Leo do you have your own Neuro feedback machine?

[Mezanti]

How much do those things cost. you've mentioned them for quite a bit and it seems to be beneficial. 

[Smurfinstein]

I'm not Leo (ha!) but just a note that HRV is fun to play around with and really reasonably priced to explore. 

[Mezanti]

@Smurfinstein? hrv?

[Leo Gura]

It costs about $2000 total at the cheapest. The machine is only half the cost. The software, accessories, and training programs are as expensive as the machine.

It's not very accessible to ordinary folks, which I why I don't discuss it much. It has a very steep learning curve. You have to be a tech wiz to learn to use it properly. It took me a couple months of serious work to learn to use it. It works great, but it's very difficult to scale that to the masses.

Psychedelics are much more scalable and will take you deeper.

[electroBeam]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It costs about $2000 total at the cheapest. The machine is only half the cost. The software, accessories, and training programs are as expensive as the machine.

It's not very accessible to ordinary folks, which I why I don't discuss it much. It has a very steep learning curve. You have to be a tech wiz to learn to use it properly. It took me a couple months of serious work to learn to use it. It works great, but it's very difficult to scale that to the masses.

Psychedelics are much more scalable and will take you deeper.

What is valuable about it? What do you use it for? What do you not use it for(compared to Psychedelics)?

[Leo Gura]

It makes meditation about 100x more effective.

[Mezanti]

@Leo Gura after having done so many psychedelics, do you still find use in neurofeedback training? if you don't, I'm happy to be gifted for free you're NFB machine  

[Leo Gura]

35 minutes ago, Mezanti said:

do you still find use in neurofeedback training?

The thing you gotta understand about the training is, it's hard work. It's not easy. It's like going to the gym every day and lifting heavy weights. It's not a magic pill.

35 minutes ago, Mezanti said:

I'm happy to be gifted for free you're NFB machine

Even if I gave it to you, you'd have no idea how to use it.

[Mezanti]

@Leo Gura
you under estimate my tech-savvy ness.  Im really good with tech. 

im kidding about that lol. i don't want to be gifted your machine. 

while im replying to you i might as well say. 

I want actualized.org to be a part of everyones lives, just like it is for me, im donating so that you could grow this jackpot that is actualized.org

 

[archi]

11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It costs about $2000 total at the cheapest. The machine is only half the cost. The software, accessories, and training programs are as expensive as the machine.

It's not very accessible to ordinary folks, which I why I don't discuss it much. It has a very steep learning curve. You have to be a tech wiz to learn to use it properly. It took me a couple months of serious work to learn to use it. It works great, but it's very difficult to scale that to the masses.

Psychedelics are much more scalable and will take you deeper.

I bought muse 2 and I do not see the value in it yet ...  

However,  if you have better skill then go for https://www.emotiv.com/epoc/

It is less then 1000$ and I guess it is going to be cheaper in time as everything pc related.

[Temo]

@Leo Gura Are there any more user-friendly devices you would recommend?

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, archi said:

I bought muse 2 and I do not see the value in it yet ...  

However,  if you have better skill then go for https://www.emotiv.com/epoc/

It is less then 1000$ and I guess it is going to be cheaper in time as everything pc related.

Those devices are a joke. Not quality neurofeedback.

16 minutes ago, Temo said:

@Leo Gura Are there any more user-friendly devices you would recommend?

Psychedelics & Kriya yoga

[Temo]

41 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

56 minutes ago, Temo said:

@Leo Gura Are there any more user-friendly devices you would recommend?

Psychedelics & Kriya yoga

Yeah know that topic and I plan to try shrooms/lsd next year, but I was interested in a more easy to handle tech-gadget to have a feedback on my meditation process.

How did it made meditation 100x more effective for you?

[montecristo]

2 hours ago, Temo said:

Yeah know that topic and I plan to try shrooms/lsd next year, but I was interested in a more easy to handle tech-gadget to have a feedback on my meditation process.

How did it made meditation 100x more effective for you?

@Leo GuraAlso really interested in this topic. How about going to a practitioner, anyone have experience with this? or is it really necessary to have it in your own home to do sessions at will and for extended periods to see those 100x gains.

unfortunately I will need to stay away from psychedelics going forward because doing shrooms gave me a mild case of HPPD (hallucinogen persisting perception disorder), which is profoundly dissapointing to me because nothing else has elicited more growth. This is why i'm VERY interested in the potential of neurofeedback

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, Temo said:

Yeah know that topic and I plan to try shrooms/lsd next year, but I was interested in a more easy to handle tech-gadget to have a feedback on my meditation process.

It's hard to find magic pills in life. Technology usually comes with trade-offs. The trade-off here is time and money.

Quote

How did it made meditation 100x more effective for you?

It shows you what true meditation feels like. Without the machine the mind wanders around far too much and tends to stray from that narrow groove which is true meditation.

The machine experientially guides you into the groove and keeps you there. It is a state of total thoughtlessness. It's very tricky to stay in that state without the machine.

Really, in the future, all meditation will be done with a machine because it's too ineffective otherwise. This is why most meditators don't go far. They are unable to hit that groove even after years of practice. It takes talent to hit that groove. A talent most people lack and don't even know they lack. Most meditators don't even know what this groove is that I'm talking about. But a machine with the right training program and show it to you in 15 minutes.

It will probably take 50-100 years for cheap, powerful, yet user-friendly meditation machines to develop. Right now they don't exist.

[Peo]

What is this thing you guys call Nero feedback machine? What is so great about this machine?

Can someone explain.

[Cocolove]

@Leo Gura which one would you reccomend getting?

[Leo Gura]

45 minutes ago, Cocolove said:

@Leo Gura which one would you reccomend getting?

I'm not going to answer that because once we go down that rabbit hole each answer will spawn 5 more questions. Effective neurofeedback training is too complex to explain here. It would require an entire course.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura What about other biofeedback devices, did you test some of them?

Maybe there exist already a good machine out there or is in developement

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, OBEler said:

Maybe there exist already a good machine out there or is in developement

If it's an easy to use consumer device, it's not going to be good. Those are more like toys, not serious meditation aids.