Question For the Awakened

[King Merk]

I have a question for y'all enlightened folks out there. 

 

Perhaps this is just a paradox that I can't grasp yet... but wouldn't strengthening the ego through personal development make it harder to awaken?

For example, knowing your core values, studying your personality type, developing hobbies, pursuing a life purpose and any other domain of self discovery, aren't these things all building up the ego? Strengthening the self image? And by developing the self (ego) wouldn't that contradict the whole self destruction process of realizing no self/enlightenment and make the process harder? Like you're walking in opposing directions at the same time?

I'm simultaneously building myself up just to break myself down and it's fucking with my mind. Pls halp. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by King Merk

[Forestluv]

Haha great question. That’s one of the paradoxes. How can one transcend an ego if there is no ego to transcend? I spent many years in PD developing a healthy sense of self. When I got into awakening work, someone told me “your ego is strong enough that it could be killed. You’ve got a shot”. I didn’t know if it was a compliment or an insult. Lol

Yet I suppose there comes a point of diminishing returns. Trump’s ego is so big and strong, I can’t see how it’s gong down.

There are some teachers, like Lisa Cairns, that teach both nonduality/awakening and personal development. It doesn’t necessarily need to be mutually exclusive. 

[Kalki Avatar]

21 minutes ago, King Merk said:

I have a question for y'all enlightened folks out there. 

 

Perhaps this is just a paradox that I can't grasp yet... but wouldn't strengthening the ego through personal development make it harder to awaken?

For example, knowing your core values, studying your personality type, developing hobbies, pursuing a life purpose and any other domain of self discovery, aren't these things all building up the ego? Strengthening the self image? And by developing the self (ego) wouldn't that contradict the whole self destruction process of realizing no self/enlightenment and make the process harder? Like you're walking in opposing directions at the same time?

I'm simultaneously building myself up just to break myself down simotaneously and it's fucking with my mind. Pls halp. 

Yes and no at the same time. 

It depends the source its coming from. If you are not fully awakened yet, it will make ego stronger. 

After complete self-awakening, then you can still have hobbies that may be help you develop and others like sports, Martial arts, painting, music etc. Habits would not be unconcious, but just a concsious routine to make progress on a certain goal. Your purpose could even be to have no purpose at all and just experience this life through this body and mind to its ultimate level. And personality creation is the root of ego, this is identifying with everything that is not you and carrying it out like a golden shiny amor that is useful occasionally. But instead, in a concious manner you can choose thoughts and feelings for certain social situations and give the illusion of a personality without having one in order to not be awkward and be a better communicator. 

So yes, personal development in that sense contradicts spirituality since it consists of more karma and junk for the subconscious. Nevertheless, even if this strenghtens the ego it can help you on a superficial level and then you can deconstruct ego but it will be more work. If you just fully awaken you will have everything at one shot. 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Kalki Avatar

[Inliytened1]

@King Merk it is a circle.  From duality you must become conscious of non-duality.  Then from non-duality back to duality.  Completing the circle is realizing duality was non-duality the whole time.

 

[SoonHei]

It works both ways.

 

I think bhakta means identified as EGO surrendering to God

And jnani means as the true Self.

[EvilAngel]

The ego is created moment by moment by thought. Personal development helps create a healthy ego - as in a healthy self-image, which is unquestionably a good thing. You need an ego for day to day functioning, and a solid sense of self is important, otherwise you would be a quivering wreck. Awakening does not get rid of the ego, it just makes one aware of it. 

You can create a beautiful painting of a flower and appreciate it for what it is (a painting) , all the while realising that it is not the actual thing it represents (a flower). 

So you can create as big and strong an ego as you like, but just be aware that it is not real. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by EvilAngel

[VeganAwake]

Jesus says: Unless you are born again you shall not enter into my kingdom of God.

A kind of rebirth is needed. The ordinary birth is the birth of the bodymind mechanism, but your spirit is only a potential - it has to be actualized. Abraham Maslow has called this process self-actualization. Gautam Buddha would call the same process "no-self actualization." Abraham Maslow has no idea of the ultimate; he is thinking about it, speculating about it. He has stumbled upon a certain truth, but he does not know how to express it. He has not experienced it himself; it is only an intellectual understanding, hence he calls it "self-actualization."

But in that ultimate flowering the first thing that disappears is the self. In fact, the self is the only barrier for that flowering. The self is the hindrance, not the help. The self surrounds you like a wall; it is not the bridge.

When you are really born, born to life or to God - to me both are synonymous - you are no more, no more as you understand yourself to be. A pure emptiness prevails, an utter void prevails, a silence which is soundless. A music is there certainly, but without any sound. The Zen people call it the sound of one hand clapping. That no-self is your original face. When you are not, you are, and you are for the first time.

If Abraham Maslow had experienced the ultimate state of flowering he would never have called it self-actualization; he would have called it "no-self actualization." You are born as a self, as an ego. This is the seed and the seed has to disappear before the sprout can start growing. The seed has to die in the soil; then and only then the life that is hidden inside the seed will start manifesting itself.

[mandyjw]

There's a difference between building great habits and strengths and building up one's IDEA of those great habits and strengths. A person who possesses them does not have to define himself by them.  

Occasionally you may need to let go of a strength to see who you really are, maybe by choice of maybe because life makes you. But we can learn to maintain, build and fully appreciate a talent or strength we have knowing that the I it sometimes appears to be moving through is an illusion. 

[VeganAwake]

@King Merk

This is an amazing video that does a great job describing some of what you have been asking.

Yes you're right it's a falling away process not a gaining of knowledge... I like the way Osho explained it:

The further the distance is from your current self to your future self is more space for the ego to grow. 

Great inquiries ❤ ❤

[Nahm]

13 hours ago, King Merk said:

wouldn't strengthening the ego through personal development make it harder to awaken?

What is the source of strength?

For example, knowing your core values, studying your personality type, developing hobbies, pursuing a life purpose and any other domain of self discovery, aren't these things all building up the ego?

Is ego the core value?

Strengthening the self image? And by developing the self (ego) wouldn't that contradict the whole self destruction process of realizing no self/enlightenment and make the process harder? Like you're walking in opposing directions at the same time?

If lost in the dark, would a candle or the sun be most helpful?

I'm simultaneously building myself up just to break myself down and it's fucking with my mind. Pls halp. 

Attune, align, address, find accord - in sensation. 

 

[inFlow]

In this work ego is great. The bigger or the worst it is, the better the letting-go of it will be. The better the transformation, more tears and joy. And after that you will still use ego elements in the daily life.

But there's a catch to this. You might not get enlightened in one swoop, it may take you dozen of years and in those dozen of years you will get so many ego backlashes that it will make you sick of all of the enlightenment work. Also I read that you can get deep insights and yet still not lose the ego that you are attached, that can be horrific experiences. You will want to lose it, but the ego resists. All in all you have to have something in order to lose it. Have a big ego so it could impact you more. Have you ever seen criminals going spiritual? That's a big transformation