Cognitive Dissonance

[Water]

Hey all, 

For a little over a month I've been torn between what I thought was reality and what is.

I pulled this off of Wikipedia.

"Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses on how humans strive for internal consistency. An individual who experiences inconsistency (dissonance) tends to become psychologically uncomfortable, and is motivated to try to reduce this dissonance—as well as actively avoid situations and information likely to increase it.[1]"

What I did was the opposite. I delved deep into self inquiry around the beginning of April. Before this I would only experience glimpses for short moments. The aftermath was uncomfortable to say the least. It would normally consist of phasing out of my current reality and what felt like seeing through a "world perspective" its a little difficult to explain. Then almost instantaneously I would begin to dry heave. Its just too overwhelming... The dry heaving would also happen when I would be triggered by certain things, For example an ant. I would literately try to experience what the ant is feeling, but it wasn't really voluntary. I had to let off and distance myself from it all for a bit. I'm not sure if it was the right move but I've had other things going on and it was all to much. Even though. I'm honestly feeling good about this.

[Water]

I'm not crazy I promise  Did I post this in the wrong section?

[Telepresent]

Hello!

Can you clarify something for me?  In your description about dry-heaving because of an and, you say that it "wasn't really voluntary".  But then you say" I'm not sure if it was the right move but I've had other things going on and it was all to much."

What was the difference between these two moments of being?

[Water]

I never felt like I chose to have those experiences, they just happened. I can only assume it was  because of the perspective or "lens" I was looking through at the time. I would momentarily disconnect from myself and shift awareness to a perspective that wasn't so focused. I was at a play and after a few seconds of starring at the back of peoples heads I had no Idea what I was looking at. I honestly had no idea that these were "humans". They were just bodies. A third person point of view is another way to closely describe it. But it goes against everything I've learned from society and what people have taught me. Maybe i'm wrong about what this is. I'm just looking for as much information as possible so that the next time this happens I'm more prepared.

 

6 hours ago, Telepresent said:

" I'm not sure if it was the right move but I've had other things going on and it was all to much."

I've pondered on this a lot. whether or not I made the right choice by backing off of self inquiry at that time. Im very curious to know what would have happened had I continued. But I had a lot of responsibilities starting a business, full time job, managing other projects. It was starting to affect the other aspects of my life. To be quite honest it made everything else seem pointless... I'm not sure if I want to be there yet. I would like to get financially stable first.

[Natasha]

@Water Ken Wilber's integral school of knowledge recommend to work on developing your ego first in order to be able to transcend it. From that perspective, what you're doing makes perfect sense and could potentially get you ahead  

[Water]

Thanks @Natasha I really appreciate the feedback. I've never heard of Ken Wilber but I've looked at his website and it seems pretty interesting. Why do you think they recommend developing it first?

[charlie2dogs]

58 minutes ago, Water said:

I never felt like I chose to have those experiences, they just happened. I can only assume it was  because of the perspective or "lens" I was looking through at the time. I would momentarily disconnect from myself and shift awareness to a perspective that wasn't so focused. I was at a play and after a few seconds of starring at the back of peoples heads I had no Idea what I was looking at. I honestly had no idea that these were "humans". They were just bodies. A third person point of view is another way to closely describe it. But it goes against everything I've learned from society and what people have taught me. Maybe i'm wrong about what this is. I'm just looking for as much information as possible so that the next time this happens I'm more prepared.

 

I've pondered on this a lot. whether or not I made the right choice by backing off of self inquiry at that time. Im very curious to know what would have happened had I continued. But I had a lot of responsibilities starting a business, full time job, managing other projects. It was starting to affect the other aspects of my life. To be quite honest it made everything else seem pointless... I'm not sure if I want to be there yet. I would like to get financially stable first.

you said:  To be quite honest it made everything else seem pointless... I'm not sure if I want to be there yet. I would like to get financially stable first.

 A self realized being doesnt see everything as pointless.

You said you didnt want to be there yet, where is this there you spoke of?

you are and will do what is important to you as a human identity and as the ego will allow.  a self realized being has the ability to see reality, and to choose how events unfold if they unfold at all,  but their choice is pretty much limited in one area, what ever they choose they will want to maintain a state of liberation, so their choices will take them in the direction of liberation.

stop worrying, when the student is ready the master will appear.

[Water]

9 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

A self realized being doesnt see everything as pointless.

Allow me to rephrase. Everything society deems important felt pointless, materialism, career, typical shallow relationships.

 

17 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

You said you didnt want to be there yet, where is this there you spoke of?

A place in my life where I can direct most of my energy and awareness to spiritual work. I'm currently working towards it, thankfully its in the not so distant future.

 

23 minutes ago, charlie2dogs said:

what ever they choose they will want to maintain a state of liberation, so their choices will take them in the direction of liberation.

Well put. Definitely something to keep in mind.

Any input on the dry heaving? Or sources you would know where I could gather more information on it?

[Natasha]

23 minutes ago, Water said:

Thanks @Natasha I really appreciate the feedback. I've never heard of Ken Wilber but I've looked at his website and it seems pretty interesting. Why do you think they recommend developing it first?

"The ego is not a thing, but a subtle effort, and you cannot use effort to get rid of effort - you end up with two efforts instead of one. The ego itself is a perfect manifestation of the Divine, and it is best handled by resting in Freedom, not by trying to get rid of the ego, which simply increases the effort of ego itself." 

"The very desire to seek enlightenment is in fact nothing, but the grasping tendency of the ego itself, and thus the very search for enlightenment prevents it. The perfect practice is therefore not to search for enlightenment , but to inquire into the motive for seeking itself. You obviously seek in order to avoid the present, and yet the present alone holds the answer: to seek forever is to miss the point forever. You always already are enlightened Spirit, and therefore to seek Spirit is simply to deny Spirit."

"As Hubert Benoit said, it is not the identification with the ego that is the problem, but the exclusive nature of the identification. When our self-identity expands beyond the ego, into the deeper psychic, then even into the Unborn and One Taste, the ego is simply taken up and subsumed in a grander identity. But the ego itself remains as the functional  self in the gross realm, and it might even appropriately be intensified  and made more powerful , simply because it's now plugged into the entire Kosmos."

- Ken Wilber 

 

[Water]

7 minutes ago, Natasha said:

but to inquire into the motive for seeking itself.

Could you elaborate on this?

[Natasha]

21 minutes ago, Water said:

Could you elaborate on this?

Enlightenment is the end of the energy of seeking. It suddenly can vanish, suddenly be there no more. And what is left when the seeker collapses is completely unknowable and can't be described. But you could say in words that all that left when the seeking ends is which is already free-flowing unboundness

 

[Mal]

1 hour ago, Natasha said:a  the ego itself remains as the functional  self in the gross realm

Yes. And this is why you can still have all kinds of addictions and delusions and at the same time be enlightened. 

Trungpa and his alcoholism and womanising spring to mind here. 

Very low on the self development hierarchy, but as long as you can make the gross realm an object then youre awakened. 

In fact, this can become quite dangerous because of the careless nature of realization. 

[Water]

@Natasha That's very interesting.

59 minutes ago, Mal said:

but as long as you can make the gross realm an object then youre awakened. 

What do you mean by this?

[Mal]

@Water

The gross realm is where most people live - sex, money, power.  Reputation, safety, physiological needs, and all that goes with it.  The problems of this world created by "ego's".  

 

[cetus]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 6:50 PM, Water said:

 

@Water I was reading this topic you started. Great direction to head in from the posters.@Natasha @Mal

Edited May 29, 2016 by cetus56

[Leo Gura]

@Water Whenever you're having strong emotional reactions like that, you gotta wonder, Isn't this a clue that there is something deeply amiss here? Like, why would my mind react this violently? What is the mind hiding with this maneuver?

Yeah, on some days the ego will prevail. Let that be okay. That's why we meditate every day. That's why this path requires strong habits and practices. You gotta outlast the ego here. You cannot overpower it. Because it is you!

[Water]

@cetus56 I agree.

@Leo Gura Interesting questions. I feel as though in those moments I'm cracking open a window, but the wind (energy) is so powerful I get overwhelmed and quickly shut it. Instead of accepting and allowing this energy to flow something is resisting. It's easy for me to claim it's from my past conditioning but the hole probably goes deeper.

23 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What is the mind hiding with this maneuver?

When you say this do you mean the mind actually knows what's going on? Is this another way of saying this is the ego attempting to validate it's existence?

 

[Water]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, on some days the ego will prevail. Let that be okay. That's why we meditate every day. That's why this path requires strong habits and practices. You gotta outlast the ego here. You cannot overpower it. Because it is you!

That's extremely comforting.

[charlie2dogs]

4 hours ago, Water said:

Allow me to rephrase. Everything society deems important felt pointless, materialism, career, typical shallow relationships.

 

A place in my life where I can direct most of my energy and awareness to spiritual work. I'm currently working towards it, thankfully its in the not so distant future.

 

Well put. Definitely something to keep in mind.

Any input on the dry heaving? Or sources you would know where I could gather more information on it?

the only heaving i know anything about is when i was younger and thought booze was a good thing, did some heaving then but that is about it, sorry i can't help with that, but good answers to the questions, thanks