US Presidential Election 2020

[Annonymous]

Which politician running for President in 2020 are you voting for? Looking for which is the most conscious, and higher up on spiral dynamics.

I know I won't be voting for Trump, in the past I used to be a Trump supporter but quit supporting him the beginning of this year. I never voted for him though because I was too young to vote, currently 19 and a half so this will be my first election to vote in.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Annonymous

[Annoynymous]

@Annonymous i am not american. If i was, i would have voted for Berney Sanders.

Seems like he is the most conscious of all those who are running. 

[Ariesleith]

Bernie is the man, by far. Warrens policy for healthcare is straight up regressive. It's complex but Bernie sanders can be trusted. 

 

[Hatfort]

I think Bernie has chances to win, he is connecting well with American citizens with clear messages about universal healthcare, fair share of taxes for billionaires or worthy minimum wages for workers. If it happens, maybe it was good that Trump won on 2016, because Hillary was far from even proposing any of these things. Trump was a big step back, but Bernie can be like two or three forward.

Even if he doesn't get to implement these ideas, cause there will be a lot powerfull companies against him, he is doing a huge job in educating about them and when one day universal healthcare gets to be, he will have been a big part of it.

[Leo Gura]

@Keyhole But also notice that the POV you expressed is based on selfishness and survival.

A devil upset at devils for being devils.

See how this works?

How can you judge others for being selfish when your judgment of them is itself selfishness?

Hence selfishness prevails and not much changes.

[JustThinkingAloud]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A devil upset at devils for being devils.

Yep, fully agreed. Devils can brings the worst devils in us! haha

[remember]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Leo Gura But also notice that the POV you don`t express is based on selfishness and survival.

A devil upset at devils for being devils.

See how this works?

How can you judge others for being selfish when your judgment of them is itself selfishness?

Hence selfishness prevails and not much changes.

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by remember

[JustThinkingAloud]

31 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

An opinion on everything.  At least you're upfront about it.
 

Yep, it's up to you what you do with it. You can either use it and make your life better for it or you can ignore it and keep the same life as you have. It's all up to you!

And of course, it's completely up to me whether I'll keep sharing my "magic" or not. There's no point in doing things that people can't handle.

[JustThinkingAloud]

2 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

What gets my goat is that what people do here is what I call emotional micromanaging.  Introverted feeling, aka Fi - a large part of it is centered around morality and ethics.  That's my main function.  And the intuition that comes along with it secondarily is accurate more often than not - which is why I assume when I pick up on something, people always try to silence it in some way..
Folks here like to come in and offer unsolicited advice to people who are expressing themselves, and the realities of their own lives.  This forum will never become a place for people to connect, because so many have that same ego blind spot.  Like attracts like.

For all any of you know - someone who feels oppressed expressing that could be a healthy thing.
There something very wrong with the atmosphere of this forum, and I censor myself on here quite a bit - these interactions remind me of why.

A large portion of you think that because a person has expressive emotions that make you "awww" "feel" a widdle uncomfortable that you should manage their spiritual paths.  I don't really like that, especially with how emotionally inauthentic the forum-amalgamation-ego is.  It's like being slapped with a lie within a completely different subtext.
As for observing my devilry, I'm capable of doing that myself - I keep a private journal of my so called evil ways, and am pretty self aware, for instance, right now, this is authenticity.  Are the emotions behind it devilry?  That would be a percentage.  There is no problem with pointing out devilry as long as one is aware of their own blind spots.  I digress..

Also, you're right, opinion or no.  And so am I. 

Thank you, I love it! 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Keyhole said:

Don't decide for me my narrative, Leo.
I have animals I have to care for, I have a brother that relies on making sure that my funds are stable - I'm tired of my family giving me money when they should be saving for their own lives.  On top of this, my family guilts me for it.  
Look at your tone.  Read your comments, how you speak down to the people here.  You ARE a devil, Leo.
You are one of the WORST ones here.  In fact, I am pretty sure that some of my commentary is quite similar to a comment you made not that long ago.  What I think is probably going to happen next is that people will then decide for me what tone I am setting right now, right?

That is more survival.

You are doing survival.

That's fine. But our work here is to become conscious of how survival biases our view of reality.

Don't take it personally.

I pointed out your survival to you and you took offense (which is a doubling down on survival). Totally understandable. But it has nothing to do with truth.

It's impossible to transcend survival if you get offended about your survival being pointed out to you.

There cannot be conscious politics without awareness of one's survival biases. What your post did was unconscious politics.

Please don't make this about me. I am irrelevant.

[Leo Gura]

42 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

It doesn't just stick with self survival.  I feel frustrated on a grand scale that goes beyond my survival.

I feel frustration for those who have to deal with the same sorts of things.
It doesn't make sense to me - for society to, at one side of the coin feel that poor people are a financial imposition, and then at the same time, use whatever methods they can to keep these people from moving forward.  Essentially, the way this society is run is attempting to use various methods to murder the poor, disabled, diseased, minorities.  That is what the subtext says.  That pisses me off.
The majority of people who understand that subtext, are going to find that repugnant.  
And in that case - then the emotions are not only justified, but a possible means for some sort of catalyst of change.

What I was trying to communicate to you, and what you still refuse to see, is that all of this is still self-survival.

Self-survival is a much bigger and more sophisticated notion than simply putting food in your belly. Your entire worldview is part of your "self" and what must survive. This of course includes all your notions of fairness, justice, morality, good/bad, social justice, good government, equality, and so on.

19 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

This forum is way too toxic.  I have to leave.  Not gunna watch your stuff on YouTube anymore, either.
This place is gunna end up a ghost town before too long; I give it a few more years. 
There is a toxic atmosphere about this place that is not being addressed and or noticed.
This is a self development forum, y'all on here should find out why that might be.  Social media has a dehumanizing element to it.
Strikes me as interesting that whenever I leave social media entirely, I have these awakenings - so I think I should listen to that pattern.
Peace.

You are being a child. We are just doing the work here. Don't make this personal.

Important lessons are being taught to you right here which you still have yet to understand.

One of the most common problems I see with my students is that they learn a bit from me and then all the sudden they think they have all of life figured out and that now they know better then everyone, including me. This is self-deception 101. You have many years of learning left before you understand how deep all of this really goes. So far you have only licked the surface of this work.

Notice that no one is personally attacking you here. All that's being pointed out is your survival patterns.

What I was doing what robbing you of your justifications for your political position. Because all justifications are biased fabrications of the ego-mind. That is the lesson here.

Realize that all justification are bullshit. They are not true in any objective sense. Justifications are manipulations of the mind. This can be a painful lesson to learn, but well worth it.

Again, none of this is personal. It's just survival.

[Harikrishnan]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

You are being a child. We are just doing the work here. Don't make this personal.

Important lessons are being taught to you right here which you still have yet to understand.

One of the most common problems I see with my students is that they learn a bit from me and then all the sudden they think they have all of life figured out and that now they know better then everyone, including me. This is self-deception 101. You have many years of learning left before you understand how deep all of this really goes. So far you have only licked the surface of this work.

Yes, this is one of biggest problem in this work. Especially when you see none of your friend are doing the work, you feel a sense of superiority i developed it many times until a non self actualizing friend comes and beat you down with those zen master stick.

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

 

Notice that no one is personally attacking you here. All that's being pointed out is your survival patterns.

What I was doing what robbing you of your justifications for your political position. Because all justifications are biased fabrications of the ego-mind. That is the lesson here.

Realize that all justification are bullshit. They are not true in any objective sense. Justifications are manipulations of the mind. This can be a painful lesson to learn, but well worth it.

Again, none of this is personal. It's just survival.

 something i am studying on I also had it, people are so much in love with there ideas, why do they take everything personally even when there profile name,pic and everything are not real. Is ego(Hari) creating smaller sub ego's(whatever proxy name and pic).

Note: This are not personal remark on anyone.

And sorry for derailing the post.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Harikrishnan

[remember]

6 hours ago, Keyhole said:

@remember Hop off the bandwagon, think for yourself, use your own WORDS, you do have them, look down.  See those hands?  And go look in the mirror,  because the moment you quoted him you stuck yourself in the same category.

sorry i had a self agenda with that. and for this self agenda i didn`t care what anybody might think about me. everyone has from time to time, and no one is completely immune to that. and i didn`t just quote him, i changed a word that can mean so much.

there is a lot of toxicity to this forum i agree with you in that, and there are always phases where it undergoes awakenings to that as a group. detoxing from social media, including actualized.org is probably one possibility to leave that non self inflicted part behind.

wish you good luck if you really decide to go - so much potential in you, super creative mind and your heart is also where it belongs.

if you can`t hear it maybe you can buy a stethoscope, i just thought i should do that.

Edited November 6, 2019 by remember

[Harikrishnan]

45 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

 

And so now you believe it, because he perceives it.

 

This isn't Truth.
This is thought policing.

Last comment here.  This place is bad news bears.

I was talking about my experience of what he said. I knew it way before he wrote it coz i have experienced it from my own. At end of the day my experience is my King, if u said what he said i would have commented same coz i expeienced it i dont need to parrot leo. There are numerous post in which leo gave me punch on my face, not only leo many did it. Leo called me blue(when i thought and developing pride i was orange green in a blue country) on my views on islam in india. I was pissed but later i realized how stupid  my view was.  Now, if someone says a different point of view than mine, before getting all upset i will look into it without identifying with who iam. For that this work is done, in hearing out other point of views and not idnetifying with our ideas. 

Please lighten up

Anyway good luck to your journey... ❤

Edited November 6, 2019 by Harikrishnan

[remember]

31 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

I don't need to lighten up, I need bug spray.

i love you

you know the fractal oftentimes is just an image of reality, although the forum claims to be more elevated... the development in purple and red is still mostly underedeveloped. the good tone sometimes doesn`t serve the purpose.

if we only learn to develop our minds and the upper chakras we remain monkeys with a polished speech.

Edited November 6, 2019 by remember

[Harikrishnan]

I dont know man, i dont read or post that often. I follow here some people who i believe can articulate and give a big picture understanding of topic (this is based on how they answered my querries in post). I value this forum greatly and i have deep gratitude for it, because i dont have any other forum or sources from which this much wide variety of perspectives and knowledge is shared. I see this forums as People from different background coming together and helping themself and others growing with different views and ideas. This forum cannot always be perfect coz there are many people from many stages and many stage clash with each other, but in the end its all great and u can choose not to identify with anything and accept it as it is.

[Joyboy]

13 minutes ago, Keyhole said:

@Harikrishnan I just can't believe that some of you don't look through these sorts of threads that start off with someone making a dissenting comment, and how people here will clamber to go through pages and pages to try and force feed another person their viewpoint.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had a feeling when I made the initial comment, that it would be taken that way.  Part of me was curious if folks would allow the emotion; or if it would be stiffed for what another considers a more appropriate way to conduct their path.  I was right.  Who is to say that expressing that frustration for something that is real, and tangible to millions of people - is not a step for my own journey?

And the issue that I have - which is that there is something in this community that is lacking - is getting skewed and reframed to keep the forum-amalgamation-ego running.  The truth is, the ones here who are commenting most likely have something wrong with how they view other people's emotions, and a lack of understanding.  Like moths dancing around a lightbulb or something.  I don't need to lighten up, I need bug spray.

Go take the time to look through some of these threads, and see how it goes down, the dynamics within these different discussions.  And I encourage people to express themselves emotionally, even if it isn't moving in the direction that the majority here seems to have digested pre-chewed.  There's something abnormal about it.

You are free to express your emotion the way you want man, nothing wrong with that. But 'the lesson' (something you need to realized/learn/know) will coming back to you until you learn it ^^. Like camels bury their heads in the sand, refuse to learn. What being point out here is the camel do that for his own survival, totally understandable.

Then what next? Good luck with bug spray

 

 

[remember]

32 minutes ago, Joyboy said:

You are free to express your emotion the way you want man, nothing wrong with that. But 'the lesson' (something you need to realized/learn/know) will coming back to you until you learn it ^^. Like camels bury their heads in the sand, refuse to learn. What being point out here is the camel do that for his own survival, totally understandable.

Then what next? Good luck with bug spray

 

 

well yes, even an atomic bomb would probably not work on that kind of bugs.

Edited November 6, 2019 by remember
even though i`m generally antinuclear - and it`s all just meant metaphorically. either i learn or the other learns, i learn anyways.

[Spiral]

You guy's should definitely pick chill options, that people don't hate to much. Even if you really like let's say Bernie, you'll need a lot of votes including Republican votes and I have a feeling they're skeptical when it comes to socialism. Imagine you get some meh guy/girl that doesn't do much good or bad, it's definitely worth it compared to what you got now. Picking Joe Biden is also really risky. 

Furthermore going slooooow is the way to go when it comes to a big change like going social democratic, why? To prevent backlash and making mistakes that result in you abandoning the whole thing.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Spiral

[mandyjw]

 

11 hours ago, Keyhole said:

And the issue that I have - which is that there is something in this community that is lacking - is getting skewed and reframed to keep the forum-amalgamation-ego running.  The truth is, the ones here who are commenting most likely have something wrong with how they view other people's emotions, and a lack of understanding.  Like moths dancing around a lightbulb or something.  I don't need to lighten up, I need bug spray.

On this forum we haven't decided how to marry the insights we've had into the nature of reality with "real" life. So even if we awakened and we understand the extraordinary power of emotion, we still go along our everyday life and interactions to people with our old patterning. The patterning of one who is naturally open to emotion is going to look very different and unevolved to the patterning of one who is used to always defaulting to logic. We each have different challenges, we could help each other see through those challenges if we could see the mutual connection we have and realize that we are here for each other, in an opposite mirroring kind of effect. 

The more we focus on what we don't want, the more we get. We don't want bugs, so we mist the entire environment with DDT and we end up with worse problems than bugs. Discover then focus on what it is that you DO want.  

You want a deeper connection to exist on this forum beyond a connection of logic, of who is right or wrong or who understands reality better. You want something that goes deeper than that, something that transcends duality, something that includes and embraces emotion instead of shirking from it or slapping it away as unevolved nonsense. Who or where else on the internet could great potential for connection exist but within a community of people who is so awake? 

I have a butterfly chrysalis on my porch right now, but it has been a really long time and it hasn't hatched. Should I pull out the bug spray?