakenings are never complete.

Leo why do some people stop and think that "This is it" when they awaken? Why don't they think to go further?

Is it their own ego you say?

12 hours ago, Nahm said:

Nihilism is not awakening. Jim Newman is not describing nihilism, that is your misinterpretation, by deflection & projection. He thought his method out pretty well.

You are right. Thank you

 

11 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

Your belief on this matter is important and should be considered carefully. One is going to live their life differently if they think nothing in this life matters or if everything in this life will impact your eternal evolution and no time in this life should be wasted.

Yeah i agree 100%. That's why this work is problematic for certain individuals. You see, one may start the spiritual path to escape depression so he is seeing everything through that "depression" veil. He then finds out about reality and nihilism and has an awakening? What do you think he is going to believe? Someone in this forum can't find happiness and this is ironic right? 

I think one of the best videos is "The dangers of Spiritual work". But i haven't finished watching it.

Edited November 4, 2019 by arlin

[allislove]

Quote

Leo why do some people stop and think that "This is it" when they awaken? Why don't they think to go further?

These experiences are so terrifying, so different from a normal mode. People tend to cling to them and take it as Absolute Truth.