Red Pill, Blue Pill, What's the deal?

[Finland3286]

Hey everybody, I have come across some people talking about the Red Pill and Blue Pill ideologies. In their eyes I would be labeled as a blue pill popper . The way I approach relationships is something that would be a long term thing where we can build each other up and live, love, and laugh. But these people that subscribe to red pill that I've seen are generally labeling women as "gold diggers" in a way. Don't get me wrong I think gold diggers are definitely out there and the whole idea of a "gold digger" really gets under my skin but I think there are really "good" women out there who really care about other people through the bad times and the good times and aren't just opportunistic when it comes to relationships where they would just date a guy because he had millions of dollars. If I was to imagine a scenario where a guy asks a woman out and gets rejected but then wins the Powerball for $500 million, what percentage of women would try to get with the guy after rejecting him? That question scares me in a way because I don't want to think that many women would but I really don't know. The way I see it is that you are first attracted to a woman by looks, which is shallow in nature but then you get to know the woman from there to see if things could/do work out. The thing is though that when these red pill people describe the blue pill perspective I think they are describing my relationship thoughts pretty well. I think that the red pill philosophy can describe some women but not all women, I like to think that my thoughts about relationships aren't wrong and there really are "good" women out there who wouldn't just leave you because of something horrible happening to you that you had no control over. I'm not talking about the guy that loses his job and sits around all day and gives up on life, i'm talking about the guy that gets hits by a semi and is in a wheelchair for the rest of his life. I feel like if these red pill folks are right then I don't even care about relationships at all but i'm going to go find out for myself I suppose. If these red pill people are right I feel deeply troubled. What are your thoughts about these perspectives on relationships?

[tenta]

Women are not attracted to money, do women want money? Yes, but putting money as what attracts women isn't true, for example social status is more inherent to you while money isn't, so social status is more attractive, women don't just want money - they could, if they are using the guy for money because they aren't after him inherently

If you become disabled in some way, or lose social status, or can't get it up anymore - why would she stick with you instead of finding another guy when the attraction was based on those things in the first place?

[Knock]

Don't waste your time engaging in any of these stupid games. It is toxic and low conscious material that will create all sorts of distorted beliefs about life and women. 

The reason 'Red pill philosophy' is trash is because it is that it is fundamentally based on fear and unworthiness. They are all about disowning the feminine and overstating the masculine. Anyone that knows anything about personal development knows this is a terrible strategy.  

I have never met someone of high self-consciousness that takes this stuff seriously...

[Gili Trawangan]

28 minutes ago, Knock said:

Don't waste your time engaging in any of these stupid games. It is toxic and low conscious material that will create all sorts of distorted beliefs about life and women. 

The reason 'Red pill philosophy' is trash is because it is that it is fundamentally based on fear and unworthiness. They are all about disowning the feminine and overstating the masculine. Anyone that knows anything about personal development knows this is a terrible strategy.  

I have never met someone of high self-consciousness that takes this stuff seriously...

@Knock Although I agree that it is toxic and low-consciousness, there is something about the red pill claims that still gives me pause.. 

I'll leave you the following data and honestly ask for your thoughts on the reasons for it: 70% of divorces are initiated by women. It's not possible for this to be a coincidence, with large enough numbers the percentage should be closer to 50%.

I ask in good faith: why?

[28 cm unbuffed]

@Gili Trawangan

because men are getting too comfortable with a women and after getting "da pussy" and stable job, they are starting to think that their life is done and they can stabilize and don't do shit and they can just go to work, chill and fuck after

don't get me wrong, there are women that are like that too, but one of the biggest motivation for men is to attract hot women and that's also the main reason, why most men get in the self-development in the first place - to get the pussy

@Finland3286

yeah dude, there are "normal" women out there, that don't need to fuck with a bunch of dudes or find some wealthy guy to get her fulfilled

there are women out there, that are just good people, just like you are good guy (i do not mean "nice/beta guy", don't confuse these two)

rule of thumb - never, ever prioritize woman, and eventually women will come into your life

and when they come - don't get into a trap of prioritizing them - do your own shit and let a women be a "nice addition" to your life, while treating her the best you can, loving her and just function as a team, two people, that complement each other

about red pill - there is a lot of good stuff in it, but it's all based on primal needs and our animalistic nature, you can learn from that and use it, but never make it your main agenda, or you will get stuck with low, primitive consciousness state women that just need to fullfill their primal needs to be happy and they are pretty much done 

Edited October 15, 2019 by 28 cm unbuffed

[Gili Trawangan]

11 minutes ago, 28 cm unbuffed said:

because men are getting too comfortable with a women and after getting "da pussy" and stable job, they are starting to think that their life is done and they can stabilize and don't do shit and they can just go to work, chill and fuck after

don't get me wrong, there are women that are like that too, but one of the biggest motivation for men is to attract hot women and that's also the main reason, why most men get in the self-development in the first place - to get the pussy

You are basically agreeing with red pill then, that's exactly what they say. That a man can never "put his sword down" and expect his loved one to be loyal to him, he will always have the burden of performance. If he does not perform up to standard, he will be abandoned and left for another man who will. That's red pill in a nutshell.

I will wait for a woman's perspective on this, hoping it'll be different...

[28 cm unbuffed]

@Gili Trawangan

it's not about redpill perspective, it's about general perspective towards life 

you can never stop working on yourself, self-development is a life-long journey

the moment you stop evolving, you start to go backwards, that's how life works, either you accept it or not

Edited October 15, 2019 by 28 cm unbuffed

[Finland3286]

8 hours ago, tenta said:

Women are not attracted to money, do women want money? Yes, but putting money as what attracts women isn't true, for example social status is more inherent to you while money isn't, so social status is more attractive, women don't just want money - they could, if they are using the guy for money because they aren't after him inherently

If you become disabled in some way, or lose social status, or can't get it up anymore - why would she stick with you instead of finding another guy when the attraction was based on those things in the first place?

I would like to think that she would stick with you because she loves you. Sure you can initially be attracted to a mans social status like a man can be attracted to a woman's beauty. But I think it goes deeper than that, you get to know one another and have a great time and live, love, and laugh. If you lost your social status or were in a wheel chair because of some tragedy she has gotten to know you and stuck around for you. There are other men with social status, why did she choose you? What was the determining factor? Maybe she is solely attracted to social status but I think if that's the case then it wasn't real in the first place. I like to think that if it was real she would stay with you because you are more than just a man with high social status when you have a real connection. 

[flume]

Maybe look at that issue from a bit of a different perspective:
How would your view change if you understood this about woman? Listen closely.

It’s really more sad than it is ‘mean’ when woman go after men with money. They’re fearing for their lives.

It doesn’t really matter if there’s woman out there who would choose a guy just for his money. It won’t be you because these woman won’t trap you if you develop yourself enough. Often these kinds of ‘relationships’ are an unspoken agreement of trading sex and looks (coming from woman) for money (coming from men).  Because there are just as many men out there who want a young, pretty doll to show off as there are woman digging gold. It’s just low consciousness stuff.

If woman are that way, let them. Don’t think they ‘win’ by doing that. They still think money makes them happy, so they’re stuck in unhappiness forever. So woman in those scenarios are actually suffering as much as men.

 

It makes me a bit sick how ‘all woman’ are portrayed like that sometimes. It’s such a gross generalisation. The internet can really screw up your view on the opposite sex a lot. Be careful with that. Go by your experience. Look around you. It’s probably less common than they make you believe.

You can paint the feminine negative just as much as you can the masculine. But there’s healthy sides to both dynamics too. 

 

Also, I think woman are looking for men that are slightly more confident than they are. And usually, if you’re confident, there shouldn’t be a huge problem making enough money to provide for your living situation. Having no direction in life (like watching TV all day or smith) is really a turn off. Woman want to feel that you have a sense of purpose in your life.

And maybe having a lot of money is signalling to woman that, at least superficially, they’re not losers. They ‘accomplished’ something. 

The only way they can be there for her is through money or physical safety. Which isn’t all there is but if you look at most men out there, they don’t know how to make a woman feel safe in any way. So it’s better than nothing. Honestly, there’s just not a lot of great men out there. So why not settle for someone that at least has some money?

I was in a situation once where I could have easily exploited a pretty rich guy. But if you have any level of self awareness you immediately notice how icky it feels, how it’s just not the right thing to do and how it’s gonna make everyone unhappy. Consciousness prevents you to build up a future on a lie like that. You could never justify it.

 

Raise your consciousness. Nothing else to do.

 

To wok around this constant fear requires a lot from woman. That doesn’t mean that you have to be completely able to provide everything yourself, but enough to not come from a place of fear because you think you won’t make it. The key (for men and woman) is to be content on your own, so you only have love to give when you interact with others, not needs to be fulfilled. And you can act out of love and playfulness, not scarcity, discovering more of yourself by being with someone else, playing that game of masculine and feminine. 

As a rule of thumb: You’ll attract woman on roughly the same level of awareness that you have. Don’t focus on woman too much. Focus on your purpose. It will all happen organically the moment you let go.

[universe]

There are rich people out there who get no woman. On the other hand there are jobless guys who swim in girls. Its a factor but its not essential. The essential factor is confidence.

Redpill bluepill is limiting your beliefs. The way you think about people has a huge influence on how your relationship goes with them. So think twice if you want to adopt those kind of beliefs and what that will do to your relationships.

[Gili Trawangan]

@flume That was a very interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

[ajasatya]

23 hours ago, Finland3286 said:

Red Pill, Blue Pill, What's the deal?

Simply put, completely useless ideas.

Don't populate your mental space with those. Think about your life purpose instead. How do you want to serve the world? How can you impact the life of billions in a positive way?

[Leo Gura]

On 10/15/2019 at 0:52 AM, Gili Trawangan said:

70% of divorces are initiated by women.

Maybe it's cause men are behaving like juvenile Red Pill assholes?

[Gili Trawangan]

13 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Maybe it's cause men are behaving like juvenile Red Pill assholes?

@Leo Gura That would probably help 

But the red pill is very much a fringe movement (plus they are against marriage), so my question stands, and I'm genuinely curious about the reasons. Why do women initiate most divorces? I thought some female users would take up the opportunity to set things straight, but only @flume came up with another perspective, a very interesting one which nevertheless doesn't answer the question.

The red pill attempts to answer my question, and explains it through evolutionary psychology. I wish I could say that they don't have a point, but what's the alternative?

There is one, which is to stop trying to generalize and understand that there are all kinds of people and exceptions to every rule. This is my current perspective.. but I know that it's a limited one, so it's something that I haven't figured out.

In the meantime, no marriage for me 

[Knock]

@Gili Trawangan I have a theory, by no means researched, why women are often the ones to 'pull the plug' in relationships.

Women and men seek different needs in the relationship. I am going to break it down quite superficially and heavily generalising, but this gist is this.
For most men, this involves:

• Women that are attractive and can turn them on
• Women that can can give birth to children so that the man can pass on his legacy
• Women that can lend an ear to hear whats on their mind or let off some steam.

Notice how the bar for these things are relatively low. Ones you got the train on the tracks, the rest is laid back and easy. 

Women on the other hand seek:

• A man that is confident and has a purpose
• A man that will be a provider for her children
• A man that will deeply connect with her and flow with her emotions.

Notice how these traits are ongoing, rather than 'set-and-forget'. 

A womens needs in a relationship will be the first to be threatened, as they are predominately based on ongoing actions and effort by the man. The man, although having this need too, has this to a lessor degree. Hence, when a relationship turns stale, the women is typically the first to notice, and feels the effects the most. Therefore, after a period of time when the pain becomes too great, they will be compelled to take action and divorce the relationship. Essentially, men are more comfortable in a love-less marriage than women are. 

The counter to this (as a man) is to obviously live a life of purpose and intention. Not only will that benefit you personally as a man, but will make you more attractive and have deeper connection with your wife. Remember, the good life is a life of constant effort. Once you stop pedalling, you will inevitably fall over. So don't worry about the statistics, just do you the best you can. 

It doesn't matter if its true or not, it only matters if its beneficial. 

Avoiding marriage out of the fear that they will leave you is obviously not beneficial.

[Leo Gura]

I was joking.

[Gili Trawangan]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I was joking.

@Leo Gura I got it

But because I'm still curious I took the opportunity to ask for more serious answers. And I got one from @Knock , which I will respond to next.

[Gili Trawangan]

44 minutes ago, Knock said:

@Gili Trawangan I have a theory, by no means researched, why women are often the ones to 'pull the plug' in relationships.

Women and men seek different needs in the relationship. I am going to break it down quite superficially and heavily generalising, but this gist is this.
For most men, this involves:

• Women that are attractive and can turn them on
• Women that can can give birth to children so that the man can pass on his legacy
• Women that can lend an ear to hear whats on their mind or let off some steam.

Notice how the bar for these things are relatively low. Ones you got the train on the tracks, the rest is laid back and easy. 

Women on the other hand seek:

• A man that is confident and has a purpose
• A man that will be a provider for her children
• A man that will deeply connect with her and flow with her emotions.

Notice how these traits are ongoing, rather than 'set-and-forget'. 

A womens needs in a relationship will be the first to be threatened, as they are predominately based on ongoing actions and effort by the man. The man, although having this need too, has this to a lessor degree. Hence, when a relationship turns stale, the women is typically the first to notice, and feels the effects the most. Therefore, after a period of time when the pain becomes too great, they will be compelled to take action and divorce the relationship. Essentially, men are more comfortable in a love-less marriage than women are. 

The counter to this (as a man) is to obviously live a life of purpose and intention. Not only will that benefit you personally as a man, but will make you more attractive and have deeper connection with your wife. Remember, the good life is a life of constant effort. Once you stop pedalling, you will inevitably fall over. So don't worry about the statistics, just do you the best you can. 

It doesn't matter if its true or not, it only matters if its beneficial. 

Avoiding marriage out of the fear that they will leave you is obviously not beneficial.

 

51 minutes ago, Knock said:

 

@Knock I agree with most of what you say, but notice how that is entirely in alignment with what the red pill preaches.

They say to men: continuously self-improve, know that you will always have the burden of performance and under no circumstances expect unconditional love from your wife because you will never get it. You have to be on top of your game most of the time (there is a bit of leeway, it's not that you are immediately discarded).

52 minutes ago, Knock said:

Essentially, men are more comfortable in a love-less marriage than women are.

Completely disagree with this. Maybe by that point it's loveless from the woman's point of view, but when that divorce comes men are usually dumbfounded that the woman they chose to have a life with has 'suddenly' (for them) decided to leave.

56 minutes ago, Knock said:

doesn't matter if its true or not, it only matters if its beneficial

Also, completely disagree with this

58 minutes ago, Knock said:

The counter to this (as a man) is to obviously live a life of purpose and intention. Not only will that benefit you personally as a man, but will make you more attractive and have deeper connection with your wife. Remember, the good life is a life of constant effort. Once you stop pedalling, you will inevitably fall over. So don't worry about the statistics, just do you the best you can. 

But I do agree with this and I think it's good advice.

The way, as I see it, is finding happiness within, connection to Reality and the universe. And expecting nothing from others, while at the same time being able to give love and finding connection. No relationship is ever secure, in fact nothing is ever secure, so...

[remember]

AND THEY LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER. looking at that number, and suspecting that all divorces are counted in, i would ask myself how many of these 70% are because of domestic violence. it`s not that i would say men in general are violent but i would say in a lot of these cases it has to do with some major and minor violence be it physical or mental, towards the woman herself or to their children. some more aspects are alcohol abuse and gambling (even if it`s gambling with life visions) i also suspect that you can find domestic violence from women but it might be a little bit less than on the other side. so if you would filter out all divorces because of domestic violence, i suppose the difference would be much less. then another aspect would probably be roll modelling, women often times have to take on the more house caring part and oftentimes do that also because they like that in the beginning but then feel left alone after a while, classic trap - it`s not even anyones particular fault but can come along because of income gaps. in that sense a big part has to do with disinterest in "women problems" including child pedagogic issues. whatever men don`t understand about all of that makes the 70%.

Edited October 17, 2019 by remember

[Finland3286]

My favorite part of this forum is that Leo is lurking around all enlightened trolling us.