Dating Advice For Incels

[Focus Shift]

 This is a topic that's interested me for a while because for a while I was struggling with approaching the opposite sex. Recently I've been having more success approaching women and it's so much more fun to put yourself out there. What are your thoughts on Incels and how we can help them move in a more constructive direction? 

[Emerald]

@Focus Shift Good video, sans the "anti-pc" and "anti-snowflake" guys like JP and the other guy.

That just espouses more of the ideology that got incels into the spot they're currently in. And more than likely, they'll take a half-step up to those guys' level, feel the sense of improvement, and get stuck there. It's better than being an incel, but it's still a trap.

But otherwise, I think he touched on some great points... especially the part where he was talking about changing the identity and the self-story. That's what I would have suggested. 

 

[Focus Shift]

@Emerald You're not the only one to critique my use of Jordan Peterson and Dan Pena hahaha. However, from a spiral dynamics perspective I put them in there so that Incels could integrate stage orange before moving on to green and so on. 

[crab12]

I like the editing and the video feels quality. Compassion and understanding can help get them, though they get demonized by the mainstream and this only entrenches and embitters them further.

Usually they come from broken / dysfunctional families and they never developed an adult ego. JP is a good role model for them because he understands them and talks their language. Yeah and you can't skip stages.

They have massive victim thinking regarding women. The top rated comment under your video sums it up nicely:

Quote

Most important: Just look tall and handsome.

So now they disregard everything you say because obviously you are tall and handsome yourself and have no idea how what it's like for them. And their life experience confirms this myth. Because they have only experienced failure, rejection and disregard from women so they rationalize that it must be the looks and height and money. What else could it be? If you tell them it's their undeveloped ego and social skills they think you are being silly. It's really difficult to break someone out of this mental trap because it feels so real to them. Confirming evidence is everywhere. Just look at this graph:

You can overcome these disadvantages and obstacles by years of incredible dedication and hard work. But this work feels "unfair" to those guys, why should they go thorough 5 years of incredible effort just to get an average looking girlfriend who never had to work for any of it?

I wanted to point out how entrenched they are in their victim thinking. Your video is in the right direction but it has be a lot more nuanced to have an effect. It has to address all of their mental obstacles and uproot their deep victim thinking.

[Focus Shift]

It is a process to unwire limiting beliefs and it takes a lot of time to adopt a more positive outlook. However it takes action and courage to really put yourself out there and get out of a rut. I do little things like when I'm going grocery shopping and they ask for your number in the machine I tell the clerk "I wouldn't mind giving you my number" and they usually blush or giggle xD. It's uncomfortable but over time it gets easier. Perhaps I could make an extension of this topic in a future video, though there's a lot of topics I'd like to go into for now. 

[Forestluv]

@Emerald I see a lot of guys that want to use JP as a pull up to orange - yet that comes at the price of a green poison pill. Do you know of any good male orange role models without the green poison? Tony Robbins comes to mind, yet he is getting old and I’m not sure if younger men would resonate with him.

[Focus Shift]

@Serotoninluv What about Jocko Willink? I believe Leo discussed extreme ownership a little bit in one of his videos. 

[Forestluv]

@Focus Shift I’m not familiar with contemporary Orange personal development speakers. The only reason I’m familiar with JP is because he appears a lot on the forum. 

I’d imagine some of Leo’s videos from a few years ago would be good. 

If I were to create a healthy Orange coach to help blue people transition to Orange - I’d just leave out the Green stuff and the coach would focus on personal growth, goal setting, how to achieve personal goals, self motivation etc. - yet in a healthy way, without harming others.

[Emerald]

44 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Emerald I see a lot of guys that want to use JP as a pull up to orange - yet that comes at the price of a green poison pill. Do you know of any good male orange role models without the green poison? Tony Robbins comes to mind, yet he is getting old and I’m not sure if younger men would resonate with him.

The dearth of positive masculine role models is one of the biggest problems I see for young men's development now-a-days.

If a man wants to own his masculinity and be empowered in that way, there's not much healthy material out there readily available. At least, nowhere near as readily available as the toxic and half-toxic masculine role models that are harkening to the juvenile, domineering, and disintegrated masculinity of the past. Namely, the kind that suppresses the feminine at all costs.

But who can blame them? Just like a son with an abusive father (or absent father), they know no other model of masculinity but the shadow side of it. And they come to hold up the shadow masculine as an example of the healthy masculine to be aspire to. Or, half-toxic role models like JP, will mix the healthy and unhealthy masculine... which leads to conflation of the negative with the positive and just thinking masculinity itself is inherently positive with no dark side to it. And this is very dangerous because degeneration will feel like improvement, which is one of the reasons I go so hard at JP.

Now, I'm certain that healthy masculine role models do exist somewhere on the interwebs. But by and large, you'll find regressive masculine role models that men can actually feel the sense of masculine empowerment that they're looking for. Then, you have other guys that are healthy but not as masculine (or sometimes not healthy and suppressing their masculinity), and men who want masculine empowerment are put off by them because they don't embody the masculine archetype enough to stir their interests and needs.

Also, most men already have a script in their mind about what masculinity entails. So, many men may miss positive examples of the masculinity by conflating them with femininity because their definition of the what constitutes masculinity has been corrupted... with very high social stakes applied to men who deviate from the masculine. 

That, compounded with the fact that most men just want to be masculine because they put far too much stock in women's opinions of them, it's just the witches brew for disaster.

Because these men will flock to the toxic and half-toxic role models and become angry and resentful to the women they previously felt powerless to. And they tend to stay stuck in Orange thinking if they make it there.

I agree with what Leftist Youtuber Natalie Wynn said about this at the end of her most recent video, in terms of men needing to create a new model of manhood and masculinity.

It's a great video to watch... She's also trans-gendered, so she's lived both the male experience and the female experience, and has lots of great first-hand insights on gender.

 

[Leo Gura]

Incels are missing one very important thing:

Leave your man-cave and go talk to girls.

Everything else is bullshit and will not get you laid.

[crab12]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Incels are missing one very important thing:

Leave your man-cave and go talk to girls.

Everything else is bullshit and will not get you laid.

That's true. But it's like to saying to an alcoholic "just stop drinking LOL :^)".

Alcoholics Anonymous came up with the incredibly effective 12 step program to help overcome alcoholism because they realized it's not possible to break the cycle without growing as a person / without acquiring the correct mindsets. This is kinda how you have to approach these guys too.

14 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Emerald I see a lot of guys that want to use JP as a pull up to orange - yet that comes at the price of a green poison pill.

I say just give the guys what they need and actually helps them. Orange hates green regardless. And they'll eventually grow out of it end evolve further if they are not hindered. Green phase is silly and naive and you eventually grow out of it too. There's no reason to try to protect green.

14 hours ago, Focus Shift said:

It is a process to unwire limiting beliefs and it takes a lot of time to adopt a more positive outlook. However it takes action and courage to really put yourself out there and get out of a rut.

Absolutely. They are not taking any action because they think it's impossible. And this is keeping them stuck. Why even try if it's not going to make a dent? Say by some miracle he goes out and approaches 10 girls and all of them reject him rudely (very likely). He'll draw the wrong conclusion and use it to justify he's inaction further. You need the correct mindset to be able to handle failure and emotional struggle.

Edited October 8, 2019 by crab12

[Focus Shift]

@Emerald Thanks for sharing the Contra Points video, interesting take. This is why at the end I emphasize integrating the feminine to become more whole. My intention with creating this video was to expose the world of personal development and spirituality to people who would benefit from it. @crab12 All of the suggestions I gave in the video are things I do on a regular basis and it really helps.  I like your idea of 12 steps for Incels lol. 

[crab12]

Haha the Incel Anonymous. That could work actually..

[ben_pte]

the decent into madness is no joke. go watch the joker movie. it is strangely a very healing movie to those who can relate to him... inceldom is a form of madness... MADNESS

Edited October 8, 2019 by ben_pte

[Focus Shift]

@Leo Gura Absolutely. That's why I included a script and some strategy for how to approach the opposite sex properly. I'd also like to add connection is important too. Without a real connection it just feels like two bodies moving. 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, crab12 said:

That's true. But it's like to saying to an alcoholic "just stop drinking LOL :^)".

Alcoholics Anonymous came up with the incredibly effective 12 step program to help overcome alcoholism because they realized it's not possible to break the cycle without growing as a person / without acquiring the correct mindsets. This is kinda how you have to approach these guys too.

I agree. Every incel should do psychedelics. Just like the founder of AA did to cure himself.

AA for incels is otherwise known as the pickup community. The problem with alcoholics though is that they refuse to go to AA and do what AA teaches them. Incels have built up an entire victim ideology about why they will never be able to get girls and how it's someone else's fault.

So in this sense Actualized.org is AA for incels. Because what incels need most is tools for combating their own toxic epistemology.

This problem is really not much different than the problem of deprogramming terrorists, cult members, and materialist scientists. Each is lost in his own kind of paradigm locked ideology but is in denial about it and keeps himself busy by projecting it out onto the world.

I'll make a video for incels in the future.

[Focus Shift]

@Leo Gura If you made a video on Incels that would be really awesome. It'd be valuable for a lot of people. How did you like the graphics/editing?