Online Dating

[universe]

@Forrest Adkins What do you mean with boring stuff?

Have you ever noticed that the "cool" kids in school talk about boring stuff all the time. Communication has more layers than the words you say.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Peo said:

What challenges do women go through when dating men? I would love to understand that, because I'm not a women. 

If i had to take a guess i would say that they have to have big tits and a nice body to get more option with men. 

Again, you're still thinking about this using your dick.

The biggest challenge girls face is that they get pumped and dumped.

It's easy for a girl to get laid. The hard part is getting a quality guy to commit to her.

Imagine how you'd feel is every time you met a cool guy, he fucked you and left to pursue hotter girls.

And then on top of that all your friends would think of you as dirty slut.

[Ananta]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Imagine how you'd feel is every time you met a cool guy, he fucked you and left to pursue hotter girls.

And, this is exactly why girls, once they smarten up (usually they get used once or twice), are selective as hell and make the guy wait before having sex. 

So, its guys ruining it for other guys!

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

And, this is exactly why girls, once they smarten up (usually they get used once or twice), are selective as hell and make the guy wait before having sex. 

So, its guys ruining it for other guys!

Mating is an arms race.

Both sides manipulate to get the most they can while trying to minimize their survival risk.

There's nothing personal about it. It's just unconscious selfishness.

[Ananta]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Mating is an arms race.

Both sides manipulate to get the most they can while trying to minimize their survival risk.

There's nothing personal about it. It's just unconscious selfishness.

True, true...

Men doing pick-up that cry and whine that the girls aren't nicer or are being picky need to understand this. 

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Anna1 said:

True, true...

Men doing pick-up that cry and whine that the girls aren't nicer or are being picky need to understand this. 

It's doesn't serve them to understand it. They just want their needs met.

[Ananta]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

It's doesn't serve them to understand it.

Good point!

[Pudgey]

@Forrest Adkins Firstly, I think your lack of success is mostly due to your mindset. Your friend may be getting 100+ matches, but he is not converting on them all, most likely less than 5% at BEST (if not less than 1%). That means the majority of women from Tinder are terrible leads. It is like running a marketing agency for restaurant owners, but the leads you are getting are from 100 different verticals and niches. Eventually, you will close on 1 out of 100. 

In perspective, there are many different variables at play. 

From experience, I've had days with 50+ matches with an average face picture. I didn't show my height or physique (at the time, I was pretty skinny with a good frame). A close friend of mine at the time, average-looking (not ugly, not model-like) was able to get a few matches from a Tinder with a bio strategy I showed him. The point is, it is very possible to get matches without being great looking.

But, as Leo said, you need GREAT photos. The reason is far less to do with you being UGLY and your friend being "white and masculine" but with: 

Their algorithm being corrupt and greedy. 

They turned their matching algorithm into a greedy scheme that will intentionally give men fewer matches in order to push them through Tinder Gold and other microtransactions. I have an account that was almost at 500 matches, I was charged less for Tinder Gold compared to a fresh account I made. That means they are arbitraging men with fewer matches, especially those who are new to Tinder (no matter how good looking they are). Tinder wants to maximize money, not user-experience. Tinder also shadowbans users. If a woman reports you for any reason, you are just as good as dead. 

Therefore, you need MULTIPLE dating apps to maximize success. 

Most men do not treat talking with women as getting traffic into a funnel. If I succeed with Facebook advertising, why wouldn't I try Twitter or Linkedin ads? If my friend became successful with Facebook, I wouldn't envy him - I'll just keep experimenting and trying new things that need to work for me. If you find a way to get matches, you will eventually have girls WANTING to come to your apartment simply from number game. But, it takes massive action and volume. Download OTHER dating apps. 

[Display_Name]

On 11/4/2019 at 11:08 AM, Leo Gura said:

This your self-biased projection.

You have no objective understanding of the challenges of dating for women.

Challenges of dating, sure. I was only talking about sex, and online (tinder, instagram) in particular.

 

On 11/4/2019 at 11:14 PM, Leo Gura said:

The biggest challenge girls face is that they get pumped and dumped.

That's actually been happening to me a lot
Lot's girls actually wanting just one night stands these days, atleast where I live in Berlin. 
"Hot Girl Summer"

I would say pumping and dumping is outdated. Only the most sexually abundant men can "afford" to do it. That's why the concept is prevalent in pop culture, in combination with movie Chad's and rappers and such. Most guys DO want a regular girl, returning girls, or a girlfriend. In fact most guys are so sexually deprived that they will get very clingy to the girl(s) they do manage to sleep with. THAT's a challenge girls face, sleeping with a guy that turns out to be beta and clingy.

And the other big challenge in my experience, as you mentioned, is slut shaming. Slut shaming from guys, but also, more under the radar, slut shaming from other girls.

I do know my experiene is self biased though and I reaffirm my own beliefs, that's a given.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Display_Name

[Ananta]

4 minutes ago, Display_Name said:

That's actually been happening to me a lot

Then, make them wait, if they want you for more then just sex, they'll wait. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Display_Name said:

Challenges of dating, sure. I was only talking about sex, and online (tinder, instagram) in particular.

You cannot atomize these things. They are deeply interconnected.

That is the chief delusion men have, they want to treat sex and relationships as indepedent variables where for women it is not like that.

You can have some quick sex and run off. She has to worry about dealing with a pregnancy. But of course you don't care about that risk as much as her.

Sex for men and women is not symmetrical as men assume.

[mandyjw]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You cannot atomize these things. They are deeply interconnected.

That is the chief delusion men have, they want to treat sex and relationships as indepedent variables where for women it is not like that.

You can have some quick sex and run off. She has to worry about dealing with a pregnancy. But of course you don't care about that risk as much as her.

Sex for men and women is not symmetrical as men assume.

Women commonly get cervical cancer as a result of having multiple partners as a result of being infected with HPV. That's why the HPV vaccine was developed but that only helps younger generations. We still don't know for sure how safe that vaccine is and many parents still don't vaccinate their girls and boys.

Having casual sex is almost never worth the risk for a woman. It's not just that her friends will think she is a whore, she is actually engaging in reckless behavior taking in account everything. The views of sex and the normalcy of hookups that our stage orange society has is absolutely mad and ONLY favor men, even if it's sometimes sold as empowering for women, it's not. If men actually care AT ALL for women they would intend to have long term sexual relationships or have no sexual relationships. Anything else just perpetuates real risk, frustration and misery for everyone involved. Just because technology and medicine has come up with a few terrible bandaid solutions to a few of the risks women incur by having casual sex, does not make things equal. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 6, 2019 by mandyjw

[Leo Gura]

@mandyjw Let's also be real though, many women still love to sleep around.

Attractive women have lots of sex.

[mandyjw]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@mandyjw Let's also be real though, many women still love to sleep around.

Attractive women have lots of sex.

People love to do a lot of things. People like to compulsively eat ice cream but that doesn't make it a wise decision. Would you feel guilty about giving people advice on how to get the best deals on ice cream? Would you feel like that was a good use of your time? 

 

[Girzo]

I can't lockdown a girl, so I am pretty sure there's plenty of girls that just sleep around. 

[mandyjw]

The problem with being an attractive woman is that being attractive is completely subjective and totally imaginary. Just like Brad Pitt is supposedly attractive and I personally find his appearance somewhat disgusting, every single attractive woman has at some point encountered a man who was completely uninterested in her look or vibe. When society and other men value you based on your looks, and looks are so subjective anyway, you can never ever be sure if you're really attractive or not. I mean society has made huge efforts to try to standardize attractiveness in women, but they can't quite succeed because beauty is the the eye of the beholder. 

What if you gain 5 pounds over the holidays? Don't put on makeup? Still hot? The best ego boost a woman who bases her worth on her looks can get is to sleep with new men all the time. Is she actually interested in the sex, or is she interested in having that interaction to ensure that she is beautiful and can continue to value herself based on her looks and desirability to men? Who created that need? Did she create that need, or did man create that need in his requirement for women to be beautiful in order to be worth his attention? Or maybe society created that need by setting a beauty standard and deciding what makeup she should wear and what cup size she should have and conveniently providing her options to buy/pay to fix and standardize all of those things? 

After all, reality is imaginary. 

Isn't it time to imagine a better one? 

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

A big issue, at least on my side is that in order for the sex to be good I need to be able to be vulnerable, intimate and feel like the dude is worth the investment. Building that level of trust takes time and it is very hard to find.

You'd be surprised at the number of hot women who chose to have the same sex life as an incel rather than to risk some bad lay. 

What's sad is that women are taught that that vulnerability is a personal failing they should get over, instead of a greater depth of experience kind of thing. They often get used in the beginning and then learn to "man up" and use men before they can get used. In a man's world, the only way a woman can win is by thinking like a man and playing the man's game. Or by opting out of the game. 

Incels are feeling the pain of the effects of a man's world, survival of the fittest/hottest, stage orange society and women who disregarded their femininity, intuition and bought into it. It's played out, it doesn't work. Time for stage green please. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by mandyjw

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, mandyjw said:

People love to do a lot of things. People like to compulsively eat ice cream but that doesn't make it a wise decision. Would you feel guilty about giving people advice on how to get the best deals on ice cream? Would you feel like that was a good use of your time?

There's a bit of a hypocrisy about sex in the woman's mind. She likes it. She will often have it frequently will random dudes. But then she will deny having done so because she doesn't want to appear easy or slutty.

From the guy's perspective it's frustrating because the more a guy tries to be a nice guy, the less his chances of sleeping with the girl. She often sleeps with the fun asshole instead because he makes her feel spontaneous. Girls rarely reward nice guys. So we are incentivized to be jerks.

The more a guy cares about a girl, the less likely she is to sleep with him. If a guy is totally detached about a girl, the higher his odds of sleeping with her. That's the paradox of attraction.

From the guy's POV, total detachment until sex is necessary for success. You cannot invest in her at all until sex. And the guys who are best at that are total asshole players. So they get laid the most. It requires an almost sociopathic level of detachment. So ironically, the hottest girls reward sociopaths the most. And of course that makes perfect sense from the POV of survival. The more selfish the better, until it comes back to bite you in the ass. The problem with dating a sociopath is that he also doesn't give a damn about you.

[Annoynymous]

@Leo Gura so how to strike a balance between getting laid vs becoming sociopath.

Or in another way, being 'nice guy' vs being the sociopath in order to get sex?

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Annoynymous said:

@Leo Gura so how to strike a balance between getting laid vs becoming sociopath.

Or in another way, being 'nice guy' vs being the sociopath in order to get sex?

Watch my video about The Role Of Balance In Personal Development.

Balance is a tricky business. You cannot ever formalize it because it is dynamic.

You might as well ask me, "So how do I balance myself on a unicycle?"

By doing it. No one can tell you in words how to do it.

You should expect to fall over many, many times before you master it.

There is a very fine line between getting laid and being a sociopath

[mandyjw]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There's a bit of a hypocrisy about sex in the woman's mind. She likes it. She will often have it frequently will random dudes. But then she will deny having done so because she doesn't want to appear easy or slutty.

From the guy's perspective it's frustrating because the more a guy tries to be a nice guy, the less his chances of sleeping with the girl. She often sleeps with the fun asshole instead because he makes her feel spontaneous. Girls rarely reward nice guys. So we are incentivized to be jerks.

The more a guy cares about a girl, the less likely she is to sleep with him. If a guy is totally detached about a girl, the higher his odds of sleeping with her. That's the paradox of attraction.

From the guy's POV, total detachment until sex is necessary for success. You cannot invest in her at all until sex. And the guys who are best at that are total asshole players. So they get laid the most. It requires an almost sociopathic level of detachment. So ironically, the hottest girls reward sociopaths the most. And of course that makes perfect sense from the POV of survival. The more selfish the better, until it comes back to bite you in the ass. The problem with dating a sociopath is that he also doesn't give a damn about you.

This entire game and the rules are made up by you. I'm not saying you are wrong about it within certain pockets of society or that you made the game up without the help of others, but you are perpetuating it and teaching it to others. You are making generalizations about women based on your experiences and expectations, sharing them as facts and rules and not considering the effects of perpetuating them because to you every male on this forum is a copy of Leo before he learned how to pick up women and they have to do the same thing you did. That's not the case. 

You aren't deeply considering the why behind your observations, why don't women like nice guys? BECAUSE NICE GUYS ARE FAKE and assholes underneath it all with an extra layer of deception which is unattractive, so it's better to be with an asshole who is at least honest about it. Just teach men to be honest and genuinely trustworthy and they will do fine. People are as different and unique as can be, and what attracts them to one another is beyond them. Only the male mind would try to come up with a set of rules in order to try to control and understand a spiritual and emotional attraction as fundamental and powerful as the creation of the universe. Only the mind would try to pervert something so beautiful and impossible to understand.