Is romantic infatuation ok?

[krockerman]

if you treat romantic infatuation as a bonus and not the goal. And your goal is a real realtionship. Is it wrong to feel romantic infatuation?

[Leo Gura]

Nothing is ever wrong. But everything has consequences.

All attachment will bring suffering. Everything that goes up must come down.

But you can't really learn that lesson without living through it. So knock yourself out with romantic infatuation and see where it gets you.

You'd have to be exceptionally wise and spiritually gifted to transcend such things without touching them.

[Truth Addict]

Balance is the hardest thing to achieve. But it is the more rewarding thing as well.

[krockerman]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Nothing is ever wrong. But everything has consequences.

All attachment will bring suffering. Everything that goes up must come down.

But you can't really learn that lesson without living through it. So knock yourself out with romantic infatuation and see where it gets you.

You'd have to be exceptionally wise and spiritually gifted to transcend such things without touching them.

What I meant was many people treat it like the goal. But if I treat it like a bonus and something I know is gonna end. Should I see it as something bad?

[Leo Gura]

5 minutes ago, krockerman said:

Should I see it as something bad?

What Actualized.org teaches you is that you shouldn't see anything as bad.

Or more precisely, realize that "badness" is a projection of your mind. If you think a thing is bad, it becomes bad from your POV.

[krockerman]

@Leo Gura well it's still hedonism. But I don't think you should reject that just because it's hedonism. If it translates to a real relationship after it. If it does then it's I think the honeymoon is a great bonus. 

For a true relationship, it has to end. But it's a fun first part

Edited September 30, 2019 by krockerman

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, krockerman said:

For a true relationship, it has to end.

All relationships end. Most a lot sooner than you imagine.

The reason you relate with people is mostly out of selfishness and to fulfill your survival needs. You ain't doing anything intelligent or sophisticated with your relationships. It's very basic survival stuff. The equivalent of pumping gas in your car.

[Devi Shanti]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

All relationships end. Most a lot sooner than you imagine.

The reason you relate with people is mostly out of selfishness and to fulfill your survival needs. You ain't doing anything intelligent or sophisticated with your relationships. It's very basic survival stuff. The equivalent of pumping gas in your car.

You are talking about yourself, Leo, I'm sorry you had so shallow experiences with relationships. But it's not the truth for everyone. I've seen couples of elders who love each other and it's so beautiful and inspiring. 

Most relationships end, it's true, but exactly because most people have so egotistical motivation to get involved with others. I believe that what comes too easy, usually goes away as easy as it came. Sometimes you have to fight for love and then, when you conquer it, then it's yours, unless you make a real mess.

1 hour ago, Leonora said:

@iGhost

@Leo Gura

And if it is in our nature to seek connection, maybe that is how we truly transcend? Maybe that is the universe guiding us to enlightenment  and a shortcut to fulfillment?

 

That's what I believe. If we can't tolerate one's differences, if we can't give up of our own will for someone when it's necessary, and learn new perspectives and behaving from our partners, then we can't know what love is, and without love, there is no enlightment nor fulfillment. Loving yourself without the hability of loving the one next to you is not love, it's narcissism and self-centereness.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Devi Shanti

[DrewNows]

@Devi Shanti people don’t live forever, that’s all Leo’s trying to say. Impermanence is everywhere and everything. The ego often likes to imagine a relationship last until death do part or maybe even forever but nobody really knows when they will die or that they are actually always and forever alone

@Leonora transcendence is not a matter of appearance, but getting the basic needs met can make it easier to realize the Truth behind it all 

Edited September 30, 2019 by DrewNows

[Emerald]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All relationships end. Most a lot sooner than you imagine.

The reason you relate with people is mostly out of selfishness and to fulfill your survival needs. You ain't doing anything intelligent or sophisticated with your relationships. It's very basic survival stuff. The equivalent of pumping gas in your car.

It always feels to me that you're trying to bypass your humanity with your outlook on relationships, and life in general. And that your bypassing has been defined as a virtue and an achievement in your mind. As something that makes you like the hermit who steals away to a cave, whose archetype you admire and feel safe in. A place where you can always find positive sentiment about yourself and the work you've put in to self-growth.

Just consider, you could have many shadows about this. There could be lost parts of yourself that are still looking for connection and relationship... parts of you that have been labeled wrong or weak. And facing them and embracing them would be where real growth would be found. 

 

 

 

[Space]

3 hours ago, Devi Shanti said:

You are talking about yourself, Leo, I'm sorry you had so shallow experiences with relationships. But it's not the truth for everyone. I've seen couples of elders who love each other and it's so beautiful and inspiring. 

The vast majority of relationships end pretty quickly at some point and rarely last until one or both people die, particularly these days. If you consider all of the relationships ever throughout history, most don't last long. This isn't a bad thing.

Leo is really telling the truth about how most relationships are formed out of selfishness. In fact all relationships are, because everything is done for self-survival. Most, if not all relationships, even the cute elderly couple who have been married for 60 years, are all done out of raw self-survival. Falling in love, in the conventional sense, however deep and authentic it may be, is still self-survival. Why do you fall in love with only a very specific type of person? Self-survival! Saying that, you can of course still have deep loving, long lasting relationship. Don't assume Leo has had shallow relationship experiences simply because he is stating the truth. If anything, recognising the actual self-survival mechanisms behind relationships is more conducive to a significantly more intimate and deep bond with your partner.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Space

[Devi Shanti]

@Space people only talk about the reality they know. Each one has her or his own story to tell about life. I am telling mine, you are telling yours. I just don't think it's uplifting telling people things like they were absolute and from it you could understand there is no hope for true love and durable relationships. There is a world of possibilities where we can choose throw away precious people because they don't wanna have sex with us in the second date, or educating our sensibility to find the bright through the eyes of this person we are with, open our hearts and learn from this person, making this relationship be a way of self improvement and mutual fulfillment.

[Devi Shanti]

Otherwise we would be in a jungle, where everybody and everything is all about primal necessities and the end. Maybe we are. And this explains a lot of the mess mankind is going through. But do we want to be on this stage forever? Sex is easy game, people. We can do much more than just that.

[Deepconcepts]

@Devi Shanti you'd be surprised how simple many things are under the surface. Really, I believe our tendency is to make things more complicated than they seem. If you have any objections to an idea, do some deconstructing.

 

I think everything is ought to be appreciated, or learned to at one point or another. Suffering in my opinion is unavoidable, but changing our perspective on suffering and seeing it from a bigger point of view, instead of isolating and emphasizing one aspect of life... will be more worth the time.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Deepconcepts

[Truth Addict]

Solipsism and relationships can't work together, can they?

[Zigzag Idiot]

9 hours ago, krockerman said:

if you treat romantic infatuation as a bonus and not the goal. And your goal is a real realtionship. Is it wrong to feel romantic infatuation?

No. For me, it in itself is not wrong but something to taste and observe to the fullest. Sometimes it means an encounter with unrequited Love which is said sometimes to open up a radical breaking apart and healing the onesidedness of unrequited love. Possibly the Love which stays repressed to a degree in which finds the door to the outside as a perceptual filter which everything is perceived through Love and the resultant oceanic feeling.

[Devi Shanti]

@Deepconcepts sorry, I didn't get you. What do you mean by things are simple under the surface?

[Deepconcepts]

@Devi Shanti It will be really hard to comprehend. We don't need anything, period. We want... Not need. It's perfectly okay to want, go ahead and want the moon. Doesn't mean you'll have ever lasting happiness. 

Life is pretty simple, don't over complicate it. That's all, go out and enjoy yourself. Enjoy your romance and have a good day.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Deepconcepts

[remember]

@Deepconcepts  is this your thought? it´s not even on the standard of scientiffic research. it`s not even holdable on a survival level. it´s yet another disillusioned solipsistic mindset that doesn`t know what exactly made it so lonely. people want a lot that they confuse for love, and they sometimes confuse for love what it is not, because they want it to be like that. being confused about love doesn`t mean that it is not essential. exactly that mindset makes love extinct from this species. thinking of it like a mechanical tool just shows how disconnected most people are.

it`s making people sick not healthy the mind paradigm.

Edited September 30, 2019 by remember

[arlin]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

All relationships end. Most a lot sooner than you imagine.

The reason you relate with people is mostly out of selfishness and to fulfill your survival needs. You ain't doing anything intelligent or sophisticated with your relationships. It's very basic survival stuff. The equivalent of pumping gas in your car.

What's whrong with selfishness and survival needs? Isn't that the reason we all are here to begin with? 

Everybody has needs and some of them can be met through other people. It is perfectly natural. I don't think its selfish. That word gives negative meaning. Is a baby selfish for crying because he wants to be nurtured? See, this is perfectly normal. I think our needs must be valued the same even if we are adults. 

If we don't accept and fully embrace our human side how can we hope to transend it one day? 

Why deny yourself of such a gift only because you want to avoid suffering? Which by the way by doing that you get cought in your ego, there is nothing spiritual about that. 

Maybe it would be more spiritual to follow your emotions and to live those moments with who you love.

I think spiritual to me is also fully accepting your limitations as a human. 

I will become god when the game is over.