Where stand the joker(2019) on the political spectrum ?

[Aeris]

And what is your feedback on the movie ?

I think this movie is so real it is dreadful and beautiful.

'I believe in nothing' 

I m hungry to read your view on it. I liked it a lot and I think it translate a social state in our current modern society.

 

[tenta]

Somewhere on the left since it's the rich that the people joker inspired are against

[Hansu]

I find it weird how people seem to miss the point that Arthur never created the clown movement. It was the media that clorified his murders that in the end started up the whole "Rise up against the rich!" movement in the movie. Arthur never takes a political stand when he kills the men, he only stands up to his bullies who just happen to be rich, he doesnt want to fight rich people but the injustice.

[RichardY]

A Joker is apolitical. I've heard the movie is like "Falling Down" or "Taxi Driver". 

[tenta]

 

[Hansu]

1 hour ago, tenta said:

 

 

 

"And MAYBE we wont treat incels as if they are moral defectives, people who deserve to be shunned and cast out of society where they'll come back kicking the door and gun down us all down, we'll actually start treating them like human beings"

[abundance]

Joker himself is apolitical and an agent of chaos. I think the film in itself is a critique against capitalism and wealth inequality. In such systems people like the Joker can be potentially bred and take advantage of all the chaos.

Also its pretty funny how many on the right wing side of the spectrum totally miss that this film is a critique of capitalism and the disparities it creates.  

[Raze]

I liked the Joker because it did political messaging right. That is, it's open to interpretation. I've seen people on the left (Michael Moore) and people on the right both praising it and saying it agrees with them. It's also not in your face enough so you can enjoy the movie without feeling like you're being preached too.

This is way better then what a lot of movies are doing lately in my opinion.

This video I think is a good analysis about if the Joker is a victim, the guy in this video relates the Joker to his own experience with narcissism.

 

 

[Aeris]

11 hours ago, abundance said:

Joker himself is apolitical and an agent of chaos. I think the film in itself is a critique against capitalism and wealth inequality. In such systems people like the Joker can be potentially bred and take advantage of all the chaos.

Also its pretty funny how many on the right wing side of the spectrum totally miss that this film is a critique of capitalism and the disparities it creates.  

agent of love maybe

if society is living with a cancer, something that destroy cancer is healing it !
 

the cancer will refute and call that narcissism, to avoid his own very egoic self narcissism.

 

[abundance]

2 hours ago, Aeris said:

agent of love maybe

if society is living with a cancer, something that destroy cancer is healing it !
 

the cancer will refute and call that narcissism, to avoid his own very egoic self narcissism.

 

Very good point! Joker may be a necessary evil. 

[Hansu]

9 minutes ago, abundance said:

Joker may be a necessary evil. 

Would he be evil from his own point of view?

He seemed to be so confused about the attention given to the subway murders until he noticed that people were reacting positively to them. Only then he claimed his title as the killer. Its almost as if he was using feedback from other people to determine whether his action was good or wrong instead of a mindset that we use to judge murderors.

[Emerald]

On 10/12/2019 at 11:23 AM, Aeris said:

And what is your feedback on the movie ?

I think this movie is so real it is dreadful and beautiful.

'I believe in nothing' 

I m hungry to read your view on it. I liked it a lot and I think it translate a social state in our current modern society.

 

 Joker is definitely a movie depicting a mentally ill man's transition from struggling and falling through the cracks in Orange to becoming a shadow-leader in Green.

It is Green in its critiques against wealth inequality and how society negatively impacts vulnerable groups, since the Joker comes from a the working poor class and also has a mental illness and was raised by someone with a mental illness. So, it deals directly with the theme of systemic inequalities and how they impact individuals living within the system that is Gotham City and also the mental health care system within Gotham City.

It's a story about how some people fall through the cracks in our society and don't get the support they need, while everyone who excels in Orange just expects them to be like everyone else and compete in the rat race... even if they are like Arthur Fleck.

So, once Arthur Fleck starts out trying to conform and "be good" and fit into an Orange Capitalist society that Gotham City is a caricature of. And this doesn't work for him. He can't fit.

The social structures aren't evolved enough in this Orange society for him to fit or be accommodated to. He is oppressed and therefore suppressed... An no one REALLY sees him. And he feels it.

There is no place for him to exist as himself without struggling or being ostracized or just generally misunderstood because of his mental illness and the ignorance of the people around him to the reality of mental illness... especially when poverty and mental illness intersect with one another. 

Those in more privileged positions are quite tone-deaf to Arthur Fleck's struggles, and so life is hell for him. And he lives a life of isolation.

Then when he starts to journal and contemplate on things and experience contrast (through killing the rich guys on the subway and being celebrated as a hero of the working class) he becomes more empowered. But that empowerment comes in an unhealthy way. He becomes the leader of a systemically oppressed group of poor people that encompasses most people in Gotham City. 

So when he is empowered he becomes the Joker, and he is using unhealthy Green to empower himself and create fairness through chaos and a destructive leveling of power. There is no space for him to exist in society, so he takes on the space of the archetypal clown (aka trickster) and embraces his place as an outsider who seeks revenge on the powers that be. And his goal is to create anarchy where those at the top fall down, and he undermines the social structure that they've been thriving off of to turn the tables.

And he rallies other similarly outcasted and vulnerable people to his cause, which starts a chain reaction against the rich... in a similar fashion to the French Revolution's leveling of power structures via public violence, rioting, and guillotining the powerful.

So, he is inviting corrupt Green into a corrupt Orange society where economic oppression is the way of things (because, in this move, Gotham City is an ever-so-slightly more openly corrupt city than the average American city is in reality.)

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Emerald

[andyjohnsonman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNyd7uuDjpM

[SoothedByRain]

I love how Joaquin went from playing Jesus, really well, in a really good film. To the fucking Joker...

Like dreamers . . .

[Arthur]

Joker is a S.D. Green movie about mental health. It shows how people struggle with bad parenting, no social programs, wealth inequality etc.  Phoenix himself is a very socially aware Green guy. I recommend his movie "Her".

Edited November 6, 2019 by Arthur

[Harikrishnan]

On 03/11/2019 at 11:23 PM, Hansu said:

I find it weird how people seem to miss the point that Arthur never created the clown movement. It was the media that clorified his murders that in the end started up the whole "Rise up against the rich!" movement in the movie. Arthur never takes a political stand when he kills the men, he only stands up to his bullies who just happen to be rich, he doesnt want to fight rich people but the injustice.

Exactly. Arthur was in his own world all the people he killed in the movie was his bullies. He was standing up against his bullies. I think he never had anything against rich people. People made it like so. 

 green stage/orange calsh i saw in that film was when his support system was closed. Arthur i think was red. 

People protesting against rich cannot be termed green its normal for stage blue and red.

[Aeris]

On 05/11/2019 at 5:43 PM, Emerald said:

 Joker is definitely a movie depicting a mentally ill man's transition from struggling and falling through the cracks in Orange to becoming a shadow-leader in Green.

It is Green in its critiques against wealth inequality and how society negatively impacts vulnerable groups, since the Joker comes from a the working poor class and also has a mental illness and was raised by someone with a mental illness. So, it deals directly with the theme of systemic inequalities and how they impact individuals living within the system that is Gotham City and also the mental health care system within Gotham City.

It's a story about how some people fall through the cracks in our society and don't get the support they need, while everyone who excels in Orange just expects them to be like everyone else and compete in the rat race... even if they are like Arthur Fleck.

So, once Arthur Fleck starts out trying to conform and "be good" and fit into an Orange Capitalist society that Gotham City is a caricature of. And this doesn't work for him. He can't fit.

The social structures aren't evolved enough in this Orange society for him to fit or be accommodated to. He is oppressed and therefore suppressed... An no one REALLY sees him. And he feels it.

There is no place for him to exist as himself without struggling or being ostracized or just generally misunderstood because of his mental illness and the ignorance of the people around him to the reality of mental illness... especially when poverty and mental illness intersect with one another. 

Those in more privileged positions are quite tone-deaf to Arthur Fleck's struggles, and so life is hell for him. And he lives a life of isolation.

Then when he starts to journal and contemplate on things and experience contrast (through killing the rich guys on the subway and being celebrated as a hero of the working class) he becomes more empowered. But that empowerment comes in an unhealthy way. He becomes the leader of a systemically oppressed group of poor people that encompasses most people in Gotham City. 

So when he is empowered he becomes the Joker, and he is using unhealthy Green to empower himself and create fairness through chaos and a destructive leveling of power. There is no space for him to exist in society, so he takes on the space of the archetypal clown (aka trickster) and embraces his place as an outsider who seeks revenge on the powers that be. And his goal is to create anarchy where those at the top fall down, and he undermines the social structure that they've been thriving off of to turn the tables.

And he rallies other similarly outcasted and vulnerable people to his cause, which starts a chain reaction against the rich... in a similar fashion to the French Revolution's leveling of power structures via public violence, rioting, and guillotining the powerful.

So, he is inviting corrupt Green into a corrupt Orange society where economic oppression is the way of things (because, in this move, Gotham City is an ever-so-slightly more openly corrupt city than the average American city is in reality.)

 

loved it.

maybe he touched turquoise while he was dancing.

we should be aware of unhealthy green. That's a lot of shadow, still having to work on many in myself.

but that's still better than the whole orange vision system that just turn me sick to vomit on myself  

very good perspective emerald, always appreciating your view

start your own channel in movie critic! 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Aeris

[Aeris]

9 hours ago, Harikrishnan said:

Exactly. Arthur was in his own world all the people he killed in the movie was his bullies. He was standing up against his bullies. I think he never had anything against rich people. People made it like so. 

 green stage/orange calsh i saw in that film was when his support system was closed. Arthur i think was red. 

People protesting against rich cannot be termed green its normal for stage blue and red.

nah that's wrong, Hitler was Red/green for instance, very weirdly.

And you don't live up only to a stage, mostly you are on a chord of stages.

a lot of unhealthy green, they cope more with MANY BLUE IN THEM, all around the fucking forum  

AND THEY REPRESS THEIR RED SHADOW to paint themself as pure green angel.

green is good, but super hardcore to transcend, that's why yellow is very hard to ground without a tons of grounding work and a tons of direct absolute experience through open mindedness and and a tons of differents practice of reality.

of course those are my views.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Aeris

[Hatfort]

The situation of Gotham in the movie seems red to me, a lot of struggle to survive and very violent.

There are interesting issues. One is how a society handles its mentally ill members, is it willing to pay for social workers to handle them and give them the right therapies or medicines or is it willing to face the consecuences of not doing so. Same for gun control, is it willing to implement a higher gun control or will face the consecuences if not. Well, the movie puts those two elements together, plus others like the big inequality and poverty in the city.

[Nickyy]

@Aeris The movie is incredibly emotional. It had me glued to the screen for the whole two hours. Very entertaining and very disturbing at points, even to the point of pathetic in the sense that Arthur's only happiness was actually a very miserable state of trying to create an illusion of feeling powerful to compensate for his pathological unmet need for attention.

I don't think there is anything more to the film than its a depiction of how a mentally ill person might interpret themselves and the world.

The way Arthur saw reality and others was very skewed, and for me thats why the film was so sad.

However,

As much as I love the song, I don't think they should have used Gary Glitters "Rock N Roll 2" in the film. That was absolutely politically incorrect.