Ranting about the implications of the realization of life's potential meaninglessness

[blankisomeone]

This post is just a long stream of consciousness thing... Sorry if it's confusing to follow.

I watched Leo's video about the dangers of spiritual work. For those of you who haven't watched it yet, the video is basically about how if you're not ready for deep spiritual work yet, it's best to take a step back and reconsider and be careful, because playing with spiritual work is litereally playing with life and death, therefore it's a dangerous thing and you have to be fully willing to go into it.

In this video its said that YES LIFE IS MEANINGLESS ALRIGHT, BUT THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. But I shouldn't - and I can't, and I refuse to - blindly believe in that statement. Whenever I hear that life IS meaningless, I get a bad feeling. A very deep feeling that things aren't right. A feeling that YES LIFE HAS MEANING, IT HAS TO HAVE, OR ELSE WHAT THE HELL ARE WE LEFT WITH?

Meaning is nothing but a projection of the ego. Our eyes, our brains, our development, all points towards meaning. We look at a chair, we don't see a chair, we see an object on which we can sit, to rest, to socialize, to work, to study... we give that chair meaning right away, our brain does that right away. We see what things mean even faster than we see what they are. When I meditate, however, when I look at a chair and I try to see it for what it IS rather than what it MEANS, I see a void. A see meaninglessness. I see darkness and sadness and depression. OF COURSE IT HAS A MEANING, my ego screams right away trying to survive. OF COURSE IT HAS MEANING, WE SIT ON IT, WE SIT WITH FRIENDS, TO TALK, TO HAVE A BEER, TO HAVE A GOOD TIME, WE SIT ON IT TO STUDY TO THINK, TO REST, TO WAIT, TO WAT. But, c'mon ego, it HAS no meaning, stop kidding yourself. WHAT DO U MEAN THERE'S NO MEANING SHUT UP OF COURSE THERE'S MEANING WHAT THE HELL ARE U TALKING ABOUT? Well... isn't meaniglessness what the bare data tells us? A bunch of atoms glued together to create this object, onto which our brains later come to atribute meaning. If this brain didn't exist, if YOU didn't exist, screaming ego, this chair wouldn't have a meaning... it literally woudln't even exist. You'll die one day, you know? So the evidence is pretty clear that there definitely is no meaning and you're just kidding yourself... YEAH BUT-- BUT-- WAIT-- THERE IS MEANING MAN, SHUT UP I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY STUPID CONSCIOUNESS TRYING TO BE ALL LOGICAL IF THERES NO MEANING IM DEAD SO WHAT THEN? Well, so what? so what, nothing. Nothing matters, you can die... idc, no one cares. NO BUT THERES MY FAMILY AND MY FRIENDS AND ALL THE GOOD THINGS AND THE COFFEE AND THE CHOCOLATE AND THE WORLD AND THE FLOWERS AND THE SUNSET AND MUSIC AND ALL THAT SHIT, LIFE IS GOOD AS FUCK MAN, I DONT WANNA DIE I WANNA LIVE. Well, alright, you can live... but, there is no meaning in the end, accept that... no matter how much you wanna live and no matter how much you suffer and no matter what you do, you will end up dying anyways. WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT?? WHAT DO I DO NOW THEN??? HUH??? GIVE UP EVERYTHING AND KILL MYSELF?  well, u could do that and it doesnt matter. It actually, really, truly, deeply, doesn't matter. YES IT MATTERS, IF I KILL MYSELF MY FAMILY WILL COLLAPSE, MY PARENTS WILL BE DEVASTED FOR LIFE, MY FRIENDS WONT UNDERSTAND, ALL MY POTENTIAL IN THIS WORLD, ALL THE PEOPLE I COULD HELP, ALL THE GOALS I COULD ACCOMPLISH, ALL OF THAT WILL CEASE TO EXIST SO I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY, BUT I REFUSE TO ACCEPT THAT ITS ALL MEANINGLESSNESS. Well, believe what you will my friend, but in the end it IS meaningless.

I'm not sure where I'm getting with this and what my point is. I'm trying to get somewhere.

Let's assume that its true: life has no meaning. Our biology, our brains, attribute meaning to things. Truly, meaning isn't there. If it's my brain that gives meaning to things, if my brain ain't there, there ain't no meaning. What do I do about that? If life is meaningless anyways, could I kill myself? Well, yeah... it doesn't matter anyway. But I don't wanna kill myself. I want to live, man... I want a job and I want to travel the world and meet new people. But how do I go about doing those things even though I know that they're meaningless? Oh and suffering, why should I suffer? If I wanna travel the world, I gotta suffer to make money to travel the world. If I wanna have good relationships I gotta suffer to make them work. If I wanna get my degree at uni I gotta suffer through the years to come.

But WHY would I suffer? Well, to travel the world, to have good relationships, to get a degree.

But those things are meaningless, right? Yeah...

well, so why would you suffer a real suffering to get something meaningless? But the suffering isn't real either.

Well, it surely feels real to me. So if the suffering feels real to you, then you assume it's real. And if the meaning you attribute to things feel real, then you must assume they're real too, and life does have meaning 

true.. so, what my brain creates, is that real? like, if its my brain that gives things meaning, and nature selected it to be that way, then it must be real, right? i mean... meaning has got to be real... well, I don't know, you figure that out.

 

What if meaning isn't real? What if I realized that? Would I go around killing people? Would I go around eating junk food, lying in bed day in day out, having sex with a bunch of people all the time, walk around naked, lash out on people when I'm mad, act out the evil in me? Well... I don't WANT to do those things. But evil makes a lot more sense than good. Life seems to be a big joke played on us, so the fact that we don't just go around killing everyone seems like such a MIRACLE. AN ACTUAL FUCKING MIRACLE. I have all the reasons to make horrible things, all of us, all of us have the greatest potential for evil, and the fact that most of us don't act it out is A MIRACLE...

So there has to be meaning... there HAS TO BE... right?

I know that there is no actual meaning. But I refuse to accept that, because I'm scared of the implications of that realization for society. And for my life. And I refuse to accept it so deeply, that the meaning seems real. Even though I KNOW I'LL DIE AT THE END, AND THAT WE'LL ALL DIE, I refuse in the deepest parts of my being, in the deeps part of my soul, in the deepest parts of my biology, I refuse to accept life's meaninglessness, I refuse to accept the eternal void, because I don't know what I'd do if there is no meaning.

It's funny that the more I write the more things become clear to me even though I can't clearly express them.

I went to the cemetery last week with a few family members because we had to get the bones of another family member that had passed away a few year back exhumed. If you don't know, exhumation is the process of removing a body or the remaining bones from the place where it is buried, put it in a box, and bury it somewhere else to make space for other bodies to be burried there. Y'know, cemetary bureaucracy.. pretty morbid. Anyways, the point is, that we went to the cemetary, and I saw the bones. I saw the guy that worked in the cemetary dig up the bones and put it in a box. And I felt very alive... Looking at those bones my brain bugged out. I didn't know what to make of what I was seeing... Those are bones, actual bones of a person who existed, and now doesn't exist anymore. I felt deeply alive, I felt deeply grateful for being alive. I was happy that my neck was hurting at the time (at least I was alive to feel the pain). I was very very grateful. I was also deeply sad, because I didn't know how to handle the fact of life's meaninglessness... anyways, just a little anecdote of this wonderful family reunion in the cemetary last week lol.

i'm gonna stop writing here... I'll come back other times if I feel life putting my thoughts out there. I'll get on with life now. Go back to my studies, go back to exercising, go back to reading, go back to maintaining my relationship with my family and friends, go back to watching series on netflix, go back to parties, social events, academic life and job hunt (even though life's ultimate meaninglessness is a given fact)... I don't know why I'll go back to my ordinary life... but i will...

Edited October 22, 2019 by blankisomeone

[traveler]

Yeah you have to deal with the implications of this truth yourself. I think everyone on the spiritual path has had a taste of what you are talking about. It's just your ego fighting for it's life though, it's not you.

Who says you can't enjoy or be grateful for life without meaning? Take a look at your experience; when you're having a good time or when you're deeply in touch with something you're doing or creating is there any of this stickyness called "meaning" around? Are "you" around?

Have you ever had a good time with someone and noticed your mind wasn't around to commentate on what was happening? Was there any meaning there, or were you just enjoying the moment as it was?

Meaning correlates with hope. Everything must mean something so it can lead to some big event in the future that will fulfill the thing I feel is missing. There must be a meaning for all of my suffering, and some day in the future there will come an answer that will end all doubts and questions. That event will never come. It is imaginary and it keeps the suffering and lost little you alive.

Does a chair need a meaning? Does your experience need a meaning?

Edited October 22, 2019 by traveler

[Nahm]

♥️

[blankisomeone]

@traveler

32 minutes ago, traveler said:

There must be a meaning for all of my suffering, and some day in the future there will come an answer that will end all doubts and questions. That event will never come. It is imaginary and it keeps the suffering and lost little you alive.

LMAO! I don't know why but I love how this has been articulated. I just read what you wrote, and after reflecting for a few minutes something clicked and I just burst out laughing out of relief. Thanks, I hope I can keep what I just felt fresh in my mind..

[traveler]

2 hours ago, blankisomeone said:

@traveler

LMAO! I don't know why but I love how this has been articulated. I just read what you wrote, and after reflecting for a few minutes something clicked and I just burst out laughing out of relief. Thanks, I hope I can keep what I just felt fresh in my mind..

That's great, I'm happy to hear that! 

[Danioover9000]

   At least you got it out of your head.

[Leo Gura]

Being is prior to meaning. Just let it go.

What you really want is being, not meaning.

[blankisomeone]

@traveler

5 hours ago, traveler said:

Take a look at your experience; when you're having a good time or when you're deeply in touch with something you're doing or creating is there any of this stickyness called "meaning" around? Are "you" around?

Yeah it's true. One of the greatest moments for me are when I'm out with my best friends, when I'm deeply immersed in a book, when I'm studying a different language (which is something I'm passionate about), when I'm listening to electronic music that makes me feel hyped, when I go for runs, when I'm having a good conversion and things are flowing, when things seem to be going right and smooth... BUT THEN, BAM!! SOMETHING BAD HAPPENS AND NOW I'M SUFFERING (or maybe nothing BAD actually happens, but I get paralized with fear of the future, overwhelmed with things like the immensity and enormity of life and my powerless weak small self in comparison , etc). When THAT happens, now I'm hungry for meaning, I need meaning to keep on living. Meaning feels like a very important thing, and all the good moments that I mentioned earlier feel meaningless, because when you're desperate, nothing feels real anymore (for example when we get ourselves into a depressive funk we need a deeper meaning than what usually gives us pleasure to get out of it, that's why when we feel depressed, even the things that used to give us pleasure doesn't give us pleasure anymore, because the meaning doesn't seem real)

So I need something deeper than meaning to sustain myself. Well, Leo gave me the answer that what I really want is being, not meaning.

@Leo Gura

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

What you really want is being, not meaning.

I still gotta work to figure out what that "being" is... I need to figure out what will sustain me on this planet when meaning isn't there to help me out. I gotta find out what the heck this being is, how to embody it, and if it's enough and conclusive. I've had glimpses of it, of this "being" that comes before "meaning", but it feels so fleeting. It feels very real at first, but quickly it disappears. So it feels like it's a lie, even though people say that it's supposed to be the realest real can get, the truest Truth can be. Why is it so fleeting for me tho? Why doesn't it seem eternal? I hope you know what I mean.

But yeah I gotta get my shit together first before I dig deeper into it. I'm 20 years old and still very dependent of my parents. I'm very scared of the future and of the financial part of my life, etc. That's standing on the way. I'll try to just go with the flow and not give up.

Edited October 23, 2019 by blankisomeone

[Leo Gura]

18 minutes ago, blankisomeone said:

I need to figure out what will sustain me on this planet when meaning isn't there to help me out.

That's your confusion right there.

You have spent your whole life trying to gain advantage for yourself, but you are not even real.

This work is not about helping yourself out. This work is about realizing you are not real.

What you're looking for is Love, but Love is not found in meaning, it's found in being and selflessness.

Your problem is that you are fundamentally addicted to selfishness, which disconnects you from Love. Meaning is part of your selfishness which you must learn to let go.

You are desperately avoiding emptiness. Yet emptiness is the only thing that can ever satisfy you. So you're stuck in a catch-22.

[VeganAwake]

Stop resisting what is... it's as simple as that. Inhale life into your very being ingest it and just experience it.

Edited October 23, 2019 by VeganAwake

[remember]

@blankisomeone LOOK AT ME and now i`m telling you, your post is the missing link i needed to not completely loose myself in this forum. i even cried because you remind me of myself before i let myself get completely taken apart by this forum. stop searching for answers here, you already have them all! And the ones you don`t have you won`t need to get through conversations here. at first it`s amazing but in reality it`s shallow DON`T SEARCH FOR MEANING IN THIS FORUM.

"WHENEVER I HEAR THAT LIFE IS MEANINGLESS, I GET A BAD FEELING. A VERY DEEP FEELING THAT THINGS AREN`T RIGHT."

i didn`t read such wise words for a long time, and that`s exactly why you should not get entangled in these conversations which will tell you that what you already have and they have not or not anymore is meaningless - because the ultimate sensemeaking if you try to understand what they are saying would be life is meaningless because there is only being and no meaning in life, that`s what your brain will recive subconciously. and it will suck you dry. so do what you wanted to and try to not answer to any conversation anymore, this is a forum of addicts, who all try to make some sense of the lost meaning, some really need to in the first place and they might gain something here. but exactly because you are a meaning maker the forum will try to suck you in. it`s like a giant ego in itself which involves you in countless conversations, in a self feeding loop. don`t get hooked by mentionings like catch 22 or anything else, these are interesting concepts about life, a catch 22 is someone who is cought up in meaninglessness of taking orders to kill (in war) or taking any orders blindly (or worse in full conciousness) from above but can`t really break out from because of the structure of the whole societal hirarchies. meaning and meaninglessness, if you already know what MEANING is don`t try to search for it here, it`s a place where people loose it. Search for meaning in MEANING = BEING (being here is not being).

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by remember

[Display_Name]

It doesn't have a meaning. It's utterly empty, and enlightenment is the end.

[JustThinkingAloud]

Isn’t it great that you can create your own meaning? Nobody imposes any meaning on you, it’s your creation. I chose happiness for everyone!