Are violent dreams ethical ?

[ltp]

Hi,

 

If there is no real metaphysical distinction between dreaming experience and normal, "awake" experience, is it somehow unethical to dream about people suffering, violence, etc ? I mean even after realising oneness, even if there are no "others", the sage doesn't go about hurting the people he's imagining when he's awake. Is he supposed to stop imagining hurting people when he sleeps ?

 

Thanks for your answers

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Its not unethical, because there is still a difference between the asleep dream and the waking dream (life). Just like if you daydream violence and suffering, its not unethical. 

Dreams can be a release for doing stuff you cant do in waking life. But, I dont know why you would want to dream of violence and suffering, if it is unappealing just don’t. On the other hand if it gives you a release or something do it, so you dont get the “thought crime” guilt creep into your life. Your dreams are your own personal freedom, just keep them in line with your core values.

Edited October 9, 2019 by TrynaBeTurquoise

[Forestluv]

Welcome to the forum Itp! 

You ask a wonderfully inquisitive question. Your question is at the interface between objectivism and relativeism. It is a major jump up in consciousness. In SD terms it is going from Orange to Green/Yellow. I can explain it logically, yet keep in mind that there is logical understanding as well as embodiment. Embodiment often comes through direct experience in which the person just "gets it", deeper than thinking.

You question combines duality and nonduality, which can cause confusion. You start off with nonduality, then switch to dualistic relativity. Let's consider the four different constructs we can create:

1) Pure Dualistic: The vast majority of people are in a pure dualistic mindset and will subconsciously have the following construct:

There is a difference between dreaming experience and awake experience. As well, there is a difference between ethical behavior and unethical behavior. Such a person will subconsciously believe that dreams are illusions and awake is real. They will also subconsciously assume that things like violence is unethical and things like honesty is ethical. The problem with this construct is that the person assumes there is an objective reality of dream vs. awake and ethical vs. unethical. They are not conscious that these are relative constructs they are creating (and society creates). I would estimate 85% of the world's population is locked into this orientation. About 13% of the population has rudimentary awareness of relativity and about 2% have a fairly solid understanding. 

2) Pure Nondual: There is no difference between dreaming experience and awake experience. As well, there is no difference between ethical behavior and unethical behavior. It's all just ISness. Here there is no difference between sleeping and awake or between violence and peace. This is an advanced conscious state. I would estimate that only about 1% of the population has a solid theoretical understanding of this and has had some nondual direct experience that they recognized and integrated. Yet I would estimate that only about 0.0001% of the population has deeply embodied this. The challenge with this orientation is that is runs counter to the pure dualistic perspective described above. Humans will strongly resist this pure nondualistic perspective because it involves the dissolution of all dualities including right vs wrong, sense of self, personal survival etc. A subjective nondual experience can be blissful and liberating - yet it can also be very scary and threatening. . . A second complication is that humans live in a relative world and 99.9% of the world's people are spending the vast majority of their time within subconscious dualistic constructs. It would be very difficult to function and survival while always being in a nondual state of consciousness. Imagine trying to function in society with no sense of ethical vs. unethical. No sense of up vs. down. No sense of dream vs. awake. It would be very difficult to function. Those at more advanced stages often talk about "flipping" between nondual and dual conscious states. (Yet this itself is also a dualistic construct).

3) Dual/Nondual Hybrid: There is a difference between dream and awake (dual), yet no difference between ethical and nonethical (nondual). Such a person would distinguish between when they are dreaming and when they are awake, yet would not distinguish between things dishonesty/honesty, violence/peace etc. I think this would be more of a thought experiment and not relevant to your question.

4) Dual/Nondual Hybrid: There is no difference between dream and awake (nondual), yet a difference between ethical and nonethical (dual). This is the framework of your question. Notice how you start off saying "what if there is no distinction between dreaming experience and awake experience". That is a nondual construct. . . Here comes the big jump in consciousness, fasten your seatbelt. . . Notice how you subconsciously assumed that there is a difference between ethical and unethical (violence). There is an underlying assumption that this difference is objective. The big jump in consciousness is to realize that this difference is not objective, it is relative. You are creating it. Societies create it. This underlying question led to your question "Is he *supposed to*. . . ". . . *Supposed to* is reflective of a mind that is assuming there is objective ethics and is unaware of relativity. This is a very very common assumption. This first step is to consciously realize this intellectually, yet the much deeper realization is the post-intellectual embodiment, which is much more difficult to obtain. . . Many people may say "Yea, yea, I know it's all relative. . . but what about. . .". They may intellectually recognize relativity, yet their underlying orientation is objectivism.

So there highest conscious answer to your question is there is no answer. You can create any of the above constructs you want. You create your own reality. . . However, we live as a person in a relative world and some constructs are more practical in life. If I were to build a practical construct regarding your question it would look something like this: If someone is dreaming about suffering and violence that is reflective of underlying psychological issues at the human level. The mind and body may become distressed by such dreams. This could interfere with there waking life. It may cause problems in their relationships and at work. It could be a signal that the person has psychological issues they need to work through for personal development toward a healthier life. However, I wouldn't judge the violent dreams as ethical or unethical and I would not judge or sham the person for having them. If they asked me for help, I would try to empathize and help them. 

[Gnostic Christian]

Yes, all dreaming is moral and ethical.

Dreams lack your conscious volition and without what secular law calls mens rea, Latin for an evil mind or intent, you are not guilty of any infraction as that same measure applies in this case.

Dream on buddy, without worry.

Regards

DL