Arent psychedelics a bit too good to be true?

[Peo]

Psychedelics seem a bit too good to be true, what is the catch? It seems way to easy to just take some 5 meo dmt and just wait 5 min and then you suddenly have a blown out enlightenmet experience. You can even have a deeper enlightenmet experience a zen master that has spend 30 years of pursuing awakening. It seems way to easy.

One thing i have learned in life is that everything has a catch. 

So my question is what is the prize? Or is it just as easy as to just take some psychedelics over some few years and be awake as fuck. 

[Forestluv]

@Peo You are missing the part about baseline conscious level and contextualization. If Trump did 5-meo there is a minuscule chance he would be able to integrate it as a full blown enlightenment experience. His baseline conscious level is way too low. On the other end of the spectrum someone who has had 30 years experience of personal development and conscious work would have a high likelihood of integrating it as a full blown enlightenment experience. The vast majority of people are somewhere in between and it’s much harder to predict. We can look at controlled studies in which normies are given a psychedelic in a clinical setting under the guidance of a health care provider. The majority of patients report it to be one of the most profound experiences of their life and that deep insights were revealed. Psychologists say one six hour session can be worth years of psycho-therapy. Yet most participants won’t be able to fully integrate the magnitude. This takes a high level of baseline consciousness. As well, usually only aspects of Truth are revealed and it takes many trips to be exposed to enough aspects such that a holistic big shebang is revealed and integrated.

[Peo]

@Serotoninluv Are you saying that i need to develeop my self with meditation and spiral dyanmic in order to raise my conscious to make psychedelics more effective to for conscious work? Leo did talk something about that people that are in above stage orange are much more liklihood of integrationg an full blown enlightenment experience then the lower stages.

[Forestluv]

@Peo In terms of SD baseline consciousness, I would say green is where things generally start clicking with psychedelics. I was at upper orange / lower green when I first tripped. Yet I went into it humble and open. I really wanted to expand and I was teachable. My first trip took me into Turquoise and obliterated my orange anchors. Transcendence of Orange in one shot. . . Yet I also had years of personal development and meditation before that first trip. There might not be the same impact on other people. There are a lot of variables at play. 

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

If Trump did 5-meo there is a minuscule chance he would be able to integrate it as a full blown enlightenment experience. His baseline conscious level is way too low. On the other end of the spectrum someone who has had 30 years experience of personal development and conscious work would have a high likelihood of integrating it as a full blown enlightenment experience. @Serotoninluv

There is a story about a spiritual seeker traveling through India and offered a well known guru acid. Out of curiosity the guru took a tab and after a few hours of the guru sitting there seeming unmoved the seeker asked: "So what do you think of that?".  The guru replied:  "western culture is materialistic so enlightenment has come to them through material form".  

So what is the moral of this story? Perhaps "Never confuse effort with results?".

 

[Forestluv]

42 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

There was a story about a spiritual seeker traveling through India and offered a well known guru acid. Out of curiosity the guru took a tab and after a few hours of the guru sitting there seeming unmoved the seeker asked: "So what do you think of that?".  The guru replied:  "western culture is materialistic so enlightenment has come to them through material form".  

So what is the moral of this story? Perhaps "Never confuse effort with results?".

 

I like that perspective. I hadn’t thought of it like that.

I’m not so interested in how enlightened sages would experience/interpret psychedelic bells and whistles such as different realms, spirit guides, fractals, aliens etc. I’d want them to see/experience deconstruction to Nothing and re-construction to Everything. Then I’d ask “Wudda ya think?”

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Peo said:

One thing i have learned in life is that everything has a catch.

The catch is, you have to die in the process.

The catch is, you will resist awakening even if it's in pill form.

It doesn't matter how easy awakening is, you will never want to do it.

[cetus]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

I’d want them to see/experience deconstruction to Nothing and re-construction to Everything. 

 i would venture a guess that for the enlightened master it's no more then opening and closing  their eyes.

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

 i would venture a guess that for the enlightened master it's no more then opening and closing  their eyes.

? 

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

The catch is it could potentially be one of the most mentally challenging experiences your psyche can undergo. Its not just a guaranteed trip to cloud 9, you have to confront traumatic and unsettling shit from time to time.

[Aeris]

10 hours ago, Peo said:

Psychedelics seem a bit too good to be true, what is the catch? It seems way to easy to just take some 5 meo dmt and just wait 5 min and then you suddenly have a blown out enlightenmet experience. You can even have a deeper enlightenmet experience a zen master that has spend 30 years of pursuing awakening. It seems way to easy.

One thing i have learned in life is that everything has a catch. 

So my question is what is the prize? Or is it just as easy as to just take some psychedelics over some few years and be awake as fuck. 

The Price is month/year of integrating the update.

Your body will create all sort of brainfuck and body tension the more your ego was a Fucker.

So yes that's the fast/violent way.

There is a cons. 

It still take years of integrating everything

[Skanzi]

It can become a sort of attachment. If there's anything that is regarded as overly significant in your life, you will start attaching yourself to it. It then start becoming a problem, particularly when for whatever reason the substance won't be available to you anymore (for instance, you are send to prison).

Life, God or Existence has provided us with external tools that can help us guide and accelerate our awakening. However, all of these tools can at some point become more important than the Being that observes it. That's when it becomes a problem.

To insist that we must awaken alone without the use of any external means, be it a technique, be it psychedelics, be it a guru, be it knowledge, is ignorant.

To insist that enlightenment or awakening is solely or primarily dependent on any form of an external means, is equally ignorant. yes, even if it's 5-MeO-DMT or this "super psychedelic" Leo has been talking about. It has its purpose, but also its limitations.

I'd say it's about 50/50. Make use of external knowledge, techniques, gurus, psychedelics and so forth to accelerate your awakening, but pay equally as much attention to the souls need to detach yourself from these external means so that it can come to know that it itself is inherently enlightened and free.

Because to rely on any external means for our awakening is a sort of bondage, a sort of restraint of our freedom. Yet, at the same time, if we try to deny our need for it we'll end up in a bigger mess.

Freedom from any external events or means is the ultimate, but it is not the path. The path requires you to become attached to external means to come to know what the freedom from it means.

I myself for instance had to take more than a year of detaching myself and grounding myself after my first use of psychedelic mushrooms before I could feel the readiness to do it again.

Yes, it's very paradoxical. Simply understand that there is a time to use and rely on the use of external means, and that there is a time to renounce it and find value, freedom and peace inherently within yourself. If you take either one to far to an extreme, you will end up creating unnecessary suffering for yourself.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Skanzi

[Peo]

@Skanzi Well that is a big problem, i think i have already become attached to psyhedelics and it creats suffering. Although i think that when i use psyhedelics i will just become more detached from psyhedelics. well thats my theory anyway. I can't just become detached in an intence, if only it was that easy. 

When we begin our spirtual path we start with the ego and as the more you do this work, the more of your ego dies.

[Peo]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The catch is, you have to die in the process.

The catch is, you will resist awakening even if it's in pill form.

It doesn't matter how easy awakening is, you will never want to do it.

My biggest question i want to answer is "What is death?", "who am i?" and what is this very moment or what you guys call consciousness?

So if i have to die in order to answer these question let it be. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Peo

[Nahm]

@Peo Have you sat with a pad of paper, contemplated what death is, and wrote down whatever comes up? 

[mandyjw]

Everyone gets attached to their own methods, no matter what they are. It's fine to love the methods you use, but pure love is non-attachment. Just like you appear to have come here as a person, you'll have to discover your own path, teachers and methods, but all those things are fiction and part of a story. Do you want to write in a too-good-to-be-true solution to the "problem" in your story? Or would you rather make it into a more complicated quest and scavenger hunt? 

[Peo]

@Nahm No but i will do it and se what see what comes up.

[Corpus]

Psychedelics are more of a catalyst which act on the substrate of your cognition to reveal newer more flexible ways of thinking and in the process make many of the concepts which the self-actualization work is replete with become illuminated in a way that facilitates progress along the path. The substrate is your baseline consciousness which you bring to the experience hence the variability between what different users get out of it. They work best as an adjunct to the more established slower methods and complement them in a way which speeds up progress. The catch in part is due to the users extolling them beyond their objective worth, and a tendency to ascribe rock-solid conclusions on the basis of what could be explained by predictable neurochemical effects as being indicative of an ultimate explanation. I have used them for over 30 years and love them but such an apprenticeship makes clear their limitations. 

[outlandish]

16 hours ago, Peo said:

Psychedelics seem a bit too good to be true, what is the catch? It seems way to easy to just take some 5 meo dmt and just wait 5 min and then you suddenly have a blown out enlightenmet experience. You can even have a deeper enlightenmet experience a zen master that has spend 30 years of pursuing awakening. It seems way to easy.

There is a misunderstanding about how psychedelics work. They aren't causative like that. It's not like taking some penicillin and making the bacteria go away, or taking a paracetemol and having your temperature go down. They aren't really zen in a pill like people sometimes think, especially people who've never taken them. 

Generally speaking, psychedelics are generic mind-amplifiers. Each psychedelic shines in different areas of the mind which it amplifies, but as a general pattern they are context-free. Psychedelics don't care if you have enlightening experiences, they are more like tools for opening the mind to new modes of being.

So when you take a psychedelic, there's still work to do. If you want to use the psychedelic for enlightening yourself, it's something you have to work on. It can help you open the door in a big way, but it's still you who has to choose which door to open and to walk yourself through it. 

And when the psychedelic effects have dissipated and you find yourself back in your mundane shoes, it's up to you what you do with that.

Maybe it's a bit like weights in the gym. They are very effective tools for getting stronger. You can get strong without them, but they work really well in that path. But it's still you who has to go to the gym and lift, and face the challenge. They weights don't do it for you.

[Leo Gura]

Things are not pre-determined. You as God play a crucial role in how things get determined going forward.

You are NOT a passive observer of reality. You are The Creator.

What do you want to create? << that's the crucial question.

If you decide to live in your Mom's basement and eat Cheetos all day, that's what you've chosen to create whether you realize it or not. Don't squander your creative capacity.