The mental breakdown

[Nahm]

3 minutes ago, Nickyy said:

You're right, there isn't a subject that identifies with an object. But there is when identification is happening.

It seems like it yes, but ‘identification happening’ isn’t an actual separate self. 

There is a self inside a body. That's the perception, and that's what the opposite of the liberated state is. 

Are you saying there’s a ‘self inside the body’, as in a soul? 

You say there isn't a subject and object, but that just sounds like you're denying that there is a thing called identification.

Saying one thing doesn’t inherently deny something else. Linguistically, often, yes. Not actually. 

Identification is real, very real. It's just not real when one is connected to reality.

Real and even very real is meaning / thought derived, as is not real. (Duality) 

The reality is that identification never even happened, but you can't really talk in that way, it doesn't really help anyone grow. 

Up to you, no? In the context of this convo, who’s helping, who’s being helped? 

Life is indeed living while being observed.

To what do you attribute this life which is living, other than what is “observing”?  This sound like a twoness. 

There is a difference between the liberated observer and the mechanical impersonal forces of the physical universe.

In the perspective there is a difference sure, ultimately, no. One. 

To say that there is a duality there is just getting fancy with words.

Well what the heck else are they for? ? Every word implies duality. 

Duality is the state that is experienced during identification.

It's a feeling, an underlying fear of being separate from the world, from life, from others. That feeling feeds and upholds the false, needy self that identifies with a body and takes this world personally and seriously as if it can control it.

It’s thought. ‘state’ is a thought which seems to reference the thought.  Unless you have felt the ‘state of no feeling’. 

When that is seen through then the fear ends and the false self is seen for what it was, a phantom. And the accompanying emotions as phantom energies.

Not denying your experience, I just have no experience of phantoms, in this object sense. Again, might be a matter of word usage. 

Yes, one can experience what reality is,

One (subject) what reality is (object). 

what I've just described is reality,

Reality is describing reality. 

reality is the absence of the false self and the fear that governs a person's life during the identification period.

And reality is the false self and the fear that govern’s a person’s life during the identification period. 

 

[Nahm]

@Shaun If this isn’t interesting, sorry for the hijack.

[Nahm]

@Nickyy Perhaps there’s a message in it’s blankness. ?

??

[Nahm]

@Nickyy Not sure why the blankness. Just do a regular copy and paste (vs ‘quote’ function). 

[Shaun]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

The happiness & peace are the truth. There is no mental breakdown to fear, that is conditioning talking. The significant nuance in the “my life” is the my.  Life continues, but life is not ‘yours’, you are what life is. 

A thought about perception isn’t direct experience of perception. It’s perception and a thought about perception. 

Would you rather be the one hit with the sandwhich, or the one who threw it? Notice there is some connection there with regard to feeling. It might be subtle, or undetectable currently. Meditation, every morning, and it won’t be too subtle for too long. 

There is the movie, or appearance level of the sensation of the sand which hitting the body, and there is the screen, being, sensation for having thrown something at someone. 

"There is the movie, or appearance level of the sensation of the sand which hitting the body, and there is the screen, being, sensation for having thrown something at someone. "

So it's kind of like my experience and point of view of throwing and her experience and point of view of being hit with are not actually separate, they just seem to be?

 

You're not hijacking at all if it's helping people.

[Danioover9000]

Yes, not all enlightened masters are happy. They still have shadows.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

If youre throwing a sandwich and hitting someone else it doesnt mean there is a separation from you just because your body doesnt feel it. All appearances of the sandwich being launched and hitting another person are all part of your sensations, whether it be sight, sound, smell, ect. 

Just because your body doesn’t feel the “touch” sensation when the sandwich hits the other person doesn’t mean its separate. Thats ranking the importance of certain sensations based on your own ego and social conditioning, not the actuality of the matter, where all sensations are equal.

The same way you cant make objects materialize at will, there are rules. If you cant make a unicorn appear in front of you, you will say “See i cant make a unicorn materialize at will” but the image of the unicorn is still appearing in your mind. The whole thing was nothing more than thought which does exist.

Edited October 29, 2019 by TrynaBeTurquoise

[Shaun]

Really folks, what this all comes down to is, am I the only observer/experiencer in the universe? Meaning that if I throw something at someone, hug them or whatever, they only appear to feel it but don't actually as I am only imagining them to feel it?

 

If the answer to this question is honestly yes, and I prove it true beyond all doubt through practices, I will blow my head clean off with a shotgun and be done with it. This will hopefully result in me reincarnating and forgetting all of this until I re-discover it, setting up an infinite suicide loop.

If the answer is no, and I am just one of trillions of observers within the one reality and all the lovely folks and critters I see around me experience the universe just as richly as I do, then no problem. Business as usual, on with the meditations and doing what I can to make the world better.

It's really as simple as that. You guys are either awesome people going about your lives, like me, even if it is all just one enormous shared dream, or you are all just illusions that I'm imagining, kind of like Rupert's cardboard cutout analogy.

Please somebody out there see my point.

 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Shaun

[MusicalPotato]

11 minutes ago, Shaun said:

Really folks, what this all comes down to is, am I the only observer/experiencer in the universe? Meaning that if I throw something at someone, hug them or whatever, they only appear to feel it but don't actually as I am only imagining them to feel it?

 

If the answer to this question is honestly yes, and I prove it true beyond all doubt through practices, I will blow my head clean off with a shotgun and be done with it. This will hopefully result in me reincarnating and forgetting all of this until I re-discover it, setting up an infinite suicide loop.

If the answer is no, and I am just one of trillions of observers within the one reality and all the lovely folks and critters I see around me experience the universe just as richly as I do, then no problem. Business as usual, on with the meditations and doing what I can to make the world better.

It's really as simple as that. You guys are either awesome people going about your lives, like me, or are just illusions that I'm imagining.

Please somebody out there see my point.

 

You just got it dude. I'm not real in your reality. Solipsism is probably it, look it up, it is exactly what you described. I'm legit so proud right now because you are enlightened my dude. No powers, not even peace lol. Just know that you are God and my guess is that at death you become the sole (soul lol) consciousness there is and restart it all. Applause to you my friend, (or me I know I'm just talking to myself). Have a great day

[MusicalPotato]

 

 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Shaun said:

 

I will blow my head clean off with a shotgun and be done with it. 

No, you won't. I have no power to stop you, it would just hurt us all immensely if you were to go like that. Depression is fucked but I believe there is always something to live for. Sex, drugs, evil, money, are all valid life goals and reasons for like. If you really are that low, just fuck it all and be a hedonist. Stop meditating. Just please promise me you won't take your life. It won't end I can PROMISE you that with 100% certainty. Consciousness is all there is.

[Inliytened1]

8 minutes ago, MusicalPotato said:

You just got it dude. I'm not real in your reality. Solipsism is probably it, look it up, it is exactly what you described. I'm legit so proud right now because you are enlightened my dude. No powers, not even peace lol. Just know that you are God and my guess is that at death you become the sole (soul lol) consciousness there is and restart it all. Applause to you my friend, (or me I know I'm just talking to myself). Have a great day

Its not solipism.  Solipsism states that only the ego mind exists.  

Its Solipism as God or universal consciousness.  Yes you are alone but as God not the ego.  There is a distinct difference.  That won't comfort @Shaun of course - but it is what it is.

What he is also missing is that as God he is imagining everyone else including his little self.  He isn't imagining them as Shaun.  And as God he has also divided himself and is being all and everything simultaneously - so that from his little Shaun perspective there ARE other people.

It is relative to perspecive.

Are you guys seeing how this works....

Edited October 29, 2019 by Inliytened1

[VeganAwake]

It's because they don't resist life they just live it. 

When the constant monkey chatter of the mind is quieted life can be very enjoyable.(no mind)

?

[Shaun]

31 minutes ago, MusicalPotato said:

No, you won't. I have no power to stop you, it would just hurt us all immensely if you were to go like that. Depression is fucked but I believe there is always something to live for. Sex, drugs, evil, money, are all valid life goals and reasons for like. If you really are that low, just fuck it all and be a hedonist. Stop meditating. Just please promise me you won't take your life. It won't end I can PROMISE you that with 100% certainty. Consciousness is all there is.

We will see what happens if and when I have a really deep awakening to absolute truth. Until then, no suicide will take place as I am currently in a state of not knowing. I will NOT throw away my life at this point as it may impact others.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Shaun

[MusicalPotato]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Its not solipism.  Solipsism states that only the ego mind exists.  

Its Solipism as God or universal consciousness.  Yes you are alone but as God not the ego.  There is a distinct difference.  That won't comfort @Shaun of course - but it is what it is.

What he is also missing is that as God he is imagining everyone else including his little self.  He isn't imagining them as Shaun.  And as God he has also divided himself and is being all and everything simultaneously - so that from his little Shaun perspective there ARE other people.

It is relative to perspecive.

Are you guys seeing how this works....

I disagree, I know solipsism isn't enlightenment, it's just the best theory to illustrate my point that your consciousness is all you could possibly be aware of. I definitely know I am God, in fact I feel intense deja vu just typing this post and in a lot of areas of my life because I know that this is all eternal and always happening. I am always this person, and if I become someone else at death, I will have always been them, to infinity and beyond. News flash, you aren't real Inlytened1, there aren't other people. You are it. Entertain the fact that you might be God, even for a second, even if you stop believing it afterward, it doesn't change the fact. Atoms have almost infinite space inside of them, whenever you look at another person you are effectively looking through them, only seeing them because that's how Mind works. Good luck.

[MusicalPotato]

32 minutes ago, Shaun said:

We will see what happens if and when I have a really deep awakening to absolute truth. Until then, no suicide will take place as I am currently in a state of not knowing. I will NOT throw away my life at this point as it may impact others.

I think awakening is being held up on a pedestal in your mind, like it will be profound and lifechanging. It honestly isn't imo, but to some, the nature of it seems that way. Just know that I am Shaun, not MusicalPotato, and you are well on your way. Also you are too cute to die, please live because you got some good genes.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, MusicalPotato said:

I disagree, I know solipsism isn't enlightenment, it's just the best theory to illustrate my point that your consciousness is all you could possibly be aware of. I definitely know I am God, in fact I feel intense deja vu just typing this post and in a lot of areas of my life because I know that this is all eternal and always happening. I am always this person, and if I become someone else at death, I will have always been them, to infinity and beyond. News flash, you aren't real Inlytened1, there aren't other people. You are it. Entertain the fact that you might be God, even for a second, even if you stop believing it afterward, it doesn't change the fact. Atoms have almost infinite space inside of them, whenever you look at another person you are effectively looking through them, only seeing them because that's how Mind works. Good luck.

We aren't really disagreeing its just subtle distinctions.

I know it is One - and it's only me.

But it's me as God not my little finite self.  That is not the same as solipism - look it up.  Moreover from the egoic perspective you can actually play in the dream as if there are other people.  And in that way it actually becomes so from that perspective - as reality (you are reality) is completely relative and subjective.  In other words reality is just shifts in perspectives.    You are doing it right now because you are in duality  in fact that is how duality is created.

As God i cut my finite self off from other parts of myself in order to create duality or limitation.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Shaun]

I've represented it here as best as I can. Basically the sphere is infinite consciousness/ the universe and as such can't actually be called a sphere. The marker right in the centre is just my ego/point of view. Other egos/people are nothing more than my thoughts and labels projected on to the one and only experience represented by the marker?

Edited October 29, 2019 by Shaun

[MusicalPotato]

20 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I've represented it here as best as I can. Basically the sphere is infinite consciousness/ the universe and as such can't actually be called a sphere. The marker right in the centre is just my ego/point of view. Other egos/people are nothing more than my thoughts and labels projected on to the one and only experience represented by the marker?

Yes, that could be a good representation of reality, just keep in mind that real truth is not something humans can fully comprehend, just speculate about. We might have already figured it out in the best possible way to explain it or we aren't even close. From your viewpoint, you are just your thoughts, and that actually makes sense to me because how do we know this isn't just a matrix with tactile feedback created by us? This is really hard to conceptualize but I think you are on the right track. Existence existed before the big bang so that the big bang could exist. It is trippy. Drugs can help you feel more like the only thing in the universe. Dmt is good for this tho i've never tried it. I got a similar feeling to how dmt is described by the drug in cough syrup, dxm. I wanted to go out of body I just went further inside of myself. I want to go again it was hell but it was so fun.

Edited October 29, 2019 by MusicalPotato

[Shaun]

5 minutes ago, MusicalPotato said:

Yes, that could be a good representation of reality, just keep in mind that real truth is not something humans can fully comprehend, just speculate about. We might have already figured it out in the best possible way to explain it or we aren't even close. From your viewpoint, you are just your thoughts, and that actually makes sense to me because how do we know this isn't just a matrix with tactile feedback created by us? This is really hard to conceptualize but I think you are on the right track. Existence existed before the big bang so that the big bang could exist. It is trippy. Drugs can help you feel more like the only thing in the universe. Dmt is good for this tho i've never tried it. I got a similar feeling to how dmt is described by the drug in cough syrup, dxm. I wanted to go out of body I just went further inside of myself. I want to go again it was hell but it was so fun.

I will never touch a psychedelic again. For now I will stick with Rupert Spira's model of reality where there's once consciousness and each person is just a temporary finite mind or dimension of experience within it, a bit like an infinite sponge and each of us are like a bubble of emptiness within. It's less bleak and makes more sense to me. Maybe I will know for sure one day, or maybe not.

[MusicalPotato]

24 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I will never touch a psychedelic again. For now I will stick with Rupert Spira's model of reality where there's once consciousness and each person is just a temporary finite mind or dimension of experience within it, a bit like an infinite sponge and each of us are like a bubble of emptiness within. It's less bleak and makes more sense to me. Maybe I will know for sure one day, or maybe not.

Cool, stick to his if it helps you understand and conceptualize, just question it severely and in the end cling to your own understanding, which will make more sense to you and get you farther than anyone else's. Even poke holes in his theory. Anything you think is probably true in the end.