Advice requested: Dealing with long-term backpain

[Identity]

For over a year now, I have been dealing with backpain. I have come to a point where I don’t see any clear steps for inproving my situation, and would appreciate advice.

The pain itself:

The pain resides in the middel part of my back, around the level of my heart. Its located both in my spine itself, and on the right side of it. What worries me, is that it feels like its getting worse, not better. It started of with a mild feeling of discomfort. Mostly when I had to stand or sit for a long time. Nowadays, I can feel it almost constantly. Its not excruciating pain, but even a few hours of sitting or standing it builds up quickly. 
 

What I have tried so far:

I have tried going to various experts to resolve the issue.
- I started out with a physiotherapist. I went there several sessions, but it became clear to me that the suggestions were not working, and I did not feel like she understood the actual problem.

- I have gone to massage therapists. They mainly massaged the area around the spine. The muscles there can get tense and stiff. Massage helps to relieve some of that, but again, not resolving the actual problem.

- I have gone to a regular doctor, who referred me to the hospital to take pictures of my spine. Both the docters, and my chiropractor, could not find anything out of the ordinary.

- Than I went to a chiropractor. I went there for 7 sessions or so. In the beginning I had the feeling it was helping, but looking back I think this wasnt the case. The last sessions did not help, and the chiropractor also didn’t have any clear idea of what the problem was. There was talk about it coming from my neck, I got some excercises which I did. Again no real sign of resolution.

At this point, I am really confused to be honest. I don’t know what is causing it. Is it simply related to my posture somehow, maybe how I sleep?

Is it related to some king of energetic blockage?

I even had some woman tell me I died from a spear that penetrated me at that point in a previous life ?

I really have no idea whats going on. Somehow I feel it might be due to me changing. I feel like I want to crack it into position somehow. Last week I did a psychedelic trip, where I had this image of me coming out of an egg, and having busted through with my head and right arm, creating a nick in my spine.

But honestly, I really just don’t know what it is, and where to turn to resolve it.

any suggestions?

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

I would mobilize your T-Spine with a foam roller, try to get it in full extension and is meant to also freely rotate in the transverse plane.

once its mobilized, strength work with structural balance for the upper body will make it more resilient to pain. Horizontal/vertical pulling movements as well as horizontal/vertical pushing movements, most effectively done by free weights to engage your abdominal muscles. If you dont know how to approach this I would go to a physical therapist that is also in the realm of strength coaching.

beyond that it could be psychological as well. Just the belief that its going to go away is often times strong enough to heal things like that. Your mind alone has a stronger influence on pain than we think.

[Identity]

@TrynaBeTurquoise Thank you for your advice. Most of the things you mention I have tried though. Ive got a foam roller and use it regularly.

I used to do a lot of strength excercises, I was quite a beast ?. However, it didnt feel like strenghtening was helping, rather the opposite. For the last half a year I stopped lifting weights, and lost 10kgs. Not sure whether picking it back up is the move here..

I think my next step will be to go to more experts.. find someone I feel can see the problem.

ps. Just read your quote, thats hilarious ???

Edited October 14, 2019 by Identity

[Flowerfaeiry]

Just a suggestion, but try getting into stretching/yoga. You might find it helps. 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

14 hours ago, Identity said:

@TrynaBeTurquoise Thank you for your advice. Most of the things you mention I have tried though. Ive got a foam roller and use it regularly.

I used to do a lot of strength excercises, I was quite a beast ?. However, it didnt feel like strenghtening was helping, rather the opposite. For the last half a year I stopped lifting weights, and lost 10kgs. Not sure whether picking it back up is the move here..

I think my next step will be to go to more experts.. find someone I feel can see the problem.

ps. Just read your quote, thats hilarious ???

Yeah lifting weights can be a major cause for pain and creating imbalances if something about the training is off, intensity/frequency/technique. Most likely certain muscles are tight/overworked and some are weak and under utilized. But under the supervision of the therapist, they can make sure you are strengthening the right areas with the most appropriate exercises. A second pair of eyes is always useful.

Yoga should help a lot too since its involving a lot of bodyweight strength, flexibility and stability.

thats good that you have a foam roller, also consider a lacrosse ball for digging deep into pinpoint areas of tightness if you have any

[Michael569]

Do you have a sedentary job? You may benefit from a standing desk, that stuff works wonders for some people

Also obvious as that sounds make sure you sit well, without hunching and ensure your screen is always on your eye level in front...not on side that forces you to be in half-twiseted position. For me, it helps to put a small pillow between my lower back and chair to prevent hunching. Avoid any werd twisted, sitting-on one leg positions and sit upright with both feet grounded and straight neck. 

Check if your bed has not turned into a sem-bowl, my old bed used to be like that. Your mattress needs to be relatively firm. 

Also, check if your n pillow isn't too high, sometimes one really slim pillow is better. 

Are you doing any heavy lifts in the gym that could be causing it? I would probably avoid deadlifts aheavy squads until it is fixed and do a lot of hanging of the bar, handstands and yoga as recommended above

I would also consider buying rubber bands and looking up some exercises for back mobility. It may be that your frontal muscles are stronger than some of your back muscles such as rhomboid major and minor as well as some of the long muscles protecting your spine that are usually neglected so your body is being pulled forward when you stop being conscious of your posture. 

And finally..if nothing else helps you may consider trying to get an MRI as you may genuinely have a toren muscle or ligament or have an damage in your spinal column that would not show up on physical examination. 

 

Edited October 15, 2019 by Michael569

[Johnny]

try a carnivore diet http://meatheals.com/category/back-pain/

 

[MAYA EL]

I'm sure that there is going to be a bunch of gym gurus hop on here and give you advice that they have only read about and not actually applied in there own life so please don't blindly do something without researching it a good bit .

With that said I have broken over 20 bones in my body from various is different martial arts and accidents and when I was 21 I got in a car wreck and crushed T5 T6 and T7 in my mid-back causing me to be out of the gym for about two years and I lost around 70 lb of muscle and when I got back in the gym I had to learn how to work out the smart way and so started me down The Path of Knowledge that I have been able to utilize to this day to help clients as I specialize in people that are injured and neither are going to physical therapy or right out of physical therapy yet are not confident enough to exercise on their own and or can't just yet.

I also had another accident when I was 26 where I contracted a BPI in C5 C6 C7  and was paralyzed 90% in my left arm and 75% in my right arm for 6 months and full recovery in 2yrs. And lost 70lb of muscle again. 

So I lived with back pain 24/7 for over 5yrs it was just part of life to me and I'm sure it effected my personality  because no one is going to be a happy camper if there always in pain.

But with all of that said I would like to tuch on some key points however I'm not necessarily going to tell you what you should do because without seeing you in person to do a postural analysis and functional movement evaluation I cannot properly confidently tell you what I think you should do as far as exercise is concerned because although exercise is great and something you need if you do the wrong exercises it will make you worse and quite rapidly.

Chiropractors are very valuable however it Chiropractic is the only thing he implemented chances of an actual recovery are slim to none due to environment to work in and the pre-existing muscle imbalances because everything is just going to pop back out of place and stay out of place until we fix the imbalance.

Now 99% of all people I've ever trained have an imbalance of some kind so I'm pretty confident based off of what you've shared so far that you have an imbalance.

Remember the spot that hurts is not the problem it's just the weakest point that gave out first and so based off of what you have said about the massage therapist that worked on you they were fluff and buff massage therapists and not anybody that specializes in injury recovery or post surgery /Tech it can be difficult to find a massage therapist that actually works on fixing issues as opposed to stopping pain and you should never go to a massage parlor such as Massage Envy or any place like that because those are not real massage therapists

they do not get paid like massage therapists and they do not have the education of a real massage therapist 

Your best bet would be to find a chiropractic office that has a massage therapist on staff or search for an independent massage therapist and one that has credentials that are in line with what you need.

Seeing as how the x-rays didn't show anything I'm going to assume you don't have any stress fractures( yet)

However you are at a higher risk of getting stress fractures due to the situation if it's truly is an imbalance which I'm sure it is and stress fractures will increase chronic pain and 25 years from now impossibly grow bone spurs which will then cause a slope problems so avoiding further damage is definitely important.

I don't know what you do for a living but I'm going to guess that you have the most popular type of imbalance which is due to your anterior being too tight in your posterior being overstretched so stretching and loosening your anterior line should bring you instant relief and Lasting relief. Have you done any research on trigger point and foam rolling? Those are two things that you can do yourself that don't cost you anything other than the price of a lacrosse ball lol and something you can do daily. There's also a page on Instagram I'll have to go find it I can't remember what it's called but it's very good and very informational on how to work on yourself to keep your posture healthy I'll post it as soon as I find it. Hope this helps. EDIT I found the page here it is https://www.instagram.com/moveu/

Edited October 15, 2019 by MAYA EL

[Identity]

@Flowerfaeiry Already do stretching every morning, and just bumped my yoga practice up to twice a week 

@TrynaBeTurquoise Yeah, the weightlifting might have been causing it in some way or another. Wreckless teen/early twenties throwing around heavy weights without proper instruction. Recipe for disaster. Also got the ball thingy, going to use that more! Thank you.

@Michael569 Hmm yeah, I do sit a lot. I've been trying to be mindful of my posture, but it's hard and confusing. It's like I don't know what my natural posture is at this point. I've been changing it, my body has changed, and also I feel like there is just something inherently wrong in my back, I don't know. 

I've tried indeed stretching chest muscles and training back muscles more. However, not with the any professional help, just some youtube videos. I will talk to the expert I will go to next week, and bring it up. If I don't find any solutions soon, MRI might be a good option indeed. Thank you.

@Johnny Thanks, but I'm good on the carnivore diet lol.

@MAYA EL Woah, that is quite some adversity you have had to face there. Amazing how you have dealt with it and have come back. Puts my issue into perspective as well.

 

 

 

1

47 minutes ago, MAYA EL said:

But with all of that said I would like to tuch on some key points however I'm not necessarily going to tell you what you should do because without seeing you in person to do a postural analysis and functional movement evaluation I cannot properly confidently tell you what I think you should do as far as exercise is concerned because although exercise is great and something you need if you do the wrong exercises it will make you worse and quite rapidly.

Yeah, great point. I am unsure what exercises would fit, so will seek help on that before taking more action.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

5

49 minutes ago, MAYA EL said:

Chiropractors are very valuable however it Chiropractic is the only thing he implemented chances of an actual recovery are slim to none due to environment to work in and the pre-existing muscle imbalances because everything is just going to pop back out of place and stay out of place until we fix the imbalance.

Now 99% of all people I've ever trained have an imbalance of some kind so I'm pretty confident based off of what you've shared so far that you have an imbalance.

However you are at a higher risk of getting stress fractures due to the situation if it's truly is an imbalance which I'm sure it is and stress fractures will increase chronic pain and 25 years from now impossibly grow bone spurs which will then cause a slope problems so avoiding further damage is definitely important.

I don't know what you do for a living but I'm going to guess that you have the most popular type of imbalance which is due to your anterior being too tight in your posterior being overstretched so stretching and loosening your anterior line should bring you instant relief and Lasting relief. 

Very interesting. One of the things I have become aware of is that the right side of my body is way more developed than the left side of my body. It's like I stand 70% on my right leg and only 30% on my left. Recently I noticed that the office chair I often sit in is actually is leaning right! I actually sit put so much more pressure on my right ass cheek that the chair is fucking bend (threw that thing out BTW). So if you are talking about inbalance, there is a huge on. Perhaps the posterior/anterior also plays a role, I'm not sure.

 

 

 

 

 

3

55 minutes ago, MAYA EL said:

Have you done any research on trigger point and foam rolling? Those are two things that you can do yourself that don't cost you anything other than the price of a lacrosse ball lol and something you can do daily. There's also a page on Instagram I'll have to go find it I can't remember what it's called but it's very good and very informational on how to work on yourself to keep your posture healthy I'll post it as soon as I find it. Hope this helps. EDIT I found the page here it is https://www.instagram.com/moveu/

Uhm, I think I have been doing a bit of that, but I will look into it more.

Thank you very much for your post, it is really insightful. Any chance you are living somewhere close to the Netherlands? Would definitely come by for a session  

@Shiva I would say I sit around 5-8 hours a day. The exercise thing has changed a lot over the last year. First I went to the gym 3+ times a week, mostly lifting weights and did one yoga session. Now I hardly go to the gym, do two yoga sessions, and stretch every morning.

 

Thank you all for your replies. It really means a lot that people are thinking along, gets me fired back up to solve this  Already made an appointment with a new physiotherapist for next week to do an intake. Curious to see whether he/she has anything new to say. I will also take your ideas with me, and propose these things (after he/she comes with own analysis and suggestions).

[MAYA EL]

9 hours ago, Identity said:

@Flowerfaeiry Already do stretching every morning, and just bumped my yoga practice up to twice a week 

@TrynaBeTurquoise Yeah, the weightlifting might have been causing it in some way or another. Wreckless teen/early twenties throwing around heavy weights without proper instruction. Recipe for disaster. Also got the ball thingy, going to use that more! Thank you.

@Michael569 Hmm yeah, I do sit a lot. I've been trying to be mindful of my posture, but it's hard and confusing. It's like I don't know what my natural posture is at this point. I've been changing it, my body has changed, and also I feel like there is just something inherently wrong in my back, I don't know. 

I've tried indeed stretching chest muscles and training back muscles more. However, not with the any professional help, just some youtube videos. I will talk to the expert I will go to next week, and bring it up. If I don't find any solutions soon, MRI might be a good option indeed. Thank you.

@Johnny Thanks, but I'm good on the carnivore diet lol.

@MAYA EL Woah, that is quite some adversity you have had to face there. Amazing how you have dealt with it and have come back. Puts my issue into perspective as well.

Yeah, great point. I am unsure what exercises would fit, so will seek help on that before taking more action.

Very interesting. One of the things I have become aware of is that the right side of my body is way more developed than the left side of my body. It's like I stand 70% on my right leg and only 30% on my left. Recently I noticed that the office chair I often sit in is actually is leaning right! I actually sit put so much more pressure on my right ass cheek that the chair is fucking bend (threw that thing out BTW). So if you are talking about inbalance, there is a huge on. Perhaps the posterior/anterior also plays a role, I'm not sure.

Uhm, I think I have been doing a bit of that, but I will look into it more.

Thank you very much for your post, it is really insightful. Any chance you are living somewhere close to the Netherlands? Would definitely come by for a session  

@Shiva I would say I sit around 5-8 hours a day. The exercise thing has changed a lot over the last year. First I went to the gym 3+ times a week, mostly lifting weights and did one yoga session. Now I hardly go to the gym, do two yoga sessions, and stretch every morning.

 

Thank you all for your replies. It really means a lot that people are thinking along, gets me fired back up to solve this  Already made an appointment with a new physiotherapist for next week to do an intake. Curious to see whether he/she has anything new to say. I will also take your ideas with me, and propose these things (after he/she comes with own analysis and suggestions).

Lol I wish but unfortunately I'm over here in the borning USA lol

[MAYA EL]

Yes if you can visually see an imbalance in your hips or any part of your body then that is most definitely contributing to the problem.  Stand in front of a full body mirror and put your thumbs on the bone that sticks out the most on ether side at about belt height (it is called the iliac Crest)

Standing straight facing the mirror and look and see if one thumb is lower/ higher then the other then from both sides see which leg hyper extends back (if at all) and lastly arms to the side facing the mirror see which shoulder is lower. 

[Red-White-Light]

@Identity hang from pull-up bars, do lower back extenstions, planks and back twist exercises.

[mandyjw]

I'm going to entertain the woo woo spiritual reasoning here since it seems you've thoroughly checked this out, Ramana Maharshi and Ramaji both talk about the right side of the heart and Ramaji talks about experiences with pain located there.

“This self is the eternal, immutable Self that ever throbs as ‘I’, ‘I’. It is not touched by birth and death; it is eternal. It is not confined to the physical body in which it stations itself; it is universal in its spread” writes MK Pandit, scholar sage of the highest order, in the book "Mighty Impersonality."
“Where is this Self to be found, is the next natural question. In the heart, is the answer. But it is made unambiguously clear that it is not the physiological heart on the left side of the body that is meant. The Heart that Maharshi speaks of is not the usual heart muscle. It is the spiritual heart which is two digits to the right of the center of the chest. it is not physical. It is in the subtle body and lends itself to be felt and experienced to the earnest inquirer in the course of his quest.

http://thinkingaboutsurvival.blogspot.com/2009/03/science-of-heart-and-sri-ramana.html

Edited October 23, 2019 by mandyjw

[Nickyy]

@Identity I had chronic back pain for 20 years which left me bed ridden for sometimes 2 weeks. I've thrown thousands of pounds at this problem and nothing has worked. I've had scans to check for arthritis and other issues and structurally I'm healthy.  So nobody could tell me what was happening with my back.

The worst episode I had was I tore a ligament in my sacreal joint which put me in bed, unable to walk (except getting up once per hour to move around) for five months. It was horrific. I was on diazepam to control the muscle spasms. 

The reason I tore my ligament was trying to stretch my hamstring by lying on a table and putting my leg up against a wall as per instructed by a physio. I pushed to hard and tore the ligament. 

Since then the ligament has healed (nearly 3 years) but I still get spasm in my lower back from the event. I have no idea why, but I think some injuries you just don't recover fully from.

So my advice is to start, don't stretch too much, and don't stretch without warning up first. 

My next tip is get yourself on an anti inflammatory diet. This really helps. Lots of fruit and vegetables and whole foods. Listen to your body and assess your energy and pain levels. 

The next thing is vitamin c powder taken to bowel tollerance. Look it up on Google. It has been probably the second most important thing I've done in healing my lifelong back issues.

Next thing is sleep on the floor. There are lots of advice on how to do this on YouTube. If you think about it it's not natural to sleep on a bed, and beds don't really support you anyway. I've tried all kinds of expensive mattress but nothing has been as comfortable and life saving for my back and joints as sleeping on the floor has. 

The last thing is do some sort of resistance training when you wake up first thing. 

[Ismael]

A couple of very important and basic things you could experiment with are:
 

• Squat 
• Hanging
• Spinal Waves

I'd recommend you try all of them to see where you're at with these. Can't know if this will do anything for the specific issue, but I felt like sharing these, because getting good in any of those three basic movements listed above will always be a good start.   

Explanations:

 

 

[inFlow]

@Identity What kind of work do you do? I had the same issue in the middle of my back near the right side. I actually found out that it's my job that's causing this - repetitive movement with my hands.

[Franz Ferdinand II]

Working out with physiotherapist is usually very beneficial but it will help you much more if you do sessions for few weeks straight (if you are phisically able to train that much) and after few weeks you will start to see benefits.