How my birth is imaginary?

[allislove]

@Nahm Yes. "My birth is imaginary" is really a thought?

[Nahm]

@dimitri Nice kite. And what is a thought, really ?

[Forestluv]

I'm feeling "the hand" exercise here. . . 

[allislove]

47 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@dimitri Nice kite. And what is a thought, really ?

Thought is thought, it's just IS, part of God kinda.  
 

36 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I'm feeling "the hand" exercise here. . . 

Yeah, Nahm's riddles are cracking my mind, better watch through the hand.  

EDIT: I'm probably better to contemplate every word from Nahm mouth, but I'm just answering the fist thing which comes to my mind.

Edited October 15, 2019 by dimitri

[Nahm]

@dimitri What was that thought, the one which was outside of you - separate of you - clearly, not you ? The one which was - a ‘part’?

[allislove]

@Nahm separate... the thoughts which didn't actualized. Basically, any fear related thoughts. Part... thoughts which didn't put any agenda on Now, any Love related thoughts. ❤️

Edited October 16, 2019 by dimitri

[Nahm]

@dimitri That sounds very in tune man. You’ve obviously contemplated the nature of thoughts & creation. Something to question, along the lines of the thread...what differences can you see, between the experience of your birth, and of seeing / experiencing other people being born? 

[allislove]

@Nahm thank you.

So, "how my birth is imaginary" is separate thought since it's coming from the place of rational mind (or fear).

About differences between the experience of my birth and seeing other people being born, could you provide more pointers to contemplate?
Obviously, I am not aware of the experience of my birth, it's just a thought (story), but I was seeing in 1 meter distance how my daughter were born.
I experienced only Love related thoughts in that moment. I basically can't compare these two things since I don't remember the direct experience of my birth. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by dimitri

[Nahm]

@dimitri I have a daughter too. I’ll pray for you.

I’d say you’re right on, in that there is no memory, no direct experience, of one’s own birth. Remembering & forgetting are funny, and insightful. 

Not sure how old yours is... but do you see how there are some ‘facets’, some personality traits if you will, which we / she seems to have ‘come here’ with...and then there is a sort of intrinsic automatic acquisition, a ‘learning who I am’ relative to environment and experience, taking place - essentially, based on, or, “filling the hole of” - that forgetting? 

[allislove]

50 minutes ago, Nahm said:

Not sure how old yours is... but do you see how there are some ‘facets’, some personality traits if you will, which we / she seems to have ‘come here’ with...and then there is a sort of intrinsic automatic acquisition, a ‘learning who I am’ relative to environment and experience, taking place - essentially, based on, or, “filling the hole of” - that forgetting? 

Every message from @Nahm's mouth sounds like koan to me. 

She is only around 2. Yeah, I also was pondering does we teach her or she us (or probably it is just all happening). Do you mean that we have already everything within us, but sometimes thoughts of fear (fear conditioned by culture environment for example) may impose us to forget who we truly are? 

Edited October 16, 2019 by dimitri

[Leo Gura]

It's very simple: is your birth happening right now? No? Then you are imagining it.

If you object, "Yeah, but at one time it really was happening", just notice that you are imagining that too.

You cannot ever escape imagination. If a thing is not being imagined right now, it doesn't exist.

It's very simple. You just don't want to accept it because you want things to be "real".

[allislove]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's very simple: is your birth happening right now? No? Then you are imagining it.
No. Right, I am imagining it.

If you object, "Yeah, but at one time it really was happening", just notice that you are imagining that too.
No objections here.

You cannot ever escape imagination. If a thing is not being imagined right now, it doesn't exist.
I understand how it applies to my birth thought. I imagine it right now − it exist. I don't imagine it right now − it doesn't exist.
Out of curiosity, does the reversed logic hold too (It exists − I imagine it. It doesn't exist − I don't imagine it) ?  
If yes, it means if I look into my hand right now − it exists. So, I just imagined it. This would be hard to contemplate for me without mystical experience. 

It's very simple. You just don't want to accept it because you want things to be "real".
Hm, thanks for the answer.

 

Edited October 16, 2019 by dimitri

[Leo Gura]

@dimitri It's even trickier than you imagine.

Non-existence isn't real, it is imaginary!

There is only existence. Existence is an Absolute and has no opposite.

A non-existent object is actually an existent object in your imagination. But you are misunderstanding that object's true nature. You take it as really non-existent when it is actually existent as a thought. Your mind confuses thoughts and objects. For example, you confuse thoughts of your mother for your mother.

The kicker is, if you didn't create this confusion you couldn't have a mother. Since a mother is a thought, not an object.

So how are you gonna escape this confusion? Escaping it would mean the collapse of your entire reality. Can you stomach that?

[allislove]

@Leo Gura It's a mindfuck! I am giving up to understand it conceptually. 

Quote

The kicker is, if you didn't create this confusion you couldn't have a mother. Since a mother is a thought, not an object.

But what is object in this context? Body of my mother is object? But it's not what I call my mother? That what you mean? I am a bit lost.

[cetus]

@dimitri It's not that your lost it's just that words/mind will only get you so far. A direct realization is what's needed from here.

[joeyi99]

@Leo Gura How is a mother a thought?

[Inliytened1]

@joeyi99 there is only what is held within consciousness.   You believe there is this physical being behind the scenes that is your mother but realize that you just had to think that into existence right now.  Even non-existence is but an idea held within consciousness.

 

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Inliytened1

[allislove]

@Inliytened1 so, my mother is object when she is physically near to me and she is a thought when she is not in my direct experience? But what this difference brings to us? How it's helpful for realizing my true nature? 

[Inliytened1]

5 hours ago, dimitri said:

@Inliytened1 so, my mother is object when she is physically near to me and she is a thought when she is not in my direct experience? But what this difference brings to us? How it's helpful for realizing my true nature? 

Mom is held within your consciousness regardless...even when she is right in front of you - you are imagining her...everything is consciousness including you

And as to how it is helpful..well, I think if it clicks that everything is mind stuff - including YOU ...its like you have this oh fuck monent - like:  "well shit - not only is my mom consciousness but so am I!"  and so you realize that you are made of consciousness - its like - oh....oh fuck!  I'm not real - or rather there is no contrast between real and imaginary because there is only imaginary!  And since consciousness is a totally empty, formless substance - you realize "I'm..I'm..made of nothing holy fuck!" .when that hits home it really hits home!

Then it hits you that not only are you made of consciousness..what you really are IS consciousness!  The you as the ego is something You dreamed up

 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Inliytened1

[allislove]

@Inliytened1

I can grasp conceptually that my mother is imaginary when she is not in my direct experience, but to really get the idea that everything is imaginary.. I need some mystical experience.

 

Anyway, thank you man and everyone involved in this thread, my question answered. ❤️