Meditation: Get "good" at 10 before moving up to 20?

[Smurfinstein]

I'm a relatively practiced meditator (regular practice for 7 years of general MBSR, body scan and metta, times ranging from 5 minutes to 20 or 30 on occasion.) 

On listening to a Leo video about it, I decided to commit to 20 every day and am finding the whole session more difficult ("no duh!") 

Contemplating stepping back to 10 consistently, then 15-- I have the time, so I am more than happy to "sit" for 20, but i find myself doing it in "intervals." Coming back to monkey mind and then saying, "No, no, no-- next 5, do it for real!" Just generally have found that my squirrelyness is awakening, the previous ease is gone. (I know that all this is part of the process.) And, interestingly, it's not like I get to my previous 10 minute practice and then go nuts, it starts from the beginning.

Is it possible that the jump to 20 every day without fail was just a bit much (again, my previous "best times" were 20 or 30- with 30 only being in group settings) Too much of a leap?

I'm happy to continue spending the "time," but I used to find it easy to get into a state of awakened awareness with relatively little squirrely monkey mind up to 10. It's just something about the 20 that makes me go apecrap. (I'm an ultrarunner, so I'm definitely applying that running 10% rule to this experience in the back of my mind.)

Today is day 11 of doing the 20. 

 

 

[Elisabeth]

Is it possible that it a fear / limiting belief ? Like you think that 20 will be way more difficult then 10, so your mind goes nuts? 

I'd observe your expectations and subtle fears when you sit down today. 

[Meditationdude]

@Smurfinstein that’s interesting that you’ve been meditating for 7 years and are have trouble doing 20 min. When I first started I did 5 min and committed to daily practice. By week 6 I was at 30 min and then 45min and so on. It happened organically. This has also been the case for my girlfriend and meditation clients. 
 

It’s also odd that you’re an ultra runner which takes crazy amounts of emotional labor and determination yet you can’t sit for 20min. 
 

Something doesn’t add up. 
 

Can you describe exactly what you do and the environment and setting before you sit for meditation? 

Also can you explain when you’re daily life is like? Career, downtime, routine and bad habits/addictions? 
 

This will help me give you the best advice. 

[Smurfinstein]

Elisabeth- Definitely could just be a mental hurdle/fear of the 20. In which case, I'd err on the side of sticking to the 20 and just power through until it click.

MeditationDude- I mediate first thing on waking-- make myself a tea and then sit. While I've been regular with the habit, I've been irregular with the modality in that time-- sometimes tracks, sometimes not. I went through a phase where I was doing more hypnosis-style work during that time, and "woke up" one day realizing that time had become "work," not true meditation, so I backed back out to just silent awareness meditation and it was lovely again (but still around that 10 minute range. I wonder if I've just mentally trained myself to that being the range.)

I am a consultant as a career-- tried to do a "pivot" this past year to teaching people to do what I do, so that took me down a path of the kind of "self development" the entrepreneurial circles gravitate towards (aka: not really so much meditation at all, but more meditation applied to the change of mindset-- that's when I pivoted back to just silent or MBRS, which is what the lion's share of my time has been spent doing.) Addictions/Bad Habits: I recently turned the corner on an overdrinking habit that's been following me for most of my adult life (though when I spell it out, most garden-variety sloshy executives just laugh-- but it was too much FOR ME)-- SO grateful it seems to have finally clicked in that! Bad habits: I'd say worry is my worst bad habit, being an "entrepreneur" introduces all those fears of being totally solo if things don't go as planned, impostor syndrome and all of that-- though, again, I think a lot of "entrepreneurial" space is a load of horsepoop- I'm an entrepreneur because I made the life choice to leave San Francsico and move to the mountains two years ago, so "entrepreneur" is my business form by necessity vs as a lifestyle choice. My lifestyle choice is to do what i need to to pay the bills and provide a life for my kids, and then spend time in nature, running, self-exploration. I'm not trying to be a two-comma, passive-income guru. I have two young kids. In the middle of a divorce. So, I guess I have "a lot going on" on the surface, but I do also integrate mindful moments throughout my day (5 minutes silent sitting when I sit down to my desk every morning and before I close the laptop every evening, etc.) and feel present and grounded throughout the day. I feel it's possible that I've just trained myself at that 5-10 minutes range and there's a mental hurdle getting past it. Using the running analogy-- a 50K is no more difficult than a road marathon (and way more fun!), but people have a mental level added to it. The hardest race to run for me (and one I've only run well once) is actually a 10K, but relatively untrained people "do" those all the time-- so, yeah, that's all mental.  If it's just a mental hurdle, I'll stick with the 20. There is also a voice that my time might be better spent elsewhere (I "know" this isn't true, but the thought does creep in-- should I be learning something else, reading a book, etc. Doing vs being. Perhaps too much focus on outcomes again?) My morning routine is all self-development stuff until my kids wake up, so it's not like I transition from meditation to washing dishes or something. The time is still applied in a similar pursuit... Anyhow, sorry for the wall of text, but-- yeah. Any insight appreciated! 

[peanutspathtotruth]

@Smurfinstein I'd recommend as an "experiment" to try 30 or even 60 minutes. Do that a couple of times and 30 will feel like 5. I went from 1 hour to 2 and it was one of the best things I could do. It was challenging but sometimes you gotta commit to see why you're struggling. 

[Meditationdude]

@Smurfinstein Is meditation enjoyable to you?

It may be that you’re not giving yourself enough time to progress through the stages of meditation. If you’re getting distracted by trying to focus, concentrate or watch phenomena that’s a sign. Are you aware of all the sensations in your body, the electric hum and vibrations? 
 

In my own personal practice it takes 20-25 min before the magic happens but the ramp up to that is extremely enjoyable as well. 

[ttom]

13 hours ago, Smurfinstein said:

There is also a voice that my time might be better spent elsewhere (I "know" this isn't true, but the thought does creep in-- should I be learning something else, reading a book, etc. Doing vs being. Perhaps too much focus on outcomes again?) My morning routine is all self-development stuff until my kids wake up, so it's not like I transition from meditation to washing dishes or something. The time is still applied in a similar pursuit... Anyhow, sorry for the wall of text, but-- yeah. Any insight appreciated! 

@Smurfinstein This part sticks out to me.

I had a "meditation practice"' for a few years and got nowhere with it. During this period I had meditation lumped in with all my other self development practices and sitting to practice required effort. Eventually I experienced a shift that lead to effortless meditation and rapid progress. From what I observed, this was primarily a perceptual shift. I realised meditation was not a tool for development. It was a tool for letting go of everything. Most people know this, but they unconsciously continue to use meditation for ego driven purposes. Once you are ready to surrender. The very act of surrendering will lead you to effective meditation. However, if you meditate with desire, then you are using meditation to reinforce the very thing that meditation exists to overcome.

Imagine you had a basket full of fruit and each time you ate a fruit you felt full but soon became hungry again. One day, someone gives you a fruit that will cure your hunger forever as long as you watch it but don't eat it. It looks exactly the same as all your other fruit so you put it in the basket but remind yourself not to eat. Unfortunately, because you're so accustom to eating your fruit from the basket, you eventually eat this one too without realizing.

To summarize: I feel your practice could transform by re-framing your beliefs. Rather than focusing on time and effort like you would with all you traditional self development concepts. Put your meditation in a new category. Meditation is the tool that helps you to see that all your other practices are illusions. The tool that points to your life as nothing more than a story. Don't turn meditation into a new story.

Goodluck

Edited October 3, 2019 by ttom

[Smurfinstein]

@ttom That makes a lot of sense to me, thank you!

Interesting thing- after making this post, it got "easier." As if saying the thing released a lot of the thing, or by talking it through I saw some of my own flawed thinking better. 

I feel like my 5's and 10's were still "better" than my 20's are (judging mind), but since it's "out there," it's not hanging me up as much.

[enderx7]

8 hours ago, Smurfinstein said:

I feel like my 5's and 10's were still "better" than my 20's are (judging mind), but since it's "out there," it's not hanging me up as much.

better is the key word here, better at what? Think of every time you catch your monkey mind and return to the breath like its one repetition of a physical exercise like a squat or curl. Now see how ridiculous the judging attitude would be if you took that stance while doing squats at the gym, at the end of every squat you mentally yell at your self for not have god-like legs yet. Yet this basically whats happening in your meditation, every time you successfully do a rep of mindfulness (becoming aware of something arising and going back to breath) you judge yourself for not already having buddha level mindfulness.... well of course not lol thats why we meditate. This is super common for westerners who start meditation because of our faulty assumptions about the mind, I was the same exact way until someone pointed this out to me.

Also take into consideration pavlovs dog and understand that is exactly how your mind works, treat it like you would treat someone else your trying to teach. When teaching another if you get mad everytime they do what you want (become aware of distraction and back to breath) well obviously they aren't going to want to do more of that and they also will quickly come to dislike the time they are spending with you and your never gonna get more then 5 miniutes of training out of them. strong hint towards why after 7 years you still dislike doing it. Same works in reverse too though if you positively reinforce the action with encouragement and love it will become rewarding and they will want to spend more time with you in a positive version of a viscous cycle. Every time you catch yourself distracted and come back to the breath instead of being annoyed try to give your self a little pat on the back, like try and actually FEEL it like a internal self hug, this will make your mind happy and it will want catch itself from distraction quicker and quicker until you start seeing distraction before they actually distract you, and you will enjoy the process of meditation progressively more and more until eventually given the opportunity you would just do it all day like a monk (according to monks at least, I'm definitely not there yet either but it is trending that direction)

If you want to get deeper into meditation I highly recommend buying  The Mind Illuminated its basically  the bible of zen style breath meditation     

[Smurfinstein]

Thank you, @enderx7- I use the "rep" example often when talking with others about meditation, and I absolutely know it to be true. "why after 7 years you still dislike doing it"- To be clear, I don't at all dislike doing it! It is an integral part of my daily practice... I just am exploring more these days the concept of "ease" and "joy," and I find myself, with the 20's, judging mind, "was that in ease?" Right now, the answer is "no." But releasing attachment to that-- "so what? I still accomplished what I 'set out to accomplish'," right? Has made it easier.

I've also spent the weekend deep-diving of concepts of Kriya, and I find doing the movements and breathing exercises and chakra focus before sitting make the sitting more "in ease." Possible that getting up from a sleeping state and moving into meditation within 5 minutes wasn't "priming the pump" enough. 

I appreciate the feedback of everyone- thank you all!