Interesting perspective on the illusion of free will

[Forestluv]

15 minutes ago, Synchronicity said:

I didn’t say it was my definition of desire. I said it was the definition that I’ve found within this particular conversation.

By going through your personal filter, it becomes your relative definition. It’s relative. There is no objective universal reality. Someone else with a different filter would interpret differently. 
 

Fun video. Some nice realms to explore and cool insights ? 

[Forestluv]

There was a user @Faceless that had some deep posts on desire as a movement. 

[Synchronicity]

9 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

By going through your personal filter, it becomes your relative definition. It’s relative. There is no objective universal reality. Someone else with a different filter would interpret differently. 
 

Fun video. Some nice realms to explore and cool insights ? 

The video’s 27 minutes... so you didn’t watch the whole thing...

This is what I’m talking about. Why do you assume things before analyzing someone’s points fully?

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Synchronicity said:

The video’s 27 minutes... so you didn’t watch the whole thing...

This is what I’m talking about. Why do you assume things before analyzing someone’s points fully?

Good grief ?. I didn’t claim to write an “analysis” of your video. I gave you a compliment and I assumed nothing. I actually think you are exploring some cool realms and have some nice insights. Not based just on the video, but your other posts. Do you want me to write a “full analysis” of all your points to justify that I think you have some nice insights? Will you grade my analysis?. . . .C’mon. . . 

And notice how you yourself are assuming I didn’t watch the whole video. You previously posted that video on the forum. You are assuming I haven’t previously watched it.

And it’s not just intellectual analysis. There are empathetic and intuitive modes that can allow a being to recognize others quickly. I don’t need to watch 27min. to recognize realizations in another - realizations that I’ve already realized. A being can quickly recognize if someone is speaking English and can quickly recognize facets of awakening that they have embodied.

[Michael Paul]

My intention with starting this thread was to give a challenge to many people’s underlying assumptions about the cause of human behavior. We can get caught up about who understands what about what I said. I personally thought that my OP was as concise and clear as it could be about what is colloquially known as “desire”. We don’t have to get into an argument over semantics to have a thought provoking conversation about the topic.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Michael Paul

[Nahm]

@Synchronicity Was just kidding around with the reference. Hopefully you got a good laugh. I think your videos are great btw. Been a subscriber since day one.

 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Michael Paul said:

 

Also what’s your opinion on desire in general? Do you think it runs our lives or that we can exert a non-causal control over our desires?

It’s wonderful, the feeling and nature of it.    Is desire really an ‘it’, which could run anything?  Control & exertion assume a subject object relationship, but are you the subject, and desire is an object?

[Synchronicity]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

@Synchronicity Was just kidding around with the reference. Hopefully you got a good laugh. I think your videos are great btw. Been a subscriber since day one.

 

No worries @Nahm! Thanks for remaining peaceful throughout this whole discussion! 

[Michael Paul]

7 hours ago, Nahm said:

It’s wonderful, the feeling and nature of it.    Is desire really an ‘it’, which could run anything?  Control & exertion assume a subject object relationship, but are you the subject, and desire is an object?

Whoa that was pretty deep. Now we’re getting into interesting territory. I think desire is somewhat obscure because we’re not always aware of our desires in the moment. And onto your point about the subject object relationship, very interesting insight. The two are actually one from my point of view, so this duality collapses upon further inspection. Just my two cents ?

[Mason Riggle]

It seems useful to view 'freedom/no freedom' as a paradox, or duality, just as you would view 'nothing/something' (non-existence/existence).. 

Why is there something instead of nothing? Isn't it the case that the very notion of 'something' only makes sense in light of it's opposite, which is 'nothing', and the opposite is also true.. what do we mean by 'nothing'? Well, this 'nothing' concept only has meaning when contrasted with it's opposite, which is 'something'.  

'No freedom' is what we find when we see only one side of the paradox. Side A) For any purely determined system, there can be no deviation whatsoever in the 'unfolding' or 'playing out' of that system.  Zero Freedom.  But what we also find, is that this 'seemingly determined' system is also 'seemingly infinite', and given this 'unconstrained' nature of the determined system, every possibility has the potential to play out.. Side B) infinite possibility.. a.k.a. freedom.. a.k.a. God/you/everything.. 

This type of 'infinite freedom' doesn't really make any more Universal sense than 'no freedom' does, and so it is that this 'free will/no free will' duality arises, a yin/yang situation, which seems to be the same way 'nothing' divides itself up, becoming 'something'. 

If you are fine with paradox, the 'free will/ no free will' conundrum just becomes another, 'of course that's how it is.. both are true, and not, simultaneously'.    

[Nahm]

@Michael Paul Awesome! Now, collapsed...what do you make of the op? 

[Michael Paul]

18 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Michael Paul Awesome! Now, collapsed...what do you make of the op? 

I’m starting to think that desire may not be the only determining factor of our behavior. But it definitely plays a significant role in our ability to even make decisions in the first place.

At the end of the day, this is all just a big word game since the ego self is illusory in the first place. I find it fun to play with these ideas though.

 

[Nahm]

@Michael Paul If the ego self is illusory, what is desire?

[Mason Riggle]

14 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Michael Paul If the ego self is illusory, what is desire?

Perhaps 'desire' is nothing more than the path of least resistance.  Water flows in the direction it 'desires' to flow.. the water doesn't 'have' desires.. it flows according to 'desire'.. the path of least resistance. 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Mason Riggle

[Nahm]

@Mason Riggle That feel true, right, for you? Is there really any response there?