CONFUSION: JP helpful for moving into yellow?

[Bestyle2209]

Sooo a good friend of mine, who is a perfect example for solid stage green (maybe even including some "unhealthy" extremes) found Jordan Peterson and started to like him more and more as he was grounding here very "floaty" personality and brought rationality into her life and made her aware of the unhealthy extremes of green in herself. I am so confused. Can a mostly stage orange person(JP) make someone else yellow? Or is she regressing into orange? it's so hard to discern.. can you even digress?

[Leo Gura]

Just keep in mind that few people are solidly Green. Many people who lean Green in theory still have huge gaps in their development in practice. They are missing healthy aspects of Blue & Orange, and might have developed Blue and Orange shadows. So in this sense there can be value in learning from quality healthy Blue & Orange sources. This can help round out one's development.

The danger is, if your Blue and Orange sources are impure or dysfunctional (which many of them are), you will tend to adopt their dysfunctions as your own.

If you listen to JP enough you will likely adopt his dysfunctions, confusions, and shadow. He is not a pure source of wisdom. But you can learn from impure sources. You just have to extra careful.

In fact the best way to learn from JP would be to study his impurity. But that is NOT how most people learn from JP.

Studying impurity is an excellent learning technique. Too bad so few people know how to do it. Studying impurity requires being able to discern God from the devil. Which few people know how to do. If you were able to discern God from the devil, you probably wouldn't need to listen to JP.

[Truth Addict]

@Leo Gura

I would say just quite the opposite.

There's no possible way to discern purity from impurity unless you try for yourself, and here open-mindedness is most crucial. I consider that everything I'd already learned could be impure, so I stick with the stuff I find most helpful.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Octafish]

I see what you mean, I had a similar experience around two years ago when I found him interesting and fun as a contrast to my regular greenish ways. I think I spent my fair share of youtube time around Actualized, Alan Watts and Terence McKenna back then, so he was a bit different but with a slight overlap.

I don't know how much I got moved up the spiral though and I got bored with him pretty quickly as I felt there was not much more to learn from him besides a slight gain in appriciation for discipline and just being aware what some people seem to dislike in postmodern neomarxists such as myself.

I think it's perfectly possible to enjoy a JP video or two at stage green and don't really think she is neccesarely growing nor regressing because of it. (But then, who knows, just my personal experience talking.)

[Cocolove]

Isn't Jp at least somewhat yellow in some ways? could your friend be taking the yellow parts of him to move up? I still can't figure out if JP is part yellow and blue orange somehow or just blue orange with what seem like systemic thinking buzzwords and  ideas he hasnt really integrated

[Bestyle2209]

@Leo Gura@Cocolove @Octafish @Truth Addict  Thank you for all your replies.
I get that he is helping her to integrate blue and orange.
The "problem" is that she is absolutely in love with him and is definetly adapting his shadow aspects as well (e.g. she suddenly neglects her intuitive and emotional line of development in decision making, as it is irrational). 
Why is it so hard for people to see the impurities in Jordan Peterson? What makes him special here? I feel like so little people can pin-point his shadow, but almost everyone feels it kind of. Why is he so good in deceiving? 

[Bestyle2209]

And do you have concrete critiques of him (in order to make her aware of them) - why he can be harmful - especially when it comes to his political reasoning - to watch him? The things I found is that he isn't leading to more acceptance and understanding, but more seperation and that he is quite irrational in being against a more "socialistic" democracy. Anything else? Thanks.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Bestyle2209

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, Bestyle2209 said:

Why is it so hard for people to see the impurities in Jordan Peterson? What makes him special here? I feel like so little people can pin-point his shadow, but almost everyone feels it kind of. Why is he so good in deceiving? 

Because people are sheep who do not investigate things for themselves from the ground up.

JP does just deceive others, he deceives himself first and foremost.

The mind is a very tricky beast.

[remember]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Because people are sheep who do not investigate things for themselves from the ground up.

JP does just deceive others, he deceives himself first and foremost.

The mind is a very tricky beast.

would you say you are resilient to that?

[Thewritersunion]

1. To a point

[Leo Gura]

4 hours ago, remember said:

would you say you are resilient to that?

No one is ever immune to self-deception. Doesn't matter how enlightened you are.

[Forestluv]

12 hours ago, Bestyle2209 said:

And do you have concrete critiques of him (in order to make her aware of them) - why he can be harmful - especially when it comes to his political reasoning - to watch him? The things I found is that he isn't leading to more acceptance and understanding, but more seperation and that he is quite irrational in being against a more "socialistic" democracy. Anything else? Thanks.

You list some good examples. I would add that it isn’t just rational and intellectual. Other modes of being appear in Green such as empathy, intuition, emotion and connection. JP has major deficiencies in these areas. 

JP is a clinical psychologist. Another clinical psychologist with dramatic contrast to JP is Gabor Mate. Gabor is green/yellow without blue/orange anchors. He has deeply embodied green. To me, Gabor is the complete contrast to JP and makes his deficiencies totally obvious. 

[Leo Gura]

13 hours ago, Bestyle2209 said:

And do you have concrete critiques of him (in order to make her aware of them) - why he can be harmful - especially when it comes to his political reasoning - to watch him?

We've had MANY discussions on this forum about JP. I've given detailed critiques and what to watch out for. Use the forum search function to find them.

I don't want to rehash it all again.

These JP threads seem to resurface every few months and the arguments start to fly all over again.

P.S. Funny story, I was house shopping this weekend. At one house I met a real estate lady. She asked me what I do. I said I'm a Youtuber. She said, "OH! You know I just discovered this guy on YT I really like." And I thought to myself, "Oh no, here it comes..." And she said, "Do you know this guy Jordan Peterson? I really love his stuff! I just discovered him." I held my tongue and kept on walking. "Yeah... he's somethin...", I said.

[Draven]

That's hilarious 

[Octafish]

19 hours ago, Bestyle2209 said:

And do you have concrete critiques of him (in order to make her aware of them) - why he can be harmful - especially when it comes to his political reasoning - to watch him? The things I found is that he isn't leading to more acceptance and understanding, but more seperation and that he is quite irrational in being against a more "socialistic" democracy. Anything else? Thanks.

There's a lot of stage green critiques of him on youtube from people like Contrapoints, Philosophy Tube, Cuck Philosophy and that whole crowd that you maybe could show her. It's kind of easily digestable critisisms but maybe more to the entertainment side, and comes with the limitation that the creators not really having any good grasp on spirituality. Maybe Angie Speaks' video on him was my favorite because she is seems way more open to the spiritual and Jungian stuff than the rest. (Just speaking from memory here and there was a while since I watched any of them, so check for yourself if there's anything of value there.)

(I'd reccomend avoiding stuff like the Enough Peterson Spam subreddit though because that is just a cesspool of "Self help and Jung is bad, I don't understand why anyone could like either of them")

Or maybe the more effective way would be to find some better alternatives teaching similar things. Gabor Mate is really enjoyable (even though if I remeber it right he's technically a physician and not a psychologist like @serotoninluv said, but then I don't think he would make that separatiom himself ?)  Maybe reccomend her some early Actualized videos. Alan Watts and JP also seems to have some kind of strange way to attract the same people so maybe find some good video by him that she would resonate with. 

Just some thoughts from the top of my head, hope something helps! 

[Bestyle2209]

Guys you are amazing! Thanks for all of your replies.

[loub]

On 10/2/2019 at 3:28 AM, Leo Gura said:

P.S. Funny story, I was house shopping this weekend. At one house I met a real estate lady. She asked me what I do. I said I'm a Youtuber. She said, "OH! You know I just discovered this guy on YT I really like." And I thought to myself, "Oh no, here it comes..." And she said, "Do you know this guy Jordan Peterson? I really love his stuff! I just discovered him." I held my tongue and kept on walking. "Yeah... he's somethin...", I said.

How do you go about relating to other people nowadays? I get that you can't be talking about god or consciousness all the time, but does your spirituality affect your behaviour in ordinary situations? Did that real-estate woman notice something about you?

It probably just reveals me having put you on too much of a pedestal, but this encounter you described struck me as rather... ordinary.

[Leo Gura]

@loub It's all extra ordinary