Is there any control we have over life?

[Schahin]

I am everything and everywhere. 

Also I rule over everything with absolute intelligence. 

But that is god in me, my higher self which makes reality unfold for me. 

How much decision space do I the human self have, or am I only acting out on his plan entirely and cannot have any control over what happens whatsoever?  

I just need to let go, trust and accept,whatever my true self unfolds for my human life in a mysterious manner or does any bit of decision space remain to me and therefore I take responsibility over that part? 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Schahin

[Beginner Mind]

I think, ultimately, everything that happens is ordained by the Source.  But being told that doesn't help you in any way.  If anything, it may have negative consequences like falling into victimhood. 

Whether we have control over our destinies or not, all one can do is follow his or her natural inclinations.  Just do whatever feels right to you, and don't worry about whether or not you are responsible for the action.

[undeather]

 Act as if, everything else wont take you anywhere. 

Life is mysterious in many ways and nobody knows how it all works behind the scenes. Not even all the enlightened masters. 

[Nahm]

A real sword will not do with a dream lion.

[ajasatya]

2 hours ago, Schahin said:

Is there any control we have over life?

Short answer: yes and no.

[Schahin]

10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

A real sword will not do with a dream lion.

Interesting quote. I cant get the meaning though. 

Explain. 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Schahin

[CreamCat]

31 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

Short answer: yes and no.

Medium answer?

[ajasatya]

3 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Medium answer?

That made me giggle 

It's paradoxical. You can't spot the will of a cell, and yet it is constantly working towards its own preservation and sustainability. The self is an illusion, and yet our lives improve drastically when we embody self-responsibility.

[TheAvatarState]

2 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

The self is an illusion, and yet our lives improve drastically when we embody self-responsibility.

Yes. Taking radical self-responsibility is key.

@CreamCat

You have full control of your life, as a sliver of God's (your) Will, but you're a limited form with an ego. That means previous patterns can still run you unless you do the work to overcome them. But from the moment you take full responsibility, the decision trees of what's possible Branch out so quickly that you can do nearly anything that you want in this lifetime. And whether you choose to piss your life away or become your greatest version, it's all Good. If reality somehow prevented you from being a liar, a cheat, or a scumbag, then that wouldn't be true love. 

[Nahm]

5 hours ago, Schahin said:

I am everything and everywhere. 

Indeed. So you dreamt Schalin; someone, somewhere. 

Also I rule over everything with absolute intelligence. 

There’s no thing separate of infinite intelligence, nothing can not rule ‘over’ nothing; unless nothing dreams it so.  And sew you did. 

But that is god in me, my higher self which makes reality unfold for me. 

The same. The ‘reality unfolding for me’ draws upon that God within, and creation is - everything is! Perfectly designed. Perfect. What brings you to your knees, brings you your wings. Seek out the pain. Dream the impossible. In God truly, all things are possible (and ‘you’ are in God) image...imagination - with that “second” I.  

How much decision space do I the human self have, or am I only acting out on his plan entirely and cannot have any control over what happens whatsoever?  

“His plan” is a thought. If it weren’t, you’d not be questioning control. His love, is not a thought, but mystically, creates thought. A thought can veil you from the love that you are. Sensation is already purifying such thoughts. Just let them go. 

Control is a thought. Dualistic. Do I have control or not? 

Well, what would be the point of control?  To what end?

I have control, but I do not feel great. The control is worthless. It was a fraud. 

I have control, and I feel great; yet the feeling is contingent upon the illusion of control; again, fleeting, and worthless. 

Feeling minus thought (belief in control) = sensation, love...the source of, the electricity of, the creator, creation, creating of - the feeling. 

If you have control - then don’t die, physically speaking. Perpetuate this life forever - with your ‘ life control’. Of course, we can not. 

Why not? Because you’re already immortal, dreaming that you are not. 

What is control, when there is love? 

What needs controlling, in love?  What in love, needs control?

Is love not free of, transcendent of, control?

Is this dream other than love? 

Have you a more divine power to access? 

I for one, do not. 

Dream with it, in it, of it. You wanna bring God to life? See how much you can give away.  Watch what happens. Pure magic. 

I just need to let go, trust and accept,

Trust is a write off, acceptance is a write off. 

Sensation is your core, and all of you, every cell, is a living unending birthing from it into relativity to it. There’s no need to trust the vacuum will clean the floor, when you know you can plug it in. Electrified, it sucks, yes. That is it’s true beauty, that is the perfection of the ‘electricity’, shining through. Rise up in accordance, that is the nature of the juice. Less what-ige, more wattage. Be the juice, or be the sucker. 

whatever my true self unfolds for my human life in a mysterious manner or does any bit of decision space remain to me and therefore I take responsibility over that part? 

Consciousness can not give you more than you can handle, as you are it. You can’t know what’s coming, but you can always get back up - and so what would you ever choose over the not knowing?  Nothing. Which you already are, so you dream. 

You need only enough to understand that a map is not a territory, and to get a dry erase board, and map your territory. 

Why are we going to haunted houses, jumping out of planes, diving the depths of the oceans, breaking land speed records, ....why do we do these things? 

Why make a snow globe, if you’re not gonna shake it up? 

Ha! As I’m writing this, thirty or so geese fly over my head, unusually close...all but one honking, rather profusely, really. As far as I can see, you’re that one in the front, and every one who has ever snow globed, honks for you. Go in love. You couldn’t fly with out gravity. It’s perfect. It fits you perfectly. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Schahin said:

Interesting quote. I cant get the meaning though. 

Explain. 

Living a life will not do in a dream. 

You dream a life...so you can live your life’s dream...follow the breadcrumbs of wanting - out of your head - on to the dream board, and you have manifested, your metadventure has begun. “That”, was all just a back story, a means to this now, of creation, creating. Who knows where it’ll take you. That is the pristine, untouched, mystery and beauty of you. You sneaky pesky dot reeling sob.  

You can fuck up entirely, fail horrifically, and ruin everything - and God does not see it. God never stopped wanting you, never took his eyes off loving you without condition, without condition; even allowing, in selfless freedom,  for you to go alone, if you still want to. 

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, Schahin said:

How much decision space do I the human self have

Identifying as a human self brings limitations. For example, as a human I won’t be flying around chirping like a bird. As a human who has never learned Chinese, I didn’t wake up this morning speaking fluent Chinese. There are limitations as human form, yet our potential is way beyond what we think.

The other half of your question is within a personal dynamic. Who/what is this self? Who what is this “decider”? 

[Beginner Mind]

38 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Who/what is this self? Who what is this “decider”? 

When the Understanding of no-self occurs, are decisions just witnessed?

[Conscious life]

Yes free will exist with determinism. 

Free will definitely exists with determinism, a person who advocates free will doesn't exist is a person who doesn't have true enlightenment. 

Both are polarity of reality, one should not ignore the other. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Beginner Mind said:

When the Understanding of no-self occurs, are decisions just witnessed?

What is a decision? What is the substance of a decision? Isn’t a decision a thought story? 

Imagine removing the thought story. Imagine you are playing soccer and are “in the zone”. No thoughts. You steal the ball. You break away and dribble toward the opponent’s goal. You are one-on-one with the goalie. You pass the ball to your teammate. An opposing player blocks the pass and kicks the ball out of bounds. The crowd groans in disappointment.

These are all just happenings. Now let’s add in a self that is a decider. The construct of a self decider has practical value. The next day, you feel bad and think “I *should have* taken the shot on goal. I made a bad decision”. You watch game film with your coach and he tells you that you need to improve your decision-making and improve your ball handling skills. In the game video, the coach shows you that due to the position of the goalie, you would have had to shoot the ball with your left foot. The coach tells you that you favor your right foot and don’t have enough skill and confidence in your left foot. Your coach tells you to practice shooting with your left foot 1 hr per day - so the next time you are in that situation, you will make a better decision and shoot the ball with your left foot. You *decide* to follow his advice and, in doing so, you improve as a player. By the end of the season, you have scored three goals with your left foot and are in the starting lineup. 

The construct of a self that is deciding has practical value. It allows for personal development and improvement. Humans are the only species capable of creating constructs of self and decisions within a timeline. They are the only species that can reflect on decisions they have made in the past and how they can learn from their poor decisions (mistakes) and how they can improve in the future. This is a powerful asset for evolution. 

The construct of a self that is deciding has practical value. It allows for personal development and improvement. Humans are the only species capable of creating constructs of self and decisions within a timeline. They are the only species that can reflect on decisions they have made in the past and how they can learn from their poor decisions (mistakes) and how they can improve in the future. This is a powerful asset for evolution. . . . The construct of self as decider can also cause nene turmoil and suffering. The soccer player could also have been stigmatized for making such a stupid decision. He could have dropped off the team and beaten himself up for months for making such a bad decision. This could have reinforced a self image of being a loser and how he can never do anything right. . . Or the player could have thought he made the right decision passing the ball and it was his teammate’s fault. . . . Lot’s of different thought stories we can create with a self and a decider.

[Beginner Mind]

@Serotoninluv And so it must be this ego, with its false sense of doership, that claims responsibility for whatever action arises in the moment.  "I chose to pass the ball rather than shoot it."  But in truth, the ball was always going to be passed rather than shot, as part of the "destined" functioning of Consciousness....? 

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

@Serotoninluv And so it must be this ego, with its false sense of doership, that claims responsibility for whatever action arises in the moment.  "I chose to pass the ball rather than shoot it."  But in truth, the ball was always going to be passed rather than shot, as part of the "destined" functioning of Consciousness....? 

“Destined” is another construct and another can of worms. I would probably phrase it “The happening of the ball being passed is the happening of the ball being passed”. Humans love to think about causation of happenings because it is intimately tied to personal identity, responsibility, functioning in society and survival. . . . It’s very simple in that Now is Now and what is happening Now is perfectly happening Now. Yet the underlying mechanism of causation can get very complex. I’ve tried to integrate all the different inputs influencing causation of a happening like passing the soccer ball. It starts off simple like “the player just passed the ball”. Yet it then expands to many many inputs - how much training did the person have, how much sleep, the weather, the texture of the field, the shoes he was wearing, the neurotransmitters in his brain, his balance and muscle contraction in that moment, what he had for breakfast. . . And each of those inputs also have inputs. It soon expands into infinity and the construct collapses. . . Another way to look at it is that there is a trans-personal god-like source of intention influencing causation. In a traditional sense, religions create an external god that can decide and control happenings (yet also granted humans free will). A more modern construct is of a nondual god essence. I find this somewhat interesting, yet it hasn’t resonated strongly with me.

[NoSelfSelf]

If we did i would destroy world long time ago

Edited October 13, 2019 by NoSelfSelf

[Schahin]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

“Destined” is another construct and another can of worms. I would probably phrase it “The happening of the ball being passed is the happening of the ball being passed”. Humans love to think about causation of happenings because it is intimately tied to personal identity, responsibility, functioning in society and survival. . . . It’s very simple in that Now is Now and what is happening Now is perfectly happening Now. Yet the underlying mechanism of causation can get very complex. I’ve tried to integrate all the different inputs influencing causation of a happening like passing the soccer ball. It starts off simple like “the player just passed the ball”. Yet it then expands to many many inputs - how much training did the person have, how much sleep, the weather, the texture of the field, the shoes he was wearing, the neurotransmitters in his brain, his balance and muscle contraction in that moment, what he had for breakfast. . . And each of those inputs also have inputs. It soon expands into infinity and the construct collapses. . . Another way to look at it is that there is a trans-personal god-like source of intention influencing causation. In a traditional sense, religions create an external god that can decide and control happenings (yet also granted humans free will). A more modern construct is of a nondual god essence. I find this somewhat interesting, yet it hasn’t resonated strongly with me.

But yet, god is infinite intelligence, and things do happen somehow. So this intelkigenr nothingness because it is intelligent alive and divine, probably has an interest in developing itself, as Leo once said, to maximize love. 

Therefore everything IS, but also is happening somehow and that extends to infinity and infinity is god and god is intelligent, and we are god but still have no idea how reality unfolds.? So the intelligent God head must know even if it just is but still it is sonehow special and magical. And magical means magical and is beyond just IS. 

Certainly many people with certain illnesses and troublesome lifeconditions are only being too, but their lives proves that being can be special and wants to experience some type of being for whatever reason., which probably is to maximize love, which then needs some magical plan in order fornit not to be some random thing

Do you agree? 

[Beginner Mind]

26 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

“Destined” is another construct and another can of worms. I would probably phrase it “The happening of the ball being passed is the happening of the ball being passed”. Humans love to think about causation of happenings because it is intimately tied to personal identity, responsibility, functioning in society and survival. . . . It’s very simple in that Now is Now and what is happening Now is perfectly happening Now. Yet the underlying mechanism of causation can get very complex. I’ve tried to integrate all the different inputs influencing causation of a happening like passing the soccer ball. It starts off simple like “the player just passed the ball”. Yet it then expands to many many inputs - how much training did the person have, how much sleep, the weather, the texture of the field, the shoes he was wearing, the neurotransmitters in his brain, his balance and muscle contraction in that moment, what he had for breakfast. . . And each of those inputs also have inputs. It soon expands into infinity and the construct collapses. . . Another way to look at it is that there is a trans-personal god-like source of intention influencing causation. In a traditional sense, religions create an external god that can decide and control happenings (yet also granted humans free will). A more modern construct is of a nondual god essence. I find this somewhat interesting, yet it hasn’t resonated strongly with me.

By "destined" I don't necessarily mean that everything is predetermined...  Just that everything is ordained by the Source in the moment (not necessarily PRE-ordained).  Tony Parsons speaks of it as Being just flapping its arms around in the moment and making things happen spontaneously, through these dream characters called "you" and "me".

[Forestluv]

48 minutes ago, Beginner Mind said:

By "destined" I don't necessarily mean that everything is predetermined...  Just that everything is ordained by the Source in the moment (not necessarily PRE-ordained).  Tony Parsons speaks of it as Being just flapping its arms around in the moment and making things happen spontaneously, through these dream characters called "you" and "me".

Gotcha ? 

1 hour ago, Schahin said:

But yet, god is infinite intelligence, and things do happen somehow. So this intelkigenr nothingness because it is intelligent alive and divine, probably has an interest in developing itself, as Leo once said, to maximize love. 

Therefore everything IS, but also is happening somehow and that extends to infinity and infinity is god and god is intelligent, and we are god but still have no idea how reality unfolds.? So the intelligent God head must know even if it just is but still it is sonehow special and magical. And magical means magical and is beyond just IS. 

Certainly many people with certain illnesses and troublesome lifeconditions are only being too, but their lives proves that being can be special and wants to experience some type of being for whatever reason., which probably is to maximize love, which then needs some magical plan in order fornit not to be some random thing

Do you agree? 

You seem to suggest an external god as you say “developing itself”. What is “itself”? As well, you say god is magical “beyond just IS”. I’m not sure if you are creating dualistic categories or trying to describe facets of One diamond. 

I think your questions have been getting deeper and more advanced over the past month or so. As you go deeper into nonduality and into the collapse of dual/nondual, intellectual concepts won’t be center-stage anymore. It will provide structural support. Nonverbal things like intuition, empathy, beingness, essence, presence, knowing, Now etc will become more impactful.