Liberation (Thank you, Leo)

[Alex bliss]

Do you have control over your desires and anger??

 

 

Like come on!! This must should be obvious otherwise you are not different than the regular run-of-the-mill person. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by Alex bliss
Leftover sentences

[Koyaanisqatsi]

4 hours ago, Alex bliss said:

Do you have control over your desires and anger??

 

 

Like come on!! This must should be obvious otherwise you are not different than the regular run-of-the-mill person. 

It has been realized that no one has control over anything. That is part of the illusion. There are no entities inside of body/minds 'deciding' or 'controlling' anything. It's all just happening to no one for no reason. This is not about changing anything, or becoming a better person. That too is part of the illusion--that happiness is derived from life showing up a certain way, by people liking me, by doing the 'right' thing. That is a trap. Let go of everything. EVERYTHING. Any ideas about what is are not what is. They are concepts. 

What seems to happen here is that thoughts that stem from being a separate individual don't arise. So anger might appear, but it wouldn't be based on a thought that "this should not be happening" and then when it's gone it's gone. There is no story, no guilt, nothing that cares about it or holds on to it. When it's not what's happening, it's not what's happening. The mind doesn't go looking for answers in time. There is only what is, and it's seen as already perfect, whole, and in balance. It does not seem that way from separation, though.

There are also no "should's" and no "people" to be compared to. Comparison can only happen in separation (you need more than one 'thing' to do comparison). There are no 'things'.

[Blissout]

Do you think it takes something MORE to get rid of any ideas about yourself then by just resting as awareness?

[Leo Gura]

22 hours ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

but of course I can't take any credit for anything.

You can take credit for everything, since you're imagining it all

[Koyaanisqatsi]

11 hours ago, dimitri said:

I have tried guided meditations for the fist time (well, not counting meditations on Vipassana retreat) and quite liked it, thank you.

I have tried so far:
• Kiss the Toad
• Being Aware of Being Aware is the Highest Meditation

Todo:
•  Pouring Emptiness into the Body

So, I basically can google "Rupert Spira guided meditations" and do any of them. But do you want to suggest other teacher for guided meditations, so I have some variety?
 

The only guided meditations I really did (other than some really early simple ones) were Rupert's. I'm sure there are other beautiful ones out there. 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

6 hours ago, Blissout said:

Do you think it takes something MORE to get rid of any ideas about yourself then by just resting as awareness?

It's hard to say. That's all Ramana Maharshi would say. Just hold on to the feeling of "I am." For me, the neti neti process and similar inquiries seemed to help.

[lostmedstudent]

@Koyaanisqatsi thNk you for the post

i am interested to know two questions previously asked but to which you did not answer:

1. did psychedelics help you along your journey?

2. Was there ever fear of death / panic , if so, how did you overcome it ?

thank you so much

[Koyaanisqatsi]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

You can take credit for everything, since you're imagining it all

True, though I also was the one who gave myself credit, so it's a little awkward...

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Just now, lostmedstudent said:

@Koyaanisqatsi thNk you for the post

i am interested to know two questions previously asked but to which you did not answer:

1. did psychedelics help you along your journey?

2. Was there ever fear of death / panic , if so, how did you overcome it ?

thank you so much

I'll answer #1 in private.

#2 - do you mean existential fear? Yes. Some early inquiries it really felt like I was 'on to something' because I started thinking down lines of 'what is really going on here?' and trying out different reality models in my head. I hit on some big emptiness (which probably was what I now called 'home') and it scared me to the core.

Or if you mean fear of death in general, yes there was a lot of that before. It seems silly now. Not even a thing to think about. And it wasn't overcome (though I know what you mean) it was more let go than anything. If it is seen clearly that you are nothing and everything, then you've already died and you've never been born. There is no one to worry about. 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

I also was the one who gave myself credit, so it's a little awkward...

It's the prefect circle-jerk

No one can give you credit for being amazing but you

[Sempiternity]

46 minutes ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

 If it is seen clearly that you are nothing and everything, then you've already died and you've never been born. There is no one to worry about. 

What does one do with their life? Do you seek to find pleasure? Do you work towards satisfying desires or accomplishments? Do you even hang out with friends, knowing they are just you and illusionary? If there is no one to worry about, why not sit in a room for the next few decades?

Lets say you get diagnosed with cancer. Do you go through the extensive invasive treatments that the doctors recommend, or do you just ignore them as it doesn't matter, as you don't exist to begin with? 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

1 hour ago, Jed Vassallo said:

What does one do with their life? Do you seek to find pleasure? Do you work towards satisfying desires or accomplishments? Do you even hang out with friends, knowing they are just you and illusionary? If there is no one to worry about, why not sit in a room for the next few decades?

Lets say you get diagnosed with cancer. Do you go through the extensive invasive treatments that the doctors recommend, or do you just ignore them as it doesn't matter, as you don't exist to begin with? 

I like your questions. 

What does one do with their life?

• there is no doer. really. what happens is what happens

Do you seek to find pleasure?

• There is still a preference for pleasure (it's pleasurable), but not an attachment to it. It just is what's happening.

Do you work towards satisfying desires or accomplishments?

• Things still happen. I own a business and 'go to work' every day but it's just what is happening. I follow impulses, basically. Thoughts and motivations arise from nothing, and that is what happens. And yet, it's experienced as if it's chosen. Free will doesn't exist, but the feeling of free will does. It's both an active and passive experience. 

Do you even hang out with friends, knowing they are just you and illusionary?

• So there is no one 'me' who is then alone in a world of ghosts. I guess that sounds a bit like solipsism. There is no 'me' or 'others'. There is no one to be alone. Hanging out happens--no one 'does it' though. 

If there is no one to worry about, why not sit in a room for the next few decades?

• I think the answer above suffices for this. The question assumes a 'me' and 'no one else world'. That is probably as close as mind can get with language, but it's not far enough. Everything is this. This is everything. There is no 'me', no 'other'--there are no 'things' (though it appears as though there are). There is only this, which is nothing appearing as everything.

Lets say you get diagnosed with cancer. Do you go through the extensive invasive treatments that the doctors recommend, or do you just ignore them as it doesn't matter, as you don't exist to begin with? 

• It's known here that nothing is known, and trying to predict the future is part of the dream, but that probably doesn't help (maybe it does?).
• There is no fear of nor concern with death. It seems like only a separate 'me' is worried about it. When the wave knows that it is really the ocean, does it really care about crashing on the shore?
• Having said all that, what I imagine will happen in general is this body will try to live (as it does), and decisions will be made (by no one, but as they have been). In the end, no one will really die (no one was really born) and from a relative perspective I've had an experience of almost dying and it was not bad (after I let go). I imagine it will feel something like sleep and/or going home. Really, though, it's just not important because it isn't what's happening. I'll deal with it when it comes is the basic attitude. If it isn't right here, right now, it does not exist.

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by Koyaanisqatsi

[Sempiternity]

Fascinating. Thank you for such thoughtful responses. Lots to contemplate. 

[Mohamed Saleh]

Thanks a lot for sharing ?

[Alex bliss]

Ay bro look..go make a video so that we can really know what a liberated beings act like or look like so that we don't have any crazy expectations or ideas about enlightenment..please that would help a lot...that's when I will believe you...it may mean nothing to you but it will help a lot for all beings who are stucked as a separate self... be compassionate for once... ?

[Koyaanisqatsi]

9 hours ago, Alex bliss said:

Ay bro look..go make a video so that we can really know what a liberated beings act like or look like so that we don't have any crazy expectations or ideas about enlightenment..please that would help a lot...that's when I will believe you...it may mean nothing to you but it will help a lot for all beings who are stucked as a separate self... be compassionate for once... ?

I totally understand your desire (when the illusion of separation exists, the mind seems to always looking for 'something' it doesn't have), but it's not possible to tell if someone is liberated or not, despite the stories and beliefs around it. If anything, those stories need to be let go of. Liberation is not a certifiable event, and only you will know if it happens or not. There are already enough non-duality videos and books out there. Seeing me on video won't really help, I'm afraid. I don't float around in the lotus position or anything, nor have any magic shortcuts, nor any words that have not already been spoken. I can't put you in my position so that you can see it, but if you have had any awakenings, I can say that what was experienced in my awakenings are now seen as my direct reality, only now it's normal. The awakenings possibly were so profound because of the contrast between separation and non-separation.

There is no concern at all if anyone 'believes' me or not. If anything, I say do NOT believe me or anyone--take the pointers, explore for yourself, and challenge everything you think is real. Drop all ideas about so-called 'enlightenment'. It's not what you think. You can't imagine no 'you'. You can only 'be' your true nature. The ideas of what it will look like or feel like will get in the way (and probably already are). This is basically the meaning of, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." It's also not about mind. It's psychosomatic.

Finally, there is nothing to gain. It's more about a loss, except the only thing to lose is an illusion--like a mirage in the desert. You will lose the story of 'you', the story of 'others', the story of 'things' and 'events', and see that what is happening is just 'this'. 'This' is an utterly unknowable mystery that is already whole and complete--it needs nothing, and feels like unconditional love. And you are it.  

Peace,

Ken

[Alex bliss]

Get it !! But can you be sure that you will not get rebirth?? I don't think it's possible to know!!

[wavydude]

15 minutes ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

 You will lose the story of 'you', the story of 'others', the story of 'things' and 'events', and see that what is happening is just 'this'.

But what is happening is directly result of what happened in the past ( You can even argue that if you had enough data and powerful computer you could predict the whole thing).

So if I make the choice(who is this I?) to do something other way it doesn't even matter because what's going to happen will happen anyway aaaaand I'm feeling trapped and powerless.. what's up with that.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

1 hour ago, Alex bliss said:

Get it !! But can you be sure that you will not get rebirth?? I don't think it's possible to know!!

There is no one to be reborn, there is no one who was ever born or will ever die in the history of forever. That is illusion. There really really are no 'things'--no objects whatsoever. There appear to be, but they are emptiness appearing as 'others'. There is only 'this' and it's totally impersonal. But don't take my word for it, please. Just take it as a pointer.

"I" is merely a thought--an idea. Find this "I" that claims it was born and has so many needs, wants to be perfect, and wants to be loved (etc.). You can't just believe others that there is no "I". Unless what is actually happening is seen enough, and clearly enough (not just once--an awakening alone is just a glimpse--it may take 1,000 times or more--who knows?), the belief in separation (that is so well ingrained) will remain. Keep looking, keep inquiring, until there is no need to any more.  

[Koyaanisqatsi]

2 hours ago, wavydude said:

But what is happening is directly result of what happened in the past ( You can even argue that if you had enough data and powerful computer you could predict the whole thing).

So if I make the choice(who is this I?) to do something other way it doesn't even matter because what's going to happen will happen anyway aaaaand I'm feeling trapped and powerless.. what's up with that.

This was a tough concept for me--cause and effect. Alan Watts did a great job of explaining it in the video I posted recently.

On one hand, it could be said that what's happening now is a result of what happened before it. The problem is, this goes all the way back to the 'big bang' and even before, and there is no beginning (what would have been before that?). Also, we are talking about infinity here. Any attempt to isolate a so-called 'event' is to draw an arbitrary line around an illusion. You can't get outside of everything to view it. There are no events.

If this is looked at, it can be seen then that if one thing causes another, then everything that will ever happen is already determined--in a way the future has already happened. Life is happening, and no one is controlling it. Cause and effect needs a 'controller' but there is no control. This is a cosmic avalanche, of sorts, and it's going to go as it's going to go. Just sit down, buckle up, and enjoy the ride.

On the other hand, it can be seen that everything is spontaneously happening in each so-called 'moment' (it's always now), with no cause for it, no reason, no intention.

The real mind fuck is that it's both and neither. It's a strange loop. These are concepts too. All must be let go of. I can't overstate what 'All' means. 

As for choosing, there is no free will, and no one to make the choice. It can be seen that this is all just happening (don't believe--explore and discover). It's what is happening, and what has always been happening. You have never been in control of anything that has happened. No one has ever had a thought or action they were in control of. This can bring tremendous relief when it's seen clearly. 

Who is feeling trapped and powerless? The so-called 'ego' (or a mind with the illusion of separation) doesn't like it because it's so sure that it is in control, it knows what it needs (and it's not this--it's always something 'else'), and life will go to hell if it doesn't 'do' something. Maybe try this--for some time period (I did this on a vacation once), just let go. Let whatever happens, happen. You may find that nothing is any different, only it feels easier, smoother. It's really about attitude. If your attitude is in line with the flow of life, it's all good. Suffering is resisting what is, and seeking something 'else'. It's futile. 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Koyaanisqatsi