Radical Honesty About Self Actualization

[Maycol]

The distinction between enlightened and unenlightened is ego generated, both have equal value and significance.

Working on self-actualization and indulging in devilry also hold the same value, they are no different.

A person who so-called fully realized, liberated, or enlightened, is no different than the person whose interest is in hooker and blow.

Whatever is happening, is already the case. 

The attachment to self-actualization, doing the work, teachings, enlightenment, infinity, is plainly delusional, yet perfectly appropriate. 

It's our own egoic obsession about this made-up story of a hero quest to enlightenment that sustains the survival of this fictional character that's self-generated, BUT it's a beautiful drama that is perfectly unfolding too.

Even if there's not another word written about self-actualization, it's utter perfection, for all there is, is just this one mystery rearranging its own configuration within and without.

There is no need for anything special to happen, yet everything is exactly how it should be.

It's a fun and enjoyable ride nonetheless and all these imaginations and made-up stories are wildly entertaining. 

So thanks for all the fish.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Maycol

[Synchronicity]

Beautiful! Infinite reality is just a spontaneous explosion of things to do and be...

[Forestluv]

@Maycol Some nice insights in there. Thanks. 

4 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

There are big differences.

The enlightened one knows the Truth about Reality and he/she doesn't suffer.

Yes and No. You are creating that difference. You are creating a thing called an "enlightened one" and giving that thing attributes such as "knowing the Truth about Reality" and "doesn't suffer". Nothing wrong with that, yet be aware of what you are doing. You are making it up. Your image of an "enlightened one" may have practical value at the personal level, yet it's also a creation like within a dream. I also use the term "enlightened one" - it has relative value in some contexts. Yet it is relative - both true and false. 

[Maycol]

13 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

There are big differences.

The enlightened one knows the Truth about Reality and he/she doesn't suffer.

There is no difference in "big differences".

"Knowing the Truth about Reality and doesn't suffer" and "remain ignorant and suffer" has the exact same value and significance.

Agree with this or disagree with this are also divinely perfect and equal.

[Shadowraix]

@Mikael89 Language is dualistic so you have to inherently create illusory separation to perceive something you can label an enlightened one. 

You can call it spiritual extremism if you'd like, this work is already radical as it is. Using that as a dismissive tactic is just being dishonest with yourself though. 

Your mind is fabricating so much, sit down and observe its functioning instead of being so rigid about what you think is true. 

 

[DrewNows]

@Mikael89 everything happens for a reason, what will you make of it? We can cling to stories all we want but at the end of the day it's ourselves we must face 

[Truth Addict]

Mikael89 vs. The whole forum.

[Truth Addict]

17 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Those spiritual extremist/brown bear games you people are playing works good when your current life is nice, but as soon as it all goes to hell you will be begging for proper enlightenment. Let's hope that wont happen to you.

Actually, my most ecstatic period of my life was when my life was going to hell. You have no idea how good it is to die.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Selflessness and devilry do have the same value, in the sense there is no universal moral law written that one is better than the other, you aren't saying anything profound here. The important thing is one has a choice to which one they want to play into, after realizing that everything is infinite love and everyone else is also you, one choice is going to give you fulfillment and the other is going to create cognitive dissonance and suffering. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by TrynaBeTurquoise

[Shadowraix]

11 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

@Shadowraix Whatever.

Those spiritual extremist/brown bear games you people are playing works good when your current life is nice, but as soon as it all goes to hell you will be begging for proper enlightenment. Let's hope that wont happen to you.

 

2 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Or when it all goes to hell maybe you will continue with the "everyone is already enlightened. There is no difference between enlightened ones and unenlightened ones"-game and you will look like this and still cry inside: 

In that case I feel sorry for you.

Do more contemplation on what nonduality and by extension nondual consciousness entails. Warning: it includes the very thing you are trying to pick at. By becoming enlightened you would become what you declare extremist. 

[Shadowraix]

@Mikael89 Yes and no.

Be mindful of the nuance of paradoxes and dualistic limitations of language. 

[Rigel]

@Mikael89 What do you expect from these kind of debates?

[Truth Addict]

9 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

one choice is going to give you fulfillment and the other is going to create cognitive dissonance and suffering. 

It's not just black or white. It's a highly nuanced matter. Sometimes, it's most fulfilling to take. Some other times, it's most fulfilling to give. Some other times, it's most fulfilling to step back and just observe.

7 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Okay but I meant suffering without dying.

Okay, but I meant ego-death.

At some point, you will get enough of suffering and say that's it, fuck everything. I want freedom, I want peace. And you will find them.

[bejapuskas]

@Mikael89  You cannot reject the Truth, you cannot run away, it's everywhere. Just look around, the Consciousness around is the Truth. 

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

No I'm not. It's a fact. It's the definition of the word "enlightenment". It's the reason why we are seeking enlightenment.

No. You are viewing it as a universal objective truth - which is it is not.  That idea of enlightenment has practical level at one level - yet it is relative. It is a relative view of enlightenment within a larger Truth. Failure to see this can create an "enlightenment story" that the seeker seeks. It has relative benefits, yet also a source of turmoil. 

The definition you offered is pretty close to how the term "enlightenment" is used on the forum - and that has practical value. Yet we could easily find other definitions of enlightenment. Or we could create others ourselves. That is the nature of relativity. 

[Shadowraix]

22 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

But that doesn't mean there is no distinction between enlightened and unenlightened.

Thought experiment: If there was no life in the universe, who or what would distinguish the distinction between enlightened and unenlightened? How can there be a distinction with no distinguisher?  You have to create a distinction for one to exist. This is what makes it relative. The distinction is a mind game.

We are born in and have mastered the art of dualism for maximum survival, which is exactly why merging dualism in with nondualism is so hard. It takes a radical shift in consciousness to do this. Oneness includes distinction and no distinction. The relative perspective exceeds in the distinction realm, but its superset is no distinction. In this work it is all about deconstructing until you find the highest superset so to speak. Yes, this also means distinction = no distinction. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Maycol said:

The distinction between enlightened and unenlightened is ego generated

No it isn't.

Quote

both have equal value

Value is relative and Truth is beyond value.

I have never made normative claims with this work. You do it because you want to, not because it's higher value or because you should.

[VeganAwake]

@Mikael89 lay on the floor with your eyes closed and die. Cease everything as if you went brain dead.

Do this for an hour everyday for 30 days.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

It's not just black or white. It's a highly nuanced matter. Sometimes, it's most fulfilling to take. Some other times, it's most fulfilling to give. Some other times, it's most fulfilling to step back and just observe.

Okay, but I meant ego-death.

At some point, you will get enough of suffering and say that's it, fuck everything. I want freedom, I want peace. And you will find them.

This is just adding needless abstractions to the big picture intention of pursuing truth and not choosing devilry. Of course its nuanced. 

[Maycol]

When it's seen that enlightenment or self-actualization is another story or game that requires a character to achieve a certain state that's the only rewarded to the exceptional few, you can keep on playing this game of fantastical imagination and sincere hard work but knowing that Existence is unconditional Love that doesn't have a limited human concept of achievement.

A drunk heroin addict killing his own child and Jesus Christ resurrecting the death is both valid and significant in their own ways, and invalid and insignificant in their own ways too. A personal story or perspective always has to come in and assign meaning and value to everything.

Existence, which is the Truth, is never wrong, even if you see it's wrong. That's the radical unconditional nature of Love and Existence. 

Most ego construct won't be able to let go of this attachment because so much has been invested in the drama, but even that is divinely perfect, with all of the human biases, fantasies, and storytelling. 

It's a complete free fall, but the good news is that there's no ground. Keep experiencing the infinite unfolding of the one and only Existence, even the belief that you're going somewhere and getting enlightened is part of the dream, which is perfect.