Ego is superior in some things

[zeroISinfinity]

If man is rapi g your daughter Will you allow it?It is maya it is illusion or you Will beat crap out of him? 

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

If man is rapi g your daughter Will you allow it?It is maya it is illusion or you Will beat crap out of him? 

What does that matter? Everything I will do will be Maya, saying "It is all maya and illusion" is Maya, beating the crap out of him is Maya. There is no difference.

I will not do anything, there will however be "beating the crap out of him".

 

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, Scholar said:

But that is only one aspect of the dream. Why only focus on the suffering part?

Because the question was about how to reconcile ego vs truth/beauty.

I did not say that devilry is the only thing there is. I simply offered a reconciliation of evil & Truth.

[zeroISinfinity]

@Scholar So you Will allow?

OK Just some clarifications, for YOU to not fall in Observer/Movie type of duality. 

Awareness is not passive Observer Life is not a Movie that plays out. 

It's Being. You actually are that "body of yours" you actually are that man rapi g your daughter and daughter. So you Will Just stand there like a plant Observing movie? 

[zeroISinfinity]

@Scholar Everything is Perfect as it is. Yes but your action if it comes from Heart space is Perfect too. 

mind is Brown Bearish indoctrinated but Heart What about it. 

What Will Heart decide? 

[Angelite]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because the question was about how to reconcile ego vs truth/beauty.

I did not say that devilry is the only thing there is. I simply offered a reconciliation of evil & Truth.

Because you're trying to do something which will never be. Evil & Truth will never be the same. Evil is Evil. Truth is Truth. To distinguish the two is Furqān.

Now I remember a saying by someone who is close to God, when I was inquiring about the sages. He says a sage is a person who was given Furqān. The ability to distinguish between the good & the bad. A Criterion. 

 

[Scholar]

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because the question was how to reconcile ego vs truth/beauty.

But beauty is not in contradiction to suffering. Beauty and suffering are two aspects of Isness.

If we were to frame it like this:

God creates World.

In World there is Suffering.

Suffering creates world which avoids suffering.

 

In a way the nature of suffering is to avoid itself, one might say in Gods eye it is the ultimate tool of avoidance. A magical fascets that seeks to reduce itself. That in itself is utterly magical and impossible, and one might say God created it this way with Wisdom. In World, just the presence of suffering will be the avoiding of suffering. In a way, one might say the celebration of suffering, the true acceptance of suffering, is to avoid suffering. That is the magic, and that is why you would frame it Devilry, why you would oppose it to Beauty, despite there being able to be beauty among suffering and the other way around.

 

What I am trying to point to is that this is all within Worldness, God accepts all of Worldness. So the closer we get to Godness, if we were to frame it as a duality, would we not more and more come to see the utter Wisdom in all aspects of Isness, including suffering? Would we really call it devilry? Could we infact call it anything at all?

Would we not end up creating "Unconsciousness" out of pure love? Would there not be so much love that we would once more be Worldness? To put it in a poetic way, would we not once more fall in Love with Creation and fully Immerse into it, reigniting the "dream"?

Loving Murdering so much that it is not framed as "unconscious" or a lesser form of Love, but so Loving that the Being of the Murdering would just be by itself, "Unconsciousness" being utterly pure and perfect. The Full Circle being that Unconsciousness is the greatest and Deepest State of Consciousness there could possibly be? Or in other words, recognizing that the Isness of all Isness is equal?

15 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

@Scholar So you Will allow?

OK Just some clarifications, for YOU to not fall in Observer/Movie type of duality. 

Awareness is not passive Observer Life is not a Movie that plays out. 

It's Being. You actually are that "body of yours" you actually are that man rapi g your daughter and daughter. So you Will Just stand there like a plant Observing movie? 

I see it differently. There is no "yours", there is no "you" and "me" other than being different aspects of Isness. Possession and identity are Isness, not the other way around.

"I am God" is inherently Isness, but it is as much Isness as anything else. Isness does not belong to anyone, Isness is, and not even that.

 

There is noone to allow anything, there is just Is. The way you just framed it is a very particular way of it Being. Framing it as observing, consciousness, subjectivity. To make it clearer for you, I will not just stand there, I will beat the shit out of the person. That's simply what would happen.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Scholar

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, Scholar said:

What I am trying to point to is that this is all within Worldness, God accepts all of Worldness. So the closer we get to Godness, if we were to frame it as a duality, would we not more and more come to see the utter Wisdom in all aspects of Isness, including suffering? Would we really call it devilry? Could we infact call it anything at all?

Which is why I said devil = God.

Devilry is a relative term. You have to understand what it means in the context I use it in. I use this as a technical term in my overall framework to refer to acts of blind selfishness and deception.

So when I say, "Trump is a devil" I mean a very specific thing.

Reality has a devilish aspect to it. This is the aspect of trickery and illusion. So deny devilry is silly. Yet of course devilry is just an aspect of God in the big picture.

[Scholar]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Which is why I said devil = God.

Devilry is a relative term. You have to understand what it means in the context I use it in. I use this a technical term in my overall framework to refer to acts of blind selfishness and deception.

Yes, but do you also think that blind selfishness and deception are utterly pure and the highest form of Consciousness and being? In a way I am asking you to abandon the framing of "Higher and Lower Consciousness".

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

Yes, but do you also think that blind selfishness and deception are utterly pure and the highest form of Consciousness and being? In a way I am asking you to abandon the framing of "Higher and Lower Consciousness".

All these terms and framings are relative. You can frame reality in a thousand different ways.

Selfishness and deception could be defined as opposites of Consciousness and Being.

Or they could be integrated into a larger unity.

It all depends on how you want to frame things.

We make verbal and conceptual distinctions to do certain intellectual work. Lumping everything into one thing isn't always helpful.

For example, telling someone that Trump is the purest, highest form of consciousness would be highly misleading. It's useful in this case to call Trump a devil.

[Scholar]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

All these terms and framings are relative. You can frame reality in a thousand different ways.

Selfishness and deception could be defined as opposites of Consciousness and Being.

Or they could be integrated into a larger unity.

It all depends on how you want to frame things.

We make verbal and conceptual distinctions to do certain intellectual work.

I understand, but this is not about the framework. It's not about the categories.

Framing it into the larger unity is not quite what I am trying to communicate. What I mean is this:

God greatest act of Love and Consciousness was to completely immerse and accept all Unconsciousness, in such a radical way that it became Unconsciousness. The greatest form of Consciousness, the Highest Wisdom, being the Isness of all of Maya. The Unconsciousness, including all aspects of Isness, being the truest and purest Form of Love.

So Loving that it loves all Frameworks, that it loves how you put Selfishness and Consciousness opposed to each other. So Conscious that Unconsciousness IS that consciousness. Full Circle, the highest form of Consciousness Literally makes you end up BEING the unconscious Devil.

And that Circle relativizes all of Being. To say there is lower or higher consciousness would be like to say one could be further along on the pathway of a Circle. It would all be defined from the point of starting, but the end point would always be the point of starting.

[Leo Gura]

@Scholar Like I said, you can frame it that way, or another way.

There is no argument here.

Every word is a category. How you draw your categories is relative to how you want to frame things.

For example, you used the category Maya. Which is similar to the category of devilry.

[NoSelfSelf]

So basically what i got from the answer is to be as much as a devil as you are a loving being?

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

So basically what i got from the answer is to be as much as a devil as you are a loving being?

Just realize the ego is bullshit and you'll be a happy camper.

You don't need to try to be a devil.

Don't compromise with devilry. You can let it go completely. If you dare.

[Scholar]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Scholar Like I said, you can frame it that way, or another way.

There is no argument here.

Every word is a category. How you draw your categories is relative to how you want to frame things.

For example, you used the category Maya. Which is similar to the category of devilry.

I agree, but I feel like Devilry has things attached to it as much as Maya has.

Devirly has a moralistic component, and Maya has a illusiory component.

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, Scholar said:

I agree, but I feel like Devilry has things attached to it as much as Maya has.

Devirly has a moralistic component, and Maya has a illusiory component.

That is the nature of all words. They all mean things.

The very thing you dislike about the word "devilry" is the very thing I like about it and why I use it. It's provocative. It can be powerful to call a devil a devil to his face.

When I call a viewer a devil, that has a certain affect on their psyche. It punches through the veil. A devil doesn't like being called out.

[Zigzag Idiot]

15 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

For example ego is superior in things where you need to do things in strategic logical order...while its inferior in apreciate and see the beauty in music for example where you need to be present...

How can you merge those together ?

The capacity to hold one's tongue and just feel and observe.

 There is almost always honesty in silence.

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That is the nature of all words. They all mean things.

The very thing you dislike about the word "devilry" is the very thing I like about it and why I use it. It's provocative. It can be powerful to call a devil a devil to his face.

So the usage of the word is more of part of your Self-actualization journey?

[Leo Gura]

Just now, Scholar said:

So the usage of the word is more of part of your Self-actualization journey?

It's a teaching tool and a concept I enjoy.

[NoSelfSelf]

@Leo Gura yeah then that ends everything about being sucessful in outside world like "i want it to be"