Heartmath Insitute And Heart Based Living

[Isle of View]

Any thoughts on the following presentation?

 

 

What do you do in order to:

• raise your emotional level?
• increase mind/heart coherence?
• be in flow?
• positively influence your environment?

 

Kind regards, 
Chris

[cetus]

@Isle of View I seen a heart coherence monitor a while back. Yes, it sounds interesting.

 

[key]

Meditate every chance you get, not as an event but a habit through every moment you're presented.

it'll do wonders to transform your life in the language they speak, and if you already do that great, keep going. 

[Henri]

Here’s what I think is going on as a fully general explanation of almost all of HeartMath’s research. Their Quick Coherence technique – and various others like it – are basically mishmashes of useful relaxation exercises stolen from various yogas and forms of meditation. Many of these ask you to focus on the heart – although many others ask you to focus on the tailbone, or genitalia, or third eye, or crown chakra – and all of them probably work in some vague way by redirecting your attention onto the body. I have no doubt that these yoga techniques effectively relax you. That changes your balance of parasympathetic versus sympathetic tone, which in turn affects your heart rate variability – which as we saw before, tracks parasympathetic and sympathetic tone. Since you’re more relaxed, you do better at various cognitive tasks, which HeartMath then records and claims is evidence of an effect from heart “coherence”. This explains about 80% of the Institute’s findings.                  

 by Scott Alexander

http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/17/heartmath-considered-incoherent/

 

It`s just another example of the so called Western Human Psychological Development sector, mostly US based, who rob ancient techniques, label it with different names and start making lots of money with it. Ignorant criminals selling `love`. It`s a joke.

[cetus]

@Henri That's the new world we live in. I can see a day when someone can go to a institute and have a brain wave monitor placed on their head and what would normally take decades and thousands of hours of meditation to achieve could be accomplished in a couple of short sessions.

48 minutes ago, Henri said:

It`s just another example of the so called Western Human Psychological Development sector, mostly US based, who rob ancient techniques, label it with different names and start making lots of money with it. Ignorant criminals selling `love`. It`s a joke.

 

[Isle of View]

@cetus56

Thank you. This was very informative. 

You used the EM Wave2. What have been your impressions?

 

@Henri

Yes, there are many practices which concentrate on the heart and of course the practices are mishmashes of older practices from other traditions.

I am not aware if their only intention is to make money. Or if they only sell the EM Wave2 and similar products to measure the HRV (Heart Rate Variability). 

But generally selling products and/or seminars, coaching etc. is common practice, also for representatives of traditional practices. So it shouldn't be the issue.

I read what the guy from your link had to say, but as he himself says:

Quote

Because their field of interest is heart electrophysiology, something I know almost nothing about, I’m not going to be able to do a good job debunking specific claims or responding to the science.

But I agree that the term "coherence" of mind and brain may be a little bit far fetched.

However, the EM Wave 2 measures the Heart Rate Variability and from my own sensations, while practicing any of the many spiritual processes I use, I know that there is a connection between the HRV, a feeling of coherence and a higher emotional level.

 

Generally, don't you think they do a very good job to promote higher values like appreciation, gratitude, love?

Whatever they charge (financially). (Still better than more Mc Donald's "Restaurants").

 

Kind regards, 
Chris

[Henri]

@cetus56  Haha, no mate, that`s not going to happen. The finest spiritual vibrations cannot be manipulated by gross materialistic stuff.

Taking the yogic philosophy as a base, it is total nonsense. 

 

[Henri]

6 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

Generally, don't you think they do a very good job to promote higher values like appreciation, gratitude, love?

Hi Chris, off course one can argue about that.

To me it sounds like a disguise, using all those words. When you check the info on the web you`ll see it`s all based in a very materialistic way. It`s all presented like the guy found out something new and that all of it is scientifically proven (scientifically is materialistic) in a laboratory. Common, that`s the old school... It`s a good example of the phrase; beware of false prophets. Besides when you look at the charges they count, it`s legal fraud. 

So generally the biggest problem I have with those initiatives are there intentions. Yeah, I questioning them, they are wrong. 

[cetus]

2 minutes ago, Isle of View said:

You used the EM Wave2. What have been your impressions?

No I haven't but I would love to try it sometime. I used to have an alpha-theta b-w monitor. It had an audible signal and you could really hone in and fine tune into b-w activity . It took the guess work out of meditation because I could get direct feedback on where I was at and focus on staying at that point.  If the mind would drift that was also shown as soon as it started to happen because the signal would fall off instantly and I would catch myself before I got too far off track. Once I found where I liked to be, I could get back to that after a while without using it because I knew exactly where to go. The problem was that the sensors were not developed as well as they are today and were a real pain to get a strong signal. It had metal sensors and a gel.

[Isle of View]

@Henri Thanks, mate.

Appreciate your input.

I see it a little bit differentyl. I think, because we live in a highly mechanistical/materialistical world, our society will be better reached with a gimmick like this. 

Yes, it measures the physical heart beat. 

But they also clearly state that it is the person that can influence the emotions and structure.

It was different in old school psychology, where people have been just the "victims" of their genes, hormones, environmeltal triggery.

Those guys put the person at cause position, showing him that he is responsible and in charge of his state and well being.

To me it looks like some good progress 

 

9 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

No I haven't but I would love to try it sometime. I used to have an alpha-theta b-w monitor. It had an audible signal and you could really hone in and fine tune into b-w activity . It took the guess work out of meditation because I could get direct feedback on where I was at and focus on staying at that point.  If the mind would drift that was also shown as soon as it started to happen because the signal would fall off instantly and I would catch myself before I got too far off track. Once I found where I liked to be, I could get back to that after a while without using it because I knew exactly where to go. The problem was that the sensors were not developed as well as they are today and were a real pain to get a strong signal. It had metal sensors and a gel.

I see.  I am courious about the EMWave2 myself. 
It doesn't seem too expensive ( <200$ ).

Kind regards, 
Chris

[Henri]

Intentions are generally not questioned in the Western world. To a person who is interested in spirituality though, it is of the highest importance.

Nowadays spirituality is `big business`, a growing market with lots of `innocent` potentially customers. The weirdest stuff is happening around this phenomenon. So far so good. I am interested in the real stuff so I beware of the gold-diggers.

Take for example Leo. This guy`s got nothing to hide. Totally honest, sometimes even brutal honest. He is providing lots of information but in a sincere way. He is most of the time not even charging, only a few bucks for some extra stuff. Next to that it is amazing to see the guy is developing himself all the time and he is able to question himself. Also he is not hiding his sources, he is open about that.

When you take Ken Wilber and his Integral Institute. About the same story as Leo, you can feel the right intentions. Half of his books he has to spend telling about all the sources he uses, that is honesty. And his work is for sure not about making money.

However when you take this Heartmath stuff it is really different. Coming with fancy new words in a fancy kind of philosophy with poor `scientific` explanations.... Where are the sources? Common, this guy did not invent all this... He is cheating, he is stealing, he is a fraud, and why..?

Nothing good can come out of any spiritual initiative when the intentions are not in line with the highest ethical standards. To me that is common sense. May be a good idea anyway to start some kind of topic on this site regarding this?

@Isle of View Regards mate!                        Faith is of the mind, love is of the heart and meditation connects both. S.S.R.S. 

                                                                                            

Edited May 20, 2016 by Henri

[cetus]

@Henri Well that's too bad. Let me tell you where I'm coming from. I have a friend that is dying with cancer. The doctors didn't give him much time. He is just a regular guy that got the devastating news that his life will be ending very soon. Imagine for a moment that something that was safe and controlled like bio-feedback could bring a sense of peace and bliss to his life and would show him that no matter what happens, it is going to be all right. If he could experience what long term meditators experience in his short time he has, that would be a blessing. I wish everyday that he could experience the peace and bliss that there is something beyond what we normally experience as a personal self. As of now that can only be done through administering drugs.

1 hour ago, Henri said:

@cetus56  Haha, no mate, that`s not going to happen. The finest spiritual vibrations cannot be manipulated by gross materialistic stuff.

Taking the yogic philosophy as a base, it is total nonsense. 

 

 

[Isle of View]

9 minutes ago, Henri said:

Nowadays spirituality is `big business`, a growing market with lots of `innocent` potentially customers. The weirdest stuff is happening around this phenomenon. So far so good. I am interested in the real stuff so I beware of the gold-diggers.

Agree, Henri.

Another factor is, one shouldn't be dependent on a device in order to know his current state of coherence. But truth is, people in general are totally detached from all spirituality. But there is a connection between physicality and spirituality and I think it's OK to use biofeedback devices in a beginning stage, of course if they are accurate. Therefore I would like to test one of their devices.

As to sources: I don't know. I don't think they're hiding too much. Spirituality is evolving. Why is the Roman Catholic Church hiding tons of books in their vaults? Or why was the Library of Alexandria burned down? Too many links that acknowledged that Jesus was a student of Dharma Yoga? :-)

Sometimes also not the sources are important but the simple fact? Like the fact that when you concentrate on your heart and think about gratitude or appreciation, your emotions and many other beneficial effects will be the result.

The emWave2 only mesures the HRV and displays an interpretation of the reading. It can be very helpful for people who are not able yet to monitor their vibrational (emotional) state without outside validation.

It's sure that they won't be able, and I don't even think that that's their purpose, to bring people really up to higher states like the ones that can be reached through genuine spiritual practice.

Also I didn't check all their Research done by 3rd parties:
https://www.heartmath.org/research/research-library/

I can't tell whether or not they have "bad" or unethical intentions or are totally unscientific. Science is flawed anyway when it comes to human potential.

Kind regards, 
Chris

 

[Henri]

@cetus56 I understand your point very well mate.

There is a story from a famous guy, brother of a king, who was diagnosed with cancer also. He tried all kinds of therapy, the world across. Finally he ended up with Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and his Art of Living. Sri Sri sended him a teacher to learn him the Sudarshan Kriya. The guy did not heal from the cancer but he died with a smile on his face. Before his death he took care of a lot of things to make this technique widely known among his compatriots and his family members. Because of privacy I am not allowed to tell the details, but I think you`ll get my point mate. Kind regards.

 

[cetus]

@Isle of View I just pulled the trigger on the emWave. My girlfriends daughter has an ill regular heart rhythm and sometimes has to wear a heart monitor. I have been suggesting meditation to her for a while but she doesn't do it. She is stressed right now because she is starting a new job that is very demanding at a hospital.  Maybe she will find it of use in her busy schedule. You have the emWave?

[Isle of View]

31 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

You have the emWave?

No, I don't.

I consider buying a set of emWave2 + the emWave Pro.

The video you posted before was very nice. I liked the lady and the way she talked about the product.

I am not interested much in the other services they offer, but their bio feedback device is interesting to me.

8 hours ago, cetus56 said:

 

 

 

~Chris

[Isle of View]

@Henri,@cetus56

 

Two days of further study, some talks with others and contemplation bring me to the following conclusions:

The HeartMath Institute claims the device measures the heart/brain coherence, while what it actually measures is the HRV.

They are using too much mumbo jumbo in their promotion, their prices for seminars, coaching and extended programs are too high.

Their techniques can in best case bring some relief, but they won't handle the real roots of the spiritual strife of the people who use the techniques in the way they're presented.

The device may be interesting, BUT what should be taken into consideration is that it ONLY reads the physical effects of the persons creation, and that it is us, spiritual presences, who produce the impact on the physical body and our environment. 

On 20.5.2016 at 5:57 PM, cetus56 said:

@Henri Well that's too bad. Let me tell you where I'm coming from. I have a friend that is dying with cancer. The doctors didn't give him much time. He is just a regular guy that got the devastating news that his life will be ending very soon. Imagine for a moment that something that was safe and controlled like bio-feedback could bring a sense of peace and bliss to his life and would show him that no matter what happens, it is going to be all right. If he could experience what long term meditators experience in his short time he has, that would be a blessing. I wish everyday that he could experience the peace and bliss that there is something beyond what we normally experience as a personal self. As of now that can only be done through administering drugs.

(bold emphasis by @Isle of View)

@cetus56 I am sorry for your loss.
But a device like this is not really something that can bring solace or a sense of freedom to a person who is facing death. The only thing that really helps is a founded spiritual deepness you work towards while you are alive. The device and some new-agey technique will not give him (or anyone) the real understanding of his spiritual nature. 

The device will not help you in short-time to experience the peace and bliss you can achieve when you have a really founded, long term meditation experience (or any other spiritual insight for that matter). It's only a device, measuring your heart rate. Like a thermometer reads the temperature of the body.

Thank you all who participated in this thread. All that glitters is not gold.

Chris

[cetus]

@Isle of View I bought the emWave for my girlfriends daughter who is always quite stressed and also suffers from an irregular heart rhythm. I tried to get her to meditate, but she doesn't. As of now she pets her cat as a means to reduce stress in her life. Hopefully she will find the emWave useful because of it's ease of use, visual display and portability.  It's better than nothing I figure. I was reading more about it yesterday and a lot of athletes do HRV training for optimal performance. They call it "getting into the zone". My daughter's fiancé works out a lot too. I'll let him check it out also. As far as my friend John with the cancer. The bio-feedback I was referring to for terminally ill people would be a long way off into the future if ever. As of now all there is, is research with medicine like LSD to show terminally ill people something other than a self exists. (See the bottom vid.)

 

[Isle of View]

@cetus56

Thanks.

I will look the videos later.

Stay away from drugs and psychedelics. It's only more delusion.

Kind regards, 
Chris

 

 

[cetus]

1 hour ago, Isle of View said:

Stay away from drugs and psychedelics. It's only more delusion.

!@Isle of View Tell this to the terminally ill woman and NYU. I was actually going to show this video to my friend.  You suggest I don't? As for me, I have no intention of doing drugs. I'm fine already and good to go when my time comes! But thanks for your concern. "Sorry for your loss"?  A bit premature for condolences.

Edited May 22, 2016 by cetus56