Reality/god is meaningless

[arlin]

I am having some difficulty understanding why You guys give such meaning to this work. 

You all agree that this experience is an illusion. There is no "i". I can conceptually understand that. 

However, that sense of "i" gives rise to the experience that then becomes "my life" as if i am expetiencing something. Ad it "all of this" is happening to an "i". 

When You come to understand that the "i" is an illusion, you also understand that you can not really know reality if there is still an "i" there. 

So what you do? You say: "Ok, since i understand that. I have to find a way to dissolve the " i", then i can know the truth for what it is". And this is what you do, you use psychedelics to achieve this. 

When you do psychedelics, you have that experience. You see things for what they really are. Then your "i" comes back. And of course thinks he knows what it was seen. 

Somebody says: "This was absolutely terrifying". Leo prefers to say: "This was absolutely fantastic". 

But you see, this is a duality. This is just an interpretation that the  "i" imposes on that experience. 

So when you come back, you think you know what you saw. But of course you don't. What you saw was meaningless. 

It is not there for anybody. It just is. 

It is not wonderful, unconditional love, an incredible intelligent design. It is has not a greater scheme. It is not a bigger picture. It is not even meaningless. It just is. It can't be described. 

Now why are you all guys giving such meaning to those king of experiences? 

Why does leo talk about all this "wonderfull" things, which can be all a fairy tale? 

The way i see it, is that when you die, it's done. Never has really happened. Nothing needs to happen.And nobody will understand this.

It Just is. For no one. 

Leo keeps saying that this work is not for you, it's not for your survival.

But when he comes back from his tripps, he says all sorst of things that are pleasurable to his ego. 

 

[LastThursday]

5 hours ago, arlin said:

When you do psychedelics, you have that experience. You see things for what they really are. Then your "i" comes back. And of course thinks he knows what it was seen. 

That's an astute observation. 

When you wake up from your sleep and remember your dreams, did they really happen? Did they really mean anything?

The point of having mystical or psychedelic experiences, is not actually for the experience itself. It's for the after effects - the things that permanently change after the experience has gone. So you do it for the permanent change in your experience of the present moment, nothing more.

[Nahm]

6 hours ago, arlin said:

You all agree that this experience is an illusion.

That’s the thing...it isn’t an illusion.

[SoonHei]

7 hours ago, arlin said:

You all agree that this experience is an illusion.

you are walking down the street and see that there is a snake which has bound itself at the bottom of the tree to the left and the right of the road.

such that it's creating a tripping hazard.

when you come closer, you see that it wasn't a snake... it was a rope!

the snake was an illusion

 

7 hours ago, arlin said:

I am having some difficulty understanding why You guys give such meaning to this work. 

seeing that there was no snake... there is still the tripping hazard. so you simply step over it and navigate it safely so you don't trip when crossing the road.

 

the meaning is given to the work so that we can learn to better navigate and live in this illusion

drop the fear/scare of the situation and do what needs to be done

no reaction, only action.

travelling lighter

 

 

 

 

 

ILLUSION does not mean UNREAL-FAKE

it simply means that it's not what it appears to be - that changes the whole deal. don't it.

 

illusion is a poor translation in English of the word MAYA ...

illusion means NOT-What-It-Appears-To-Be

 

@arlin

Edited October 28, 2019 by SoonHei

[arlin]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

That’s the thing...it isn’t an illusion.

Are you trying to say that the "I" is illusory, but the experience is not? If there is not an "I" there is not an experience happening.

 

1 hour ago, LastThursday said:

When you wake up from your sleep and remember your dreams, did they really happen? Did they really mean anything?

The dreams now that i awoke, are filtered through my current state and understanding so i am distorting the perception of what really happened to me.

I think that this is the problem, you are trying to put meaning to that dream from a distorted POV. Meaning can only happen when there is an "I" that attaches meaning to everything. We all know reality is empty, has no meaning. So how can you be sure to say that that emptines is love when you are deriving those conclusions from a distrorted POV? 

So yeah you might say the using psychedelics is just a way of further uncovering the illusion. 

But this will never work. Because it will never end. We all know it's infinite.

 

@SoonHei I think my objections are more about being god. Like you think you are this infinite god that has this incredible design and is all loving and when your human form dies, well it goes on forever. 

When in reality, this are only meanings that you give. Why don't you just say: "It all just is. And is empty." Why not stop there but loading it with all those different meanings? Aren't this attempts of the ego trying to disguise truth?

Edited October 28, 2019 by arlin

[Inliytened1]

@arlin you are conflating nothingness with meaningless.  Reality is Infinite therefore it must be formless.  But it is Infinitely loving and Infinitely intelligent.  And infinitely Good.  That is your truest nature.  Your truest nature is also Oneness.  So your ego and God are in fact One.   You can have direct experience of this - i am not just regurgitating what another teacher has said - i have had direct experience / consciousness of it.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Inliytened1

[arlin]

4 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

But it is Infinitely loving and Infinitely intelligent.

But since it is infinite, it is also infinite hate and infinite stupidity.

 

[Inliytened1]

Just now, arlin said:

But since it is infinite, it is also infinite hate and infinite stupidity.

 

It can make itself unconscious which it must create duality for yes.  But what does that have to do with anything.  Are you asking why does it do that?

[LastThursday]

6 minutes ago, arlin said:

The dreams now that i awoke, are filtered through my current state and understanding so i am distorting the perception of what really happened to me.

See, the problem is deeper than you think. 

How do you "really know" what happened to you, when your perception of what happened is distorted? In fact, how do you "know" your perception is distorted? 

It's not like you have a clean and clear and truthful version of what happened and a distorted version to compare with each other.

So say you have a psychedelic trip and lose your identity and become one with god and so on. You then come back down to normality and you have a dualistic ego driven experience. Which one is distorted, which one is truthful? You can't experience both at the same time.

 

[SoonHei]

@arlin arlin. yes, it all just is.

but are you yet in the state where you can be OKAY WITH all being just as it is?

if you own a car, that you drive to work each day...

actually, no, let's say it is your work, you do UBER... and you do it, cuz you gotta pay bills to live in the place where you do, to get food to eat so you can stay alive etc etc...

and you see someone stealing the car... THAT IS JUST WHAT IS. you car is being stolen.

you can sit there and accept it, it is as it is. but this will follow that you cannot earn anymore. which also just is...

and so on.

 

but you gotta assign meaning to that car and to NOT being okay with someone stealing it. because in your current circumstance you have a body, need a place to live which needs rent money and food to eat which needs money and that car which earns you that money.

 

all the while, knowing it's all a dream.

but dream can be a good dream or a nightmare.

if you ask someone you know if they had a choice for having good dreams for the rest of their life or nightmares, what will they pick?

 

knowing the truth of it all allows you to not be attached to the outcomes and result, but doesn't mean you don't jump outta the way if a truck is incoming...

you're learning to navigate your world better.

 

19 minutes ago, arlin said:

Aren't this attempts of the ego trying to disguise truth?

no... it's you, knowing the truth and integrating it to dream good dreams and not nightmares.

once you know it's all a dream/illusion/not-what-it-appears-to-be

you learn to let go trying to change many aspects which will do nothing but "upset" you otherwise.

and when you stop trying to change things and allow them to flow naturally, it manifests only beautifully... mirroring your understanding. no fear or worry on your mind = only good comes your way

 

sure, diseases, losses etc will still come. your body will die at the end. but you will learn to flow with it all.

[arlin]

53 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

It can make itself unconscious which it must create duality for yes.  But what does that have to do with anything.  Are you asking why does it do that?

Does it have a choice to make itself unconscious? Can't it be like this because it can't be no other way?  Does he even have a sense of self? Or is it just pure isness without self?

54 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

It's not like you have a clean and clear and truthful version of what happened and a distorted version to compare with each other.

So which one is valid? 

 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, arlin said:

Are you trying to say that the "I" is illusory, but the experience is not? If there is not an "I" there is not an experience happening.

Pure consciousness, from the relative thought based perspective, is “nothingness”. It’s not that the I is an illusion, it’s that the I is real, pure consciousness. It’s not that experience is illusory, it’s that experience is real, pure consciousness. 

A thought about an I, is a thought about an I. Awareness of the thought, is awareness of the thought. 

The pure consciousness, pure awareness...vibrates, to form itself, as the form we call, a thought. The same pure consciousness, pure awareness, because it is pure consciousness pure awareness, is also aware of the thought, conscious of the thought. 

You are what is aware of, conscious of, the thought. And, you are the thought. 

Why can’t that “click”, why can’t that “make sense”?

Because you’d first have to believe the thought, is not you, but a separate thing, called a thought. Then, you’d have to believe the thought - is about you. Now, in this position of believing the thought is about you, you forget that you are the awareness of the thought and the thought, and you believe the content or implication of the thought, is you. 

But wait just a dang second here...I am this body thought!  I have a past, and that makes me who I am!! I can’t be my thoughts, because they are MY thoughts!!!

(Those are examples of thoughts one might believe)

...and it mother f’ing does MAKE SENSE...because “Makes sense” = Makes Sens-ation, makes feeling. “Makes Sense” does not equal “Makes more thoughts”, nor “Makes Understanding”. 

[zeroISinfinity]

@Nahm Had another "Cosmic" encounter and there is a message you are right. Turn your life into fairytale. See it in such way. 

Maybe I went crazy but no no no. Hahaha. I am setting myself up with every Word I say it is so crazy. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Nahm]

@Nahm

Now take away the words...”pure consciousness”, “pure awareness”. And replace them with...me. 

Now take away the word, the label, the definition, the term... “me”.

And now there’s, nothing. 

So take away the word, “nothing”.

There’s no self reference. 

And now take away the term, the meaning, etc,  “self reference”.

 

@zeroISinfinity The only thing I am right about, is hippie chick is well on her way. You best be ready cause she’s a bigger trip than me. 

[arlin]

@Nahm OK. So consciousness is all there is. I am it. 

But why do some people here say its an illusion?

[arlin]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Nahm

Now take away the words...”pure consciousness”, “pure awareness”. And replace them with...me. 

Now take away the word, the label, the definition, the term... “me”.

And now there’s, nothing. 

So take away the word, “nothing”.

There’s no self reference. 

And now take away the term, the meaning, etc,  “self reference”.

 

I can go on for ever. 

I know you are trying to tell me is not something i can understand but that i can feel.

[Nahm]

10 minutes ago, arlin said:

@Nahm OK. So consciousness is all there is. I am it. 

(Could just be semantical here but for good measure...you can not be it. Otherwise......)

Yep......and now I’m going to believe a thought and it’s implication, it’s content....

....” But why do some people here say its an illusion? “ 

If you wanted to know if an illusion is an illusion, you most certainly can not take the word of the illusion. After all, in regular definitive terms, what is an illusion? 

 

8 minutes ago, arlin said:

I can go on for ever. 

Cause you’re infinite too! 

I know you are trying to tell me is not something i can understand but that i can feel.

Yes, absolutely. 

Consider the perspective, that the punchline is that you are “understanding” also. 

If you want to understand understanding, you most certainly can not take understanding’s word for it. After all, in regular definitive terms, what is understanding?  As you read the definition, are you not the understanding?

 

[Nahm]

?

[zeroISinfinity]

6 minutes ago, arlin said:

I can go on for ever. 

I know you are trying to tell me is not something i can understand but that i can feel.

Yes logical egoic mind can't understand. Good thing is that you can feel What you really are. 

[DoubleYou]

2 hours ago, SoonHei said:

ILLUSION does not mean UNREAL-FAKE

it simply means that it's not what it appears to be - that changes the whole deal. don't it.

 

illusion is a poor translation in English of the word MAYA ...

illusion means NOT-What-It-Appears-To-Be

Thanks for this.
I never resonated with the word illusion, but this makes a lot more sense. ??