conclusion from Facets Of Awakening (vegans come here)

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Scholar What do you think about perception = sentience? In the sense, the delusion is required, thus making the intelligence of a plant, incomprehensible, based on the illusion one is comprehending (a delusion which the plant is not under)

I am not quite sure what you mean.

Perception to me is Being, I would say all Sentience is Being, but not all Being is Sentience.

[Nahm]

@Scholar So being = delusional? 

Edit: oop, never mind. I get ya now. ??

[zeroISinfinity]

All Being is sentience. ❤️

No wonder It's on my tail hehe. Turn TV on Alice in wonderland choping Dragon's head off lol. It is Just insane. It is Just pure awe. Ok I beleive I figure out rejoyce it is not so about Me how much it is for Reality. That's Why Humanity and Why I appear to be human. I improve All improves.I really hope so. Have faith in good. 

 

[OmniYoga]

On 19.10.2019 at 11:43 AM, Barna said:

I think you're oversimplifying and denying your own emotional intelligence. Whenever you're feeling something, the reason behind a feeling is never a "just". Feelings are infinetely complex and intelligent. Spend some time with them, get familiar with them. 

 

I suggested a false equivalence between humans and animals, sorry about that. Humans and animals are not equal because of their difference in the depth of their consciousness. Humans have a deeper, more sophisticated consciousness. The same way, animals and plants are not equal because animals have a more sophisticated consciousness. 

You're right, objectively speaking there's nothing wrong with eating meat. There's nothing wrong with anything, good and bad are imaginary distinctions. 

But subjectively now, whenever you're sitting down to have a meal, you have a choice. Whether you're eating meat or plants, you're contributing to killing them. But you can choose which depth of consciousness you support killing. So, when you have this choice, what are your reasons for choosing to kill such a sophisticated creature as an animal? Don't generalize it, I'm interested in your own subjective reasons for choosing to eat meat. 

@Barna from my understand it worst than "just" - it's an reaction from the past that have been stored in your less evloution advanced part of the brain, it keeps you stuck in the past - and not allowing expierence what is now, but reinforcing your perception of reality from the past  (react to the world from past - instead of response from presence)
i am not sure if all, but I'm pretty sure most of emtional patterns is formed during your childhoood, when you knew nothing and made assumpotions out of nowhere, so the events around you could have any sense,
and basiclly rest of the life is reninforcing that assumptions, unless you conciouslly challange them and work througth them (which you will resist to do, becasue it mess up with your map that you've created - and the last thing your mind wants is going through life without the map or admit it's wrong)

"Humans and animals are not equal because of their difference in the depth of their consciousness. Humans have a deeper, more sophisticated consciousness. The same way, animals and plants are not equal because animals have a more sophisticated consciousness. ", it just an assumption of your mind and personal opinion (for me plants are more sophisticated than humans )

how did you measure it ?
how do you know how conscious is the plant or self-aware ? you have no idea
what if the plants are more connected to the being than humans?

we might even not have tools or language to discribed it,  yet here you make some hirarchy - based on what ?
I think you mistaken evolution food chain with consciousness
we eat them - they don't eat us = thefefore we are > better than them
that's just self-centered insanity

there is no such a distinction in reality
it's totally fabric of your mind 
how can you not see it?

 

there is one simple reason to eat meat - "Meats are complete proteins, but many plant-based proteins aren’t"

Edited October 20, 2019 by OmniYoga

[VeganAwake]

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-protein-combining-myth/

The Protein-Combining Myth

Michael Greger M.D. FACLM  April 25th, 2016  Volume 30

The myth that plant proteins are incomplete, necessitating protein combining, was debunked by the scientific nutrition community decades ago.

All nutrients come from the sun or the soil. Vitamin D, the “sunshine vitamin,” is created when skin is exposed to sunlight. Everything else comes from the ground. Minerals originate from the earth, and vitamins from the plants and micro-organisms that grow from it.

The calcium in a cow’s milk (and her 200-pound skeleton) came from all the plants she ate, which drew it up from the soil. We can cut out the middle-moo, though, and get calcium from the plants directly.

Where do you get your protein? Protein contains essential amino acids, meaning our bodies can’t make them; and so, they are essential to get from our diet. But other animals don’t make them either. All essential amino acids originate from plants (and microbes), and all plant proteins have all essential amino acids. The only truly “incomplete” protein in the food supply is gelatin, which is missing the amino acid tryptophan. So, the only protein source that you couldn’t live on is Jell-O.

As I covered previously, those eating plant-based diets average about twice the estimated average daily protein requirement. Those who don’t know where to get protein on a plant-based diet don’t know beans! Get it? That’s protein quantity, though, but what about protein quality?

The concept that plant protein was inferior to animal protein arose from studies performed on rodents more than a century ago. Scientists found that infant rats don’t grow as well on plants. But infant rats don’t grow as well on human breast milk either; so, does that mean we shouldn’t breastfeed our babies? Ridiculous! They’re rats. Rat milk has ten times more protein than human milk, because rats grow about ten times faster than human infants.

It is true that some plant proteins are relatively low in certain essential amino acids. So, about 40 years ago, the myth of “protein combining” came into vogue—literally, the February ‘75 issue of Vogue magazine. The concept was that we needed to eat “complementary proteins” together, for example, rice and beans, to make up for their relative shortfalls. This fallacy was refuted decades ago. The myth that plant proteins are incomplete, that plant proteins aren’t as good, that one has to combine proteins at meals—these have all been dismissed by the nutrition community as myths decades ago, but many in medicine evidently didn’t get the memo. Dr. John McDougall called out the American Heart Association for a 2001 publication that questioned the completeness of plant proteins. Thankfully though, they’ve changed and acknowledged that, “Plant proteins can provide all the essential amino acids, no need to combine complementary proteins.”

It turns out our body maintains pools of free amino acids that it can use to do all the complementing for us, not to mention the massive protein recycling program our body has. Some 90 grams of protein are dumped into the digestive tract every day from our own body to get broken back down and reassembled, and so our body can mix and match amino acids to whatever proportions we need, whatever we eat, making it practically impossible to even design a diet of whole plant foods that’s sufficient in calories, but deficient in protein. Thus, plant-based consumers do not need to be at all concerned about amino acid imbalances from the plant proteins that make up our usual diets.

[Arcangelo]

[Barna]

 

4 hours ago, OmniYoga said:

for me plants are more sophisticated than humans

Get a knife, go to your window and kill your flower with it. Then invite over one of your friends and cut her throat. 

Tell me if you felt a difference. 

[Barna]

17 minutes ago, Arcangelo said:

You should compare humans to a carnivorous and a herbivorous primate. Oh wait... there aren't any carnivorous primates, only one insectivorous...

Eating meat was a survival strategy for humans in the ice ages. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're not in the ice ages anymore...

[OmniYoga]

@VeganAwake @VeganAwake your reasoning failed at one point

just becasue there is some nutritons in some potential food - DOES NOT ABSOLUTLY MEAN THAT YOUR BODY IS ABLE TO DIGEST IT

which is what Arcangelo present basically in that table picture

 

@Barna no point of further conversation, you're stuck in your dogma

[Aeris]

On 14/10/2019 at 5:51 PM, Dizzy said:

You are  FREE to eat and do whatever you want. If you believe eating MEAT is bad, then dont eat. If you believe eating meat is good, then eat. 

CAREFUL = On a serious path of self-actualization BELIEVING anything is not the way to go. Eat meat for like 2 weeks and contemplate how your body feels, how is your meditation, how is your awareness. Then do another experiment without meat (go vegan) and again, contemplate it ALL. How is your diet affecting/ impacting your practices, your life, your mind, your level of awareness ?  If you don't know, then contemplate is a great tool.   

 

 

My personal embodiment of a holistic living implied in conscious eating. What I eat become an organic part of me, of my life, of the energy of my body and impacted deep my meditation practice. I didnt cut out meat for a label or to purify myself.  I simply realized meat and vegetarianism no longer 'agreed' with body and with my own values. I think one important question you can ask yourself in order to eat or dont eat meat is ' does it agree with my own values ? ' Analyze deeply all the implications each of your own values has. 

 

What does it mean to eat consciously for you ? You can become conscious of any plant being as much alive as the cow or you are. 

 

 

there is period in life, some month are better for me.

there is too many variables to study anything, and there is aswell what I call the "placebo physical expectation".

it means that whatever you expect from something, your behavior/mood will change according to the faith you put in this thing in the first place.

like unconsciously if you believe meat will be lower than veggies, the chances that you experience a better week on veggies could be placebo.

there is no fucking way to know what's good is the ultimate knowing of this work. 

after yellow and trying to study 200 study in cross ways, you understand, there is no fucking way to understand anything really, only the instinct gathered from experience data ( cross data with imaginary myth about how is reality / fake data )

 

you could live well and better while eating meat from a billion of reasons, and die from a vegan/fruit diet in 1 month.

there is an infinity of variable. The only way, is not a month on meat or vegs.

it would cost a lifetime of trial & error, and your food always change, your way of consumming it, the others lifestyle you got with it.

 

for me I stopped worrying about anything, I just avoid what my belly tell me not to do, I m even sure that with the bunch of variable that exist you could eat junk food all your life and avoid a cancer from doing it, there could be a case of one in 1000 people, but maybe you'll be the guy who die from a veg diet and would be healthy from mcdonald.

for me there is no way to reach the ultimate truth, and even when you got the best diet, what if your super apples start to become toxic from a random toxic rain in the country where you harvest them.

 

the number of variable is such that you don't need to bother, but my guess is just, avoid junk food, only because the source is trash without a study.

BUT even what we call junk food in France is not equal to junk food in USA, for instance our meat respect way more labels and quality, even for junk.

ogm wheat isn't legal.. etc.. so all our basic products are differents.

eating a mcdonald in France is healthier than in USA, but it doesn't mean it's good.

 

this is a truth that makes me vomit on myself, you can't fucking know a thing for sure about reality, we create theoric model, only for expectation, not for prevision, there is no way to know how reality perfectly works, even when we will get an AI working quanticly 10 000 times better than our current computer, cause there will still be, missing data, cause we cannot reach an infinite number of crossed simulated experience.

even if a theoric model work for 10 years, doesn't mean that we got to the essence of why it is working, could be working because of data we are not aware of but that still hold in the "real" side of things ( not at the perception of human level ), even if we hold a map in hands that seams to generate a predictible reality, that still will be filtered through the thing that isn't a machine, the human perception basic (bias)

a reproductible experience in perception doesn't mean it is an absolute truth. Mean it's a "relative effective truth" that seams to work so far ;that is a better way to talk about science experience.

 

[Barna]

8 hours ago, OmniYoga said:

@Barna no point of further conversation, you're stuck in your dogma

What are you talking about? I was offering you an experiment to test your point of view. You don't even have to break the law, you can try the same thing with your flower and with your dog.  If you don't want to do an experiment to test your statements then who's the dogmatic here? 

I grew up in a small town in a poor country, so I've been on many pig slaughters when I was a kid. I've seen the pigs' eyes and heard their sound when the knife opened their neck... What kind of experiences do you have with killing? If you have any experience, do you remember what you've felt? Or did you suppress your feelings? 

[zeroISinfinity]

Am I not spiritual enough if I eat meat? 

Controversy, killed so many animals in life but still was able to awaken. Something to really ponder. 

Well my grandma was old and always needed good hand. Lived on countryside had pigs, chickens, ducks, cows. All eatable. Someone had to do it. ?

Brace yourself kiddo you Will get Stoned now.