From orange to green. Perspective needed.

[Rigel]

So something interesting as happened yesterday. I was at a family dinner and all sort of arguments started to pop up. Such as the environment, politics(in canada) and to an extent some xenophobic ideas about muslims.

I could have just shut up and let the thing happen but I decided to expose some green ideas to my mostly orange family. No need to tell you that they didn't like that. The main blockage that I noticed was that they used their old age to validate their position. As in: I lived through a lot of stuff therefore what I believe is true and what you(me) think is bullshit because you are 20 years old. They are telling me that when I grow up I will understand that I was deluded. They believe that the whole ecological movement is just a trend that will die out.

I am willing to admit that they lived through way more stuff than I did and they surely know more than me about how to manage survival within the current system that we live in but I honestly can't buy into their ideas anymore. It just seems so silly to believe that(and I am retelling what I heard yesterday) poor people in less developed countries are responsible for the ecological crisis and that our hedonist lifestyle here in the West isn't. And at the same time cultivating hate and fear for those people so that we make sure that they do not come here and corrupt our way to live with their beliefs. 

The level of self-reflection is very low and I am a bit lost as to how I can handle those types of situations. On one hand I understand that they are where they are and I can't push green ideas onto them without serious backlash. On the other hand I genuinely feel sad about our unsustainable way to live and I would like to do something about it. I feel like the resistance toward moving up into green is HUGE. I feel like there is no concern at all for what is happening outside of our family. My dad told me that he is willing to make effort for the environment as long as it doesn't compromise his own confort.(By confort I mean all the material stuff like bad food, alcohol, entertainment, shopping, technology. I personally couldn't care less about that so there is a huge gap between them and me. I am trying to find a common ground but I can't find any.

By the way I consider myself mostly green with orange and yellow in there.

[Jungian_Proxy]

Are you sure they are even at stage orange?

Stage orange can certainly be very competitive and argumentative. And since it is an individualistic stage, it doesn't like restrictions. (Especially not the ones from stage green that directly evolved from stage orange and therefore is very well aware of its problems.)

However, when stage orange people argue, they usually do so mostly with (assumed) empirical facts and "intellectual" (but not necessarily academic) arguments.

Using the authority of age and experience seems more like stage blue to me. (Which is a collective stage as opposed to stage orange.)

Also, the comments about survival and what parts of the world are responsible for something (territorial and nationalistic thinking) are in my eyes unlikely to be made by someone at stage orange (at least not without a structured argument supporting them).

Remember, stage blue also doesn't understand green thinking and might perceive it as delusional and out of touch with reality. Just like for example a clan at stage purple might not appreciate or understand the institutions and systems of a stage blue society ("Why are they trying to organise shit all the time?! I'm just trying to secure my next meal! They are completely out of touch!").

If they really are still arguing for stage blue, then they have likely stagnated in their development at some point in their lives. This can happen through identification with the ego for the means of survival. The ego doesn't let you go anymore once you are "safe". When it has no reasonable objective anymore, it just spreads like a cancer, making one fight shadows and internal battles but stagnating in reality.

There isn't really a lot you can do about that, for many people that's just the norm of life.

[Arthur]

That's unfortunate. I find myself in a similar situation with my parents and the older generation in general. Their minds are very rigid from habitual conditioning. Not blaming them for it, it's just the culture they grew up in. When society has been predominantly Blue, they might have made the transition from Blue to Orange. That's a big step actually. It's the same leap as transitioning from Green to Yellow. They probably did their best and now just cruising through life. 

I find that being pushy doesn't help, just causes more backlash. It's better to only occasionally nudge them in the right direction, by asking counterintuitive questions, or making small remarks. The biggest one will be to lead by example - live your life in a Green way, and they will start to integrate it. Also, don't depend on them too much, because they will slow you down. I would start living on my own (if you aren't already), only visit occasionally and maybe throw a few ideas here and there.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Arthur

[Adam M]

Hey! Reading your situation was like looking into a mirror! I am 19 and have sure had my fair share of dinner-table arguments about silly stuff like politics and university. My parents are fairly young and liberal leaning, but their level of development is mostly ORANGE/green.

This is a good opportunity for you to explore one of the chief challenges of being a stage-green individual in an orange society. That is, the belief that every single person is ready to move up to stage green and that you are a superior thinker and more empathetic human in general. In a way, this perspective is partially true, which is why it's so difficult to reconcile. 

 

As I have been moving more and more towards Yellow, I am a lot less emotionally triggered by the myopia and unexamined positions that are put-forth by my parents and by others in society.

The best thing you can do in this situation is to expose yourself consciously to your own reactions to their stage-orange ideology. You are not ready yet to begin to try and "change" the thinking of another. Most people do not want to hear new ideas, especially if they are more nuanced and subtle than the beliefs they already hold.

Basically,  use this experience as fuel for examining your own egoism (devilry) in action! Try not to project onto others even though they will surely be projecting onto you.

 

Cheers! 

[Aeris]

Nature is you and others.

If nature create Donald Trump it's ok.

If you want to destroy the human race that's ok too

If we all die that's ok too

Only the ego want to escape ideas that include his body death.

 

They just protect their ego from corruption.

Why not hanging all day on twitter. What if twitter pop on your phone.

You become racist of twitter. Actualized.org was better.

 

You can be egocentric for becoming more World centric.

Maybe my single life has the power to save billions humans from slavery.

Hence all things for my ego stability are goods for the World.

If I die twitter win.

 

Btw we don't change people by arguing. but with others perspectives in their deck. Put their own ideas in reversed through metaphor of the situation they can understand.

 

[Leo Gura]

@Rigel Stop wasting your attention and energy on herding mules. Instead focus on acing your life purpose. Make your impact on the world through your LP, not dinner table talk. Be smart about how your go about changing the world. Find the right audience.

[Rigel]

@Adam M

Thank you for the great perspectives everyone. 

 

 

[DrewNows]

@Rigel Don’t try to change people, But if they are open you can share info that may help them want to change, sometimes it may only take a simple question or sharing another POV, but if you’re attached to this other view (or taking a position) as Adam says then it may not come out right and you’d be better off learning from yourself 
 

People need to feel understood or they won’t be receptive and may feel attacked