Trump Impeachment

[samedm9]

Does anyone seriously believe that there is any indication of a high crime in the whistleblowers release, followed by the official WH transcript of the call, that would warrant an impeachment on Trump. 

Also Adam Schiffs false recollection of the transcript in Congress, seems to be pure misguidance of truth. You can’t tell me that he’s being honest.

Also, no mention of Joe Biden’s ties to Ukraine in that hearing. The only mention of joe was in relation to the fact that he is a political opponent of trump.

In summary, why would it be considered a “wrong doing” to investigate Joe Biden and his son if they are involved in corruption. Even if Biden is a political opponent (he has no chance so he’s not really an “opponent”) Isn’t it the duty of the president to “investigate” corruption. How is this seen as election meddling?

If Biden is the democratic nominee, just wait until he has to debate trump and all of his disgusting touching and sniffing, of woman and children gets exposed. Good fucking luck.

Edited September 29, 2019 by samedm9

[Emerald]

Well, yes. It is illegal for the president to try to dig up dirt on their political opponent with the aid of a foreign government. So, in black and white terms, yes... it is an impeachable offense. There's no real wiggle room there, especially since he admitted to it.

But also, I think that most average people will focus, not toward Trump soliciting information from foreign governments, but instead toward the very real corruption the Bidens were involved in.

It's kind of like if a person was illegally stalking another person. And then they found out through stalking that the other person had a bunch of bodies in their basement.

Sure. It's illegal to stalk people, and that doesn't change just because the person found something incriminating about the other person. But the stalking wouldn't even be the primary focus of the average voter hearing the story. It would be the bodies in the basement.

So, the DNC has really screwed themselves on this. And it will honestly probably help Trump in the 2020 election, unfortunately.

But even so, it's an impeachable offense. And that's very clear cut. It violates the law. And because of the rule of law, Trump should have to face with impeachment proceedings. No one is above the law.

That said, the impeachment will probably either die in the house. Or if not the house, the senate for sure. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by Emerald

[Leo Gura]

Oh, it's gonna get a lot worse. This is only the tip of the iceberg of Trump's criminality.

If the public only knew how much criminal stuff Trump has done, they would come for him with pitchforks.

Trump has been skating on thin ice for years now and he's about to fall through.

[whoareyou]

38 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh, it's gonna get a lot worse. This is only the tip of the iceberg of Trump's criminality.

If the public only knew how much criminal stuff Trump has done, they would come for him with pitchforks.

Trump has been skating on thin ice for years now and he's about to fall through.

Have you considered that besides Trump, there are a lot of other people who have committed crimes in the government? Including some of the candidates running for the next presidential election? What about the crimes that the past presidents have committed? 

If Biden is indeed corrupt, he should be investigated, regardless if Trump has committed crimes or not

Edited September 29, 2019 by whoareyou

[samedm9]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh, it's gonna get a lot worse. This is only the tip of the iceberg of Trump's criminality.

If the public only knew how much criminal stuff Trump has done, they would come for him with pitchforks.

Trump has been skating on thin ice for years now and he's about to fall through.

Ok Leo, name some of the “illegal things” trump has done. Please 

In your reply Leo, you have not mentioned or addressed any of your views on: Schiffs fakery in Congress, Biden’s ties to Ukraine(nor his pedophillic behaviour) or the actual case at hand, you know, the thing I am trying to discuss.

You answered nothing, and called trump a criminal with no evidence. Wow. No substance to your reply.

btw do you by any chance follow CNN, MSNBC and the other lying corporate mouthpieces?

[samedm9]

27 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

Have you considered that besides Trump, there are a lot of other people who have committed crimes in the government? Including some of the candidates running for the next presidential election? What about the crimes that the past presidents have committed? 

If Biden is indeed corrupt, he should be investigated, regardless if Trump has committed crimes or not

Thanks for being aware instead of reverting to “orange man bad”

[samedm9]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

Well, yes. It is illegal for the president to try to dig up dirt on their political opponent with the aid of a foreign government. So, in black and white terms, yes... it is an impeachable offense. There's no real wiggle room there, especially since he admitted to it.

But also, I think that most average people will focus, not toward Trump soliciting information from foreign governments, but instead toward the very real corruption the Bidens were involved in.

It's kind of like if a person was illegally stalking another person. And then they found out through stalking that the other person had a bunch of bodies in their basement.

Sure. It's illegal to stalk people, and that doesn't change just because the person found something incriminating about the other person. But the stalking wouldn't even be the primary focus of the average voter hearing the story. It would be the bodies in the basement.

So, the DNC has really screwed themselves on this. And it will honestly probably help Trump in the 2020 election, unfortunately.

But even so, it's an impeachable offense. And that's very clear cut. It violates the law. And because of the rule of law, Trump should have to face with impeachment proceedings. No one is above the law.

That said, the impeachment will probably either die in the house. Or if not the house, the senate for sure. 

How is asking Ukraine to investigate potential corruption, involving a presidential candidate, a bad thing?

If he is indeed corrupt, then should trump just ignore that fact because it hurts joe Biden’s chances?. SO IT SHOULD! 

Your saying that candidates should have total immunity to any “investigation” during their campaign run to avoid the public developing an opinion, SO THEY SHOULD! Are you serious. How would we be able to identify corruption at all then? 

Btw Pedophile Biden was never an opponent to trump. Zero chance of beating him. 

So this idea of digging up dirt on a political opponent is ridiculous as he is NOT an opponent.

[Robi Steel]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Oh, it's gonna get a lot worse. This is only the tip of the iceberg of Trump's criminality.

If the public only knew how much criminal stuff Trump has done, they would come for him with pitchforks.

Trump has been skating on thin ice for years now and he's about to fall through.

Are you still on board with all the leftist media outlets? That have been demonstrated to be corrupt and partisan to the highest degree? Are you still so super sure of whats going on because you got your spiral dynamics conclusions? 

If you're not able to see the relief in trump for the people and if you are clearly not able to see the corruption and complete-ego overload on the left. I dont know if you contemplated this, but conservativism and liberalism have equal value. The left can push too far, then the right has to pull them back. The right can get equally concious in their role. 

The left isnt always better just because they are the ones making progress ahead. Progress ahead can be just as regressive and destructive. 

How about something else than "orange man bad"

Edited September 29, 2019 by Robi Steel

[Robi Steel]

 

[Bas]

@Robi Steel Dude you really need to widen your scope of news sources, you only post these Timcast videos!;)

Btw: Msnbc isn't left, it's pro-democrat. Most of democrats aren't left, they just think they have a higher moral superiority over the conservatives. This gets right-wingers super triggered, because most democrats are of course (almost) as corrupt and criminal as most conservatives.

These elections are already one big soap hahah

[Emerald]

42 minutes ago, samedm9 said:

How is asking Ukraine to investigate potential corruption, involving a presidential candidate, a bad thing?

If he is indeed corrupt, then should trump just ignore that fact because it hurts joe Biden’s chances?. SO IT SHOULD! 

Your saying that candidates should have total immunity to any “investigation” during their campaign run to avoid the public developing an opinion, SO THEY SHOULD! Are you serious. How would we be able to identify corruption at all then? 

Btw Pedophile Biden was never an opponent to trump. Zero chance of beating him. 

So this idea of digging up dirt on a political opponent is ridiculous as he is NOT an opponent.

You're getting a little emotional here, and you're projecting things I didn't say.

What I'm saying is that what Trump did was illegal and impeachable to the letter of the law. And he's not above the law. That's all.

It's the same reason why it would still be illegal for a person to be a vigilante, and go enact punishment on someone else for their wrong-doing. You would still be arrested for that, even if the person got what was coming to them. 

Also, he could find that information out some other way that's legal and it would be non-impeachable. And I would be fine with it. And truly, I honestly don't care where he got the information, nor do I think most people would. I'm glad the dirt on Biden is coming to the surface.

But the law is the law... and he Trump is not above it.

It's important that the Bidens be called out on their corruption though. 

Also, I'm pretty sure that you're right that Biden has zero chance of beating Trump. He's a corrupt corporatist neo-liberal shill that runs his campaigns on platitudes and is incredibly gaffe-prone and handsy with minors. His cognitive ability is also slipping, and he has a checkered past with racism. And once his voter-base catches wise to these things, they will rescind their support from him quickly. Mostly he's skating off of the name recognition of being Obama's VP, and the average person (who's not politically informed) falsely associating him with progress.

And of course, Trump will go hard at him using his normal mud-slinging tactics. And if Biden, as he seems to be, is running on being the clean candidate in relation to Trump, then Trump will be able to exploit this weakness easily... as Biden is anything but clean.

This is why we need an honest candidate with a great record and solid policy proposals like Bernie Sanders running against Trump. Trump will attempt his mudslinging and calling him "Crazy Bernie" or whatever. And Bernie will just keep bringing it back to policy substance and calling Trump out on his fake populism.

But all the same, that doesn't mean Biden is not Trump's opponent. He is. And it is illegal for the president to enlist the help of foreign governments to dig up dirt on political opponents. And there is no other way to interpret what he did.

 

 

[DoubleYou]

48 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

Are you still on board with all the leftist media outlets? That have been demonstrated to be corrupt and partisan to the highest degree? Are you still so super sure of whats going on because you got your spiral dynamics conclusions? 

If you're not able to see the relief in trump for the people and if you are clearly not able to see the corruption and complete-ego overload on the left. I dont know if you contemplated this, but conservativism and liberalism have equal value. The left can push too far, then the right has to pull them back. The right can get equally concious in their role. 

The left isnt always better just because they are the ones making progress ahead. Progress ahead can be just as regressive and destructive. 

How about something else than "orange man bad"

Yes, in theory that is correct. But it's exactly other way around. As it stands right now, the US is an extremely, and I mean extremely conservative country compared to the rest of the modern western world. What you call ego overload in the left is something that is to be expected when any kind of progression is held back this much for years and years and years. It's simply anger. Anger that nothing is ever being done.
 

Edited September 29, 2019 by DoubleYou

[Emerald]

51 minutes ago, Robi Steel said:

Are you still on board with all the leftist media outlets? That have been demonstrated to be corrupt and partisan to the highest degree? Are you still so super sure of whats going on because you got your spiral dynamics conclusions? 

If you're not able to see the relief in trump for the people and if you are clearly not able to see the corruption and complete-ego overload on the left. I dont know if you contemplated this, but conservativism and liberalism have equal value. The left can push too far, then the right has to pull them back. The right can get equally concious in their role. 

The left isnt always better just because they are the ones making progress ahead. Progress ahead can be just as regressive and destructive. 

How about something else than "orange man bad"

Indeed you're correct that many people who voted for Trump did so because the Democrats (party of the people) weren't actually doing the bidding of the people... but instead doing the bidding of their corporate donors in the same way as the right. And of course, the media (left and right) is bought off by the same corporations and lobbyists.

So, when Trump came in as an outsider candidate and saying he would "drain the swamp" and "Make America Great Again" and "Bring back coal" and all this other stuff... people believed him. And people believed him because they wanted so badly to believe him. And they wanted to so badly that many of them were able to look over his problems... and many liked him because of his problems.

But the fact of the matter is that Trump has not and will not deliver on those promises. It's fake populism. He's just saying what people like, in hopes to get their support. And it worked in 2016 because Hilary Clinton is corrupt and promised only the status quo. So, he lost the popular vote but won the electoral college through appealing to the rust belt's needs through his talking points.

Also, there are NO PROGRESSIVES in the establishment. So, the left-wing media is just as focused toward maintaining the status quo as the right-wing media. The only difference is that the right wing media is reactionary and wants to bring things backward.

So, we don't have conservatives and progressives in establishment government and media we have reactionaries (right-wingers) and conservatives (Neo-Liberal Democrats). And the thing both of these groups have in common is that they're out for their own interests that they derive from corporations. And they will screw over the people and frequently do to line their pockets.

So, given that we have a 98% conservative government that's only 2% progressive, don't you think it's about time we give some time to the progressives. Like you said it can't just be one way, and so far it has been one way in favor of conservatism.

Also, despite his words, Trump isn't doing anything to fundamentally change that. And if you think he is, go ahead and make your claim...

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, samedm9 said:

Ok Leo, name some of the “illegal things” trump has done. Please

If you can't see by now that Trump is a devil, nothing I say can help you.

[samedm9]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you can't see by now that Trump is a devil, nothing I say can help you.

Devil or not. You still haven’t answered anything.

No actual crimes listed. 

Nothing on Schiff. 

Biden.

Lying left-biased media.

And just because someone is a devil, doesn’t mean that that they have done something “criminal”, if we’re speaking in terms of the current consciousness level of the “law”.

How do you know he doesn’t play down his level of understanding/awareness, in order to seem more accessible and “human” to the masses. You simply wouldn’t know.

[samedm9]

1 hour ago, Emerald said:

You're getting a little emotional here, and you're projecting things I didn't say.

What I'm saying is that what Trump did was illegal and impeachable to the letter of the law. And he's not above the law. That's all.

It's the same reason why it would still be illegal for a person to be a vigilante, and go enact punishment on someone else for their wrong-doing. You would still be arrested for that, even if the person got what was coming to them. 

Also, he could find that information out some other way that's legal and it would be non-impeachable. And I would be fine with it. And truly, I honestly don't care where he got the information, nor do I think most people would. I'm glad the dirt on Biden is coming to the surface.

But the law is the law... and he Trump is not above it.

It's important that the Bidens be called out on their corruption though. 

Also, I'm pretty sure that you're right that Biden has zero chance of beating Trump. He's a corrupt corporatist neo-liberal shill that runs his campaigns on platitudes and is incredibly gaffe-prone and handsy with minors. His cognitive ability is also slipping, and he has a checkered past with racism. And once his voter-base catches wise to these things, they will rescind their support from him quickly. Mostly he's skating off of the name recognition of being Obama's VP, and the average person (who's not politically informed) falsely associating him with progress.

And of course, Trump will go hard at him using his normal mud-slinging tactics. And if Biden, as he seems to be, is running on being the clean candidate in relation to Trump, then Trump will be able to exploit this weakness easily... as Biden is anything but clean.

This is why we need an honest candidate with a great record and solid policy proposals like Bernie Sanders running against Trump. Trump will attempt his mudslinging and calling him "Crazy Bernie" or whatever. And Bernie will just keep bringing it back to policy substance and calling Trump out on his fake populism.

But all the same, that doesn't mean Biden is not Trump's opponent. He is. And it is illegal for the president to enlist the help of foreign governments to dig up dirt on political opponents. And there is no other way to interpret what he did.

 

 

Where do you see evidence that Trump “enlisted help” to “dig up dirt” on Biden. 

All that he did was ask, not even demand, that the situation with the Bidens be investigated, looked into. 

If Biden is corrupt, (most certainly) then what is the problem with trump asking that he be investigated? At this point it shouldn’t matter wether he’s running for office, or not. 

Again, should we just “leave the dirt in the ground”, because exposing the corruption would hurt Biden’s chances? And Again, if the dirt is there, So It Should be dug up.

Another point is, there is No indication whatsoever, that the Whitehouse would have made public, any of the potential reported findings of Ukraine’s investigation into the Bidens before the 2020 elections, if at all.  How would it hurt Biden’s campaign considering this?????

[Girzo]

13 minutes ago, samedm9 said:

How do you know he doesn’t play down his level of understanding/awareness, in order to seem more accessible and “human” to the masses. You simply wouldn’t know.

 He isn't.

I don't live in the US, but I remember the scam which Trump University was. This guy has a book signed with his own name which he didn't even read once. You could multiply examples. Typical con-man.

You would like for mistreating migrants and ignoring climate crisis to be somehow a sign of high consciousness but hell no it isn't.

[Girzo]

@samedm9 F*ck Biden, basically no-one on this forum is for him. People there support Bernie, Warren, and Yang, I have noticed.

[samedm9]

4 minutes ago, Girzo said:

 He isn't.

I don't live in the US, but I remember the scam which Trump University was. This guy has a book signed with his own name which he didn't even read once. You could multiply examples. Typical con-man.

You would like for mistreating migrants and ignoring climate crisis to be somehow a sign of high consciousness but hell no it isn't.

His previous business motivated actions in life are clearly not in accordance with his current responsibilities. Don’t be a fool.

Again. You wouldn’t know; have you been to the highest level of the US intelligence pyramid in order to see what knowledge is diluted and trickled down to the masses? Didn’t think so.

What mistreatment of immigrants? Deportation? at the border?

And who said anyone’s ignoring climate issues. Ahhahaha, mate come on. Talk about projection. 

 

[Forestluv]

@samedm9 You are not making the distinction between a crime and justification for that crime. For example, driving at 200km/hr on the highway is against the law. However, breaking the law may be justified in some cases. Perhaps someone in the car is having a heart attack and the driver is speeding to the hospital in an effort to save their life.

Trump broke the law by soliciting foreign aid against a political opponent in an election. That is against the law. It is a crime. The White House knew this was wrong because they hid it on a coded server for the highest classified information that very few people have access to.

You might think this law is stupid or that breaking the law was justified in this situation. That is a separate issue. Trump broke the law and committed a crime. Was he justified in committing the crime? I would say no. I consider Biden’s son on the Ukraine’s board to be unethical, yet it is not illegal. It is the type of generic unethical behavior that is commonplace in politics. There are thousands of instances of unethical behavior occurring in U.S. politics that is legal right now (including in his own administration).  Trump chose to go after his political opponent, which benefits him personally. Trump’s behavior is at a higher unethical level than Biden’s son AND it is illegal. Biden’s son is at a lower unethical level and was legal. You are creating a false equivalency.

1 hour ago, samedm9 said:

All that he did was ask, not even demand, that the situation with the Bidens be investigated, looked into. 

That is a crime in the United States. You may think it is a stupid law or that breaking this law was justified - yet that is a separate issue.

As well, demands via quid pro quo would be a second crime.

Simply “asking” is sufficiently illegal. Yet you are not seeing the context here. It’s not like Trump simply asked for a glass of water. When the mob boss “asks” for a couple favors, it’s more than a simple request. Relative context is important.