The mental breakdown

[Nahm]

@Nickyy You’re misconstruing what was said, and projecting & accusing quite a bit. Go back and read again if you like, or not. ??

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Shaun said:

 

Really folks, what this all comes down to is, am I the only observer/experiencer in the universe? Meaning that if I throw something at someone, hug them or whatever, they only appear to feel it but don't actually as I am only imagining them to feel it?

If I throw something at you, would you feel it?   

What if feeling connects us, and is shared?  Like wifi and tablets.

If the answer to this question is honestly yes, and I prove it true beyond all doubt through practices, I will blow my head clean off with a shotgun and be done with it. This will hopefully result in me reincarnating and forgetting all of this until I re-discover it, setting up an infinite suicide loop.

Relax into meditation, let everything go. There’s nothing to prove, nothing in need of proving. Put well being and how you feel first. Well ahead of these thoughts. That is the direct path. Not the thinking. 

If the answer is no, and I am just one of trillions of observers within the one reality and all the lovely folks and critters I see around me experience the universe just as richly as I do, then no problem. Business as usual, on with the meditations and doing what I can to make the world better.

Pretty heavy duality there. That is the suffering. Meditation...let it go. ??♥️

It's really as simple as that. You guys are either awesome people going about your lives, like me, even if it is all just one enormous shared dream, or you are all just illusions that I'm imagining, kind of like Rupert's cardboard cutout analogy.

Also a heavy big picture duality. The back and forth ness, this view, that view, this view, that view, that’ll exhaust ya man. It’s “solved” by letting go. Constructive learning, theory, contemplation, etc, are helpful but thoughts which don’t feel good and are nonetheless focused on, are basically blockers of realization...and just, simply don’t feel good. 

Please somebody out there see my point.

Sure feels like I see your point. Can you say the same?

 

 

[Shaun]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

If I throw something at you, would you feel it?   

Yes

 

The duality was what filled my life with boundless joy and motivation. Now the arse seems to be falling out of that foundation, putting everything into question and lots of existential terror arises as a result. I will say though that the things which would normally cause me suffering before I discovered spirituality now hardly have an effect. They have been replaced with something far more significant.

I don't fully see your point. An awakening is probably the only way really.

 

[Nahm]

@Shaun Let me preface this with - I love you, you know I do....my wife is sitting, reading. She doesn’t share your concern. No offense, but she doesn’t give two shits about any of what you are worried about. Why is that? 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

3 hours ago, Shaun said:

Really folks, what this all comes down to is, am I the only observer/experiencer in the universe? Meaning that if I throw something at someone, hug them or whatever, they only appear to feel it but don't actually as I am only imagining them to feel it?

 

If the answer to this question is honestly yes, and I prove it true beyond all doubt through practices, I will blow my head clean off with a shotgun and be done with it. This will hopefully result in me reincarnating and forgetting all of this until I re-discover it, setting up an infinite suicide loop.

If the answer is no, and I am just one of trillions of observers within the one reality and all the lovely folks and critters I see around me experience the universe just as richly as I do, then no problem. Business as usual, on with the meditations and doing what I can to make the world better.

It's really as simple as that. You guys are either awesome people going about your lives, like me, even if it is all just one enormous shared dream, or you are all just illusions that I'm imagining, kind of like Rupert's cardboard cutout analogy.

Please somebody out there see my point.

 

Yes. The one you are throwing the object at is also you. The higher self. 

You can't see this because you don't realize there is a point of view beyond your ego. 

[zeroISinfinity]

@Nahm I sense some wiredness and I love it. Never spiritual teacher Who has patience for it. Not even God. ❤️?

9 hours ago, Shaun said:

I do not believe that I'm separate from anyone. Separation is my undeniable direct experience. If I chuck the sandwich I'm eating right now at my friend, I don't feel it hitting her. There is separation of some form or another at play. 

Separation is something you Create. Direct experience is you One unitel whole Self. No play only Love. 

Just ufff I Just want to hug you @Nahm I love you so much "Jed". Always pointing in disguise to something GOOD. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[JustThinkingAloud]

You got this constant internal conflict. Unless you pick one view and discard the other one or see the truth in both views and align them, your mind won’t be happy, you confused it. I like your computer idea. Your computer needs to get recoded, you're giving it two commands that contradict each other running simultaneously.

You brainwashed yourself that everything is an illusion and others don’t exist and that’s why your mind keeps giving you this idea. Everything is an illusion because of the mechanics of how we see the world around us that doesn’t mean that the world doesn’t exist. Your loved ones do exist and they function exactly the same way as you do, having the same doubts as you do but because they lived a different life they interpret the world around them differently than you do. They don’t watch Leo’s videos. So you can say that you interpretation is an imagination because other people interpret it in different way and it’s not exactly the same as yours.

Your mind is also giving you idea that you’re separate and other people do exist. I see it this way. Our body is made up of trillions of cells, each cell does it’s own “business” while they are all part of one human body, working together to make the body to work and don’t need to be aware of all other cells or the body as a whole (some of them can go astray and cause damage and need to get “cured”). What is happening to you is that you realized that you’re a part of human body and don’t know what to do with it. It still hasn’t changed the fact that you’re this little cell and that other cells do exist. You just realized something that we might not be meant to realize. Now, see how each human is a cell and humankind is the body, we are all “connected”.

Your really need to figure this one out otherwise your head will keep going in circles and you won’t be able to be happy. Put it in your own words and apply it to your “imagination/interpretation” of the world around you.

Edited October 30, 2019 by JustThinkingAloud

[JoshuaBell]

Stop trying to find meaning for that which has no meaning. You’re making something out of nothing. You might be frustrated at this point because no matter how hard you think you will not be able to put Being into a box and be like “oh that’s Being.” You literally have to just Be! 

First, what is an enlightened being? How do you verify whether someone is enlightened? When does someone become enlightened? Do you become enlightened after meditating an “x” number of hours? Or having an “x” number of awakenings? Or is it right in front of you? Or does enlightenment even exist? Can it just be that it’s a concept and that you realizing it’s just a bunch of fluff your mind sticks together with glue (figuratively speaking) is enlightenment, which contradicts the fact that enlightenment doesn’t exist? Which means it does exist and doesn’t at the same time? Interesting.

Also how do you know for sure all enlightened beings are happy and peaceful? Observe how your mind jumps to conclusions, makes assumptions about things it cannot possibly fathom or comprehend. 

You have this idea that enlightenment is this happy fluffy cloud that you could never possibly attain. In reality it’s right in front of you. It’s so fucking obvious that you overlook it completely. It’s literally right here. This is it!

Don’t take my word for it, verify this for yourself. 
 

Also, does Jesus exist or does he only exist because I just brought him up? Is it possible that he only exists when you are imagining him? And in that same vein you are imagining you are a human being, having a human experience, living a mundane human life, asking me (which is really just You), why enlightened beings are happy despite soul crushing realizations of Truth? Hmm interesting. If this post illicits any emotional response from you as you read, then that is perfect. Observe the need to attack me or prove me wrong. Or anxiety or depression or sadness or rage or any emotion on the spectrum. One of Leo’s videos for me had the same effect except I started laughing at my own tragic misery. The misery of being human. And the ultimate joy of transcendence. Thank you for reading thus far. Let me know what you think. Hopefully this post planted some seeds in you, not to take what you have for granted. And also to question everything, especially your own existence. Then maybe if you do enough of the work you’ll get a glimpse of the Truth. And ultimately of the transcendental nature of reality. Again perhaps I am wrong. Even now I question the validity of what I said. I encourage you to question me as well. Do not take what I say for the Ultimate Truth. You already know the Truth, all you have to do, is KNOW THE TRUTH! It’s so counterintuitive and simple that you overlook it. 

[Shaun]

12 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Shaun Let me preface this with - I love you, you know I do....my wife is sitting, reading. She doesn’t share your concern. No offense, but she doesn’t give two shits about any of what you are worried about. Why is that? 

Most likely because I imagined it so. I've no idea why I would imagine you to appear happy with being alone. That's the weird thing going on here. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Shaun

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, Nickyy said:

You should learn humility and learn to take 100% responsibility for not being understood. Saying that someone else is misconstruing and projecting is just regular unconscious common all garden behaviour

If only it were that easy. It is readily seen that you are not understanding what was said, and spinning another duality, as your focus shifts to comments about ‘my oneness’ etc. I pointed out a duality you’re holding of you and ‘life’. As incomprehensible as it may seem, that too is you. When one leaves the topic, for personal ‘oneness’ attacks there is no communion or potential for understanding. All that was uncovered was an ulterior motive. When you take a conversation to linguistics and language itself as the shield, well, it’s clear there’s no use in any more words. 

[zeroISinfinity]

4 hours ago, Shaun said:

Most likely because I imagined it so. I've no idea why I would imagine you to appear happy with being alone. That's the weird thing going on here. 

Stop building convictions about teachings. ?

Practises make All the difference. ♥️

Like Infinite amount of difference. ♥️

[Eu Sint]

20 hours ago, Nickyy said:

you have no experience of oneness either. So I don't expect you to have seen through the phantom nature of the false self and it's illusionary emotions. You seem to still be in the head messing around with trying to deconstruct language and words. Enlightenment is a body thing, not an intellectual pursuit. 

You tried too hard to prove to nahm that you were right in everything you said and even appealed to accusation.What did you want to achieve with this? Maybe you want , we recognize the state of enlightenment you reached? How do you know that he has not experienced oneness and what is the evidence that you have experienced oneness?How can enlightenment be a matter of the body , fellings, states or even of the intellect? You do not have to answer these questions, just give yourself some time and reflect deeply with honesty and unbiased.?

[Shaun]

5 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

In my experience and reading other teachers descriptions of oneness, I can tell you that it's a feeling (as I've described). The feeling comes when the phantom self has expanded for a moment. I have read nothing about other definitions of oneness. So I infer that the geezer has no idea what he's talking about. It's evident.

 

Oneness is a feeling, it's got nothing to do with breaking natural boundaries into one. When I had enlightenment experiences I still am aware of proprioception (distance between objects) but I didn't have to think about it. Divisions are natural, they cannot be merged into one. That's not spirituality in any book I've read on the subject.

 

Not trying hard to achieve anything, just saying that he's wrong because the op asked a question about enlightenment and I answered it honestly 

 

 

Your explanations on the subject are actually quite beautiful, not dark or solipsistic at all.

[Eu Sint]

 Shaun, have look at this image which Leo put it on his blog, for a better approximation of what nothingness looks like. If you have not read the post yet, enter the blog and read it, you can find it there with this title “What Does Nothingness Look Like?”

Try to give a name to that.How you name it.? 
 That= Nothingness=Everything=Unity=Oneness ?

[Aeris]

22 hours ago, Shaun said:

Really folks, what this all comes down to is, am I the only observer/experiencer in the universe? Meaning that if I throw something at someone, hug them or whatever, they only appear to feel it but don't actually as I am only imagining them to feel it?

 

If the answer to this question is honestly yes, and I prove it true beyond all doubt through practices, I will blow my head clean off with a shotgun and be done with it. This will hopefully result in me reincarnating and forgetting all of this until I re-discover it, setting up an infinite suicide loop.

If the answer is no, and I am just one of trillions of observers within the one reality and all the lovely folks and critters I see around me experience the universe just as richly as I do, then no problem. Business as usual, on with the meditations and doing what I can to make the world better.

It's really as simple as that. You guys are either awesome people going about your lives, like me, even if it is all just one enormous shared dream, or you are all just illusions that I'm imagining, kind of like Rupert's cardboard cutout analogy.

Please somebody out there see my point.

 

I give you an answer.

it's neither A , neither B , neither C

it's all of them, and none of them.

and there is an object inside a world constitued of mind.

but mind is prior.

it's not dramatic that all is prior to thought "nothing(cosmos/experience) x feeling = words ", you lived so far this way, nothing changes, but don't cling to any ideas, they are all full of shit, cause the mind is a machine creating ideas ( all is imagined, but all is real )

real is imagined is the same.

all is the same, unless you create the distinction, ( or everyone agree on the distinction )

doesn't mean, I m not real.

Physics cannot answer, listen to some ideas of physics, you'll know, that no one knows.

so the answer to what is reality, what is me : no one knows, but it is "nothing at first, then it is everything".

in fact reality is not a single truth, it's an infinite ammount of possible truth, but maybe they are some "linear / scientific truth" we just don't know.

All the meaningless shit will say, reality is nothing, or being, they point on the fact that we cannot know for sure anything ( proved by "quantum particles" ) etc etc..

but the true true true true truth.

is that your mind is a creating tool, there is no reality perceived, but it is perceived.

we cannot translate knowledge properly with words, cause word are per default, bug & biased through interpretation.

everything is an interpretation, doesn't mean, there is not a better/more true.

 

reality is we don't know anything at all. Don't cling to ideas, they are mist.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Aeris

[Shaun]

2 hours ago, Aeris said:

I give you an answer.

it's neither A , neither B , neither C

it's all of them, and none of them.

and there is an object inside a world constitued of mind.

but mind is prior.

it's not dramatic that all is prior to thought "nothing(cosmos/experience) x feeling = words ", you lived so far this way, nothing changes, but don't cling to any ideas, they are all full of shit, cause the mind is a machine creating ideas ( all is imagined, but all is real )

real is imagined is the same.

all is the same, unless you create the distinction, ( or everyone agree on the distinction )

doesn't mean, I m not real.

Physics cannot answer, listen to some ideas of physics, you'll know, that no one knows.

so the answer to what is reality, what is me : no one knows, but it is "nothing at first, then it is everything".

in fact reality is not a single truth, it's an infinite ammount of possible truth, but maybe they are some "linear / scientific truth" we just don't know.

All the meaningless shit will say, reality is nothing, or being, they point on the fact that we cannot know for sure anything ( proved by "quantum particles" ) etc etc..

but the true true true true truth.

is that your mind is a creating tool, there is no reality perceived, but it is perceived.

we cannot translate knowledge properly with words, cause word are per default, bug & biased through interpretation.

everything is an interpretation, doesn't mean, there is not a better/more true.

 

reality is we don't know anything at all. Don't cling to ideas, they are mist.

It's all just endlessly confusing. I might just stop all meditation/seeking and just live in the present no matter what I'm doing. It's so much simpler that way.

[Shin]

On 29/10/2019 at 11:21 AM, Shaun said:

If absolute truth will cause a complete mental breakdown and utterly destroy my life as Leo puts it, why are enlightened people so happy and at peace? 

A mental breakdown can only happen to a self that believes in the thoughts it experiences.

If the thoughts and the mind are seen as what they are, a mental breakdown is not possible for your true self, only for the illusion that the true self experiences.

So even if it happens, it's the illusion that experiences it, not you.

An awakened being sees that so clearly that suffering becomes literally impossible, even if the illusion that it incarnates has a mental breakdown.

Edited October 30, 2019 by Shin