Liberation (Thank you, Leo)

[allislove]

17 hours ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

There is no one to be reborn, there is no one who was ever born or will ever die in the history of forever. That is illusion. There really really are no 'things'--no objects whatsoever. There appear to be, but they are emptiness appearing as 'others'. There is only 'this' and it's totally impersonal. But don't take my word for it, please. Just take it as a pointer.

Is it fair to have the analogy of video game?
The One character plays all game characters simultaneously (including all things in the game). If one game character dies the Real character may add another game character to the game or none.

[Alex bliss]

Are you completely disidentified with your thoughts feelings sensation and body ??? I mean isn't that what losing the sense of self means because identifying with all forms create false sense of self... does every words you speak comes from no intention ?? Do you sound sweet while you talk like free of judgement??  See that's why I want you to make a video .. 

[Eu Sint]

Congratulations and thank you for sharing this story with us and thank you also to Leo for this wonderful place he created and for the teachings he shares with us. I apologize for leaving a few rows of my own story in your topic, but I just want to confirm what you said. I know you don't need any confirmation from anyone to authenticate your achievement. When one get his liberation only himself know that.As I related in my story from the forum, when i was child 4 -5 years old, I experienced directly the absorption in the Absolute Etenal without any meditation and without the help of any psychedelic substance. Was a pure samadhi.Then was came the spiritual awakening that led later in my life to the final liberation. From then on, this feeling, that I am this silent  and impenetrable presence accompanied me all my life, but because the mind was not sufficiently mature, I could not understand what that really meant, until two years ago.All my life I have lived with this feeling that everyone is the same as me, that there is no difference between us, and yet I was surprised why no one talks about this silent presence.After 43 years I finally became aware that I was liberated all the time. Indeed the words "realisation ", "enlightenment" or "liberation" sound so great and high, but it does not mean anything at all. The only great thing who matter ,is to be present in this moment right now. Everything is so simple and clear.I'm still having fun on this: How can someone who already got liberation, live 40 years, without being completely aware of it??Unbelievable ,this is a paradox.It was like I ran in a circle following my own shadow.I don't need anyone to believe me and I don't have to prove it to anyone, because I'm the living proof that I exist.

 

When you are aware of each and every thought that arises, the mind merge in Consciousness, and between them don’t exist any difference now.Practically so said mind disappears, remaining only pure Consciousness. From this moment even if you are aware of every thought, even if you are not, you remain conscious of your own consciousness. It is as like mind descends into the silence of the heart.

Someone has asked you if you can be aware of your own thoughts continuously.Its possible .Yes I am aware of every thought that comes up and any emotion that accompanies it, but I think this is due to the listening techniques I have practiced. Basically I learned to listen as if I wanted to hear the noise of the steps ,an ant makes when she walks. It’s possible but this is not a necessary condition for ones spiritual practice,nor does it make any difference between the methods by which you can recognize yourself. You just have to be, that's enough.

Now there is only this constant feeling of presence that radiates continuously everywhere,as a heart from where everything is felt without any explanation needed. When you are established in this silence nothing can touch you. Now you know without a doubt ,That you are.Everything around you is the same and now you notice how your presence impregnates everything and never mixes with anything.A little advice for everyone involved in this spiritual path, don’t make any idea what a samadhi, awakening or final liberation should be.I made this mistake and I can tell you that it is a big obstacle ,that it will be difficult for you to remove later. 

Thank you everyone .

Pace ?

Edited October 7, 2019 by Eu Sint
Love

[Bobby]

Unless you know your former births and the death and rebirth of all beings you aren’t liberated. It’s not fantasy, it’s the truth. I know through direct experience- I’ll be making a post about it soon

[Koyaanisqatsi]

On 10/7/2019 at 6:03 AM, dimitri said:

Is it fair to have the analogy of video game?
The One character plays all game characters simultaneously (including all things in the game). If one game character dies the Real character may add another game character to the game or none.

Yes, I had similar thoughts. It's a bit like a giant multiplayer game with one player. To make it interesting at all, the one player needs to forget that it is all players. Just a story, but it might be useful to think of it that way at some point.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

On 10/7/2019 at 7:07 AM, Alex bliss said:

Are you completely disidentified with your thoughts feelings sensation and body ??? I mean isn't that what losing the sense of self means because identifying with all forms create false sense of self... does every words you speak comes from no intention ?? Do you sound sweet while you talk like free of judgement??  See that's why I want you to make a video .. 

There are thoughts and feelings, but they don't belong to anyone. There is no thought that, "Oh, I just did that." It's more like, "Oh, that just happened." 

I don't know about sounding 'sweet', but it does soften language in a way because although 'non-sweet' things can still happen, there is no blame towards another. So no worry about why they did something, no thought that they could have chosen to do something else. It's all what is happening.

I understand what you want to see. It would probably be necessary to follow me around for a few days, which would be dreadfully boring. It might also be necessary to have known me for a while in order to see any differences. To a large extent, nothing changes (but everything is different). 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

On 10/7/2019 at 3:08 PM, Eu Sint said:

Congratulations and thank you for sharing this story with us and thank you also to Leo for this wonderful place he created and for the teachings he shares with us. I apologize for leaving a few rows of my own story in your topic, but I just want to confirm what you said. I know you don't need any confirmation from anyone to authenticate your achievement. When one get his liberation only himself know that.As I related in my story from the forum, when i was child 4 -5 years old, I experienced directly the absorption in the Absolute Etenal without any meditation and without the help of any psychedelic substance. Was a pure samadhi.Then was came the spiritual awakening that led later in my life to the final liberation. From then on, this feeling, that I am this silent  and impenetrable presence accompanied me all my life, but because the mind was not sufficiently mature, I could not understand what that really meant, until two years ago.All my life I have lived with this feeling that everyone is the same as me, that there is no difference between us, and yet I was surprised why no one talks about this silent presence.After 43 years I finally became aware that I was liberated all the time. Indeed the words "realisation ", "enlightenment" or "liberation" sound so great and high, but it does not mean anything at all. The only great thing who matter ,is to be present in this moment right now. Everything is so simple and clear.I'm still having fun on this: How can someone who already got liberation, live 40 years, without being completely aware of it??Unbelievable ,this is a paradox.It was like I ran in a circle following my own shadow.I don't need anyone to believe me and I don't have to prove it to anyone, because I'm the living proof that I exist.

 

When you are aware of each and every thought that arises, the mind merge in Consciousness, and between them don’t exist any difference now.Practically so said mind disappears, remaining only pure Consciousness. From this moment even if you are aware of every thought, even if you are not, you remain conscious of your own consciousness. It is as like mind descends into the silence of the heart.

Someone has asked you if you can be aware of your own thoughts continuously.Its possible .Yes I am aware of every thought that comes up and any emotion that accompanies it, but I think this is due to the listening techniques I have practiced. Basically I learned to listen as if I wanted to hear the noise of the steps ,an ant makes when she walks. It’s possible but this is not a necessary condition for ones spiritual practice,nor does it make any difference between the methods by which you can recognize yourself. You just have to be, that's enough.

Now there is only this constant feeling of presence that radiates continuously everywhere,as a heart from where everything is felt without any explanation needed. When you are established in this silence nothing can touch you. Now you know without a doubt ,That you are.Everything around you is the same and now you notice how your presence impregnates everything and never mixes with anything.A little advice for everyone involved in this spiritual path, don’t make any idea what a samadhi, awakening or final liberation should be.I made this mistake and I can tell you that it is a big obstacle ,that it will be difficult for you to remove later. 

Thank you everyone .

Pace ?

Beautiful, and it actually makes sense from my perspective. It's actually quite mundane, which is why it's overlooked. It's right here right now. It's everything. That which is constant is not noticed. It could also be easily said that everyone is already enlightened, but that isn't much help to a seeker.

Glimpses and peak experiences can be filled with strong emotions, but liberation is not that way. It truly is the most ordinary extraordinary event. It is only by 'looking back' that one notices the change.

I agree that our beliefs about what liberation is or will mean, and what is needed to 'get there' are maybe the biggest obstacle to dissolving the illusion of separation. 

[allislove]

9 minutes ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

Yes, I had similar thoughts. It's a bit like a giant multiplayer game with one player. To make it interesting at all, the one player needs to forget that it is all players. Just a story, but it might be useful to think of it that way at some point.

Thanks for the quick reply!

Just kidding. 

Another story. So, one player needs to forget that it is all players to have an interesting game, as you pointed. But at the same time the one player must know that it's one to create this Reality (miracle) from nothing.

Or, maybe, I took this analogy too far. 

Anyway, thank you. 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

11 hours ago, Bobby said:

Unless you know your former births and the death and rebirth of all beings you aren’t liberated. It’s not fantasy, it’s the truth. I know through direct experience- I’ll be making a post about it soon

Here it is seen clearly that there is no one to die and no one was ever born. 'This' is all there is, and its everything and nothing. There may be memories in some people of so-called 'past lives'--some people seem to be born with 'leftover' talents, memories, etc. but to me that is a bit like considering that one 'wave' in the ocean (which is not separate from the ocean) is made up of water from past 'waves'. There is only ocean--waves are an illusion. One wave isn't 'reborn' as another wave, unless you just want to tell a story about that, which requires separation. 

It sounds like there are some beliefs still in the system about what 'this' is and how it works. Here it is seen that this is unknowable, without meaning, substance, intent, or 'reality'. It will be interesting to see what you have to say.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Koyaanisqatsi

[Koyaanisqatsi]

4 minutes ago, dimitri said:

Thanks for the quick reply!

Just kidding. 

Another story. So, one player needs to forget that it is all players to have an interesting game, as you pointed. But at the same time the one player must know that it's one to create this Reality (miracle) from nothing.

Or, maybe, I took this analogy too far. 

Anyway, thank you. 

Any analogy, concept, teaching, word, etc. only goes so far. They all fail in the end. Interesting to play with, and they can point to the 'truth', but all will be discarded.

[allislove]

1 minute ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

Any analogy, concept, teaching, word, etc. only goes so far. They all fail in the end. Interesting to play with, and they can point to the 'truth', but all will be discarded.

Right, so all the theory is just pointers which basically may help for finding Truth while practicing or may not. 

[Eu Sint]

17 hours ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

It's actually quite mundane, which is why it's overlooked. It's right here right now. It's everything. That which is constant is not noticed. It could also be easily said that everyone is already enlightened, but that isn't much help to a seeker.

Glimpses and peak experiences can be filled with strong emotions, but liberation is not that way. It truly is the most ordinary extraordinary event. It is only by 'looking back' that one notices the change.

I agree that our beliefs about what liberation is or will mean, and what is needed to 'get there' are maybe the biggest obstacle to dissolving the illusion of separation. 

“The appreciation of objects and subjects Is the same for an enlightened.As for an unenlightened person.The former has one greatness:He remains in the subjective mood,Not lost in things.”-Vijnana Bairava Tantra

When I look around, I find myself in everything  and I realize that being enlightened or not being enlightened is the same thing. You can say that everyone is enlightened or that there is no one here to be enlightened. Like you said “It's actually quite mundane, which is why it's overlooked”.It's like you're the invisible man and no one can see you, no matter how you shake hands, no matter how hard you try to make yourself heard, no one can hear you.?.But who wants to be invisible, who really wants to have no identity? Now it is enough to look at random anywhere or to meet the gaze of anyone and I only see myself. Everything is so simple. There is nothing important, nothing special here .Is only a change of observation point from the outside to the inside, to realize that there is neither interior nor exterior.  There is only one Being.?

[allislove]

18 hours ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

I agree that our beliefs about what liberation is or will mean, and what is needed to 'get there' are maybe the biggest obstacle to dissolving the illusion of separation. 

Does it mean that the best thing to do is to question those beliefs? In other words, to make a  new belief that liberation is not what you think it is, etc. 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

On 10/10/2019 at 5:13 AM, dimitri said:

Does it mean that the best thing to do is to question those beliefs? In other words, to make a  new belief that liberation is not what you think it is, etc. 

While sometimes it's necessary to use a thorn (belief) to remove another thorn (belief), both should be discarded. I would recommend to all to not cling to any beliefs. They keep you in the dream. The thing is, they can be hard to notice. Many just feel like, "That's the way it is--it's not a belief." Sort of like you don't know what you don't know. If one is feeling stuck or frustrated, though, it could be because a belief is getting in the way. It can be seen that you don't actually know anything. No one does. That is the freedom (in a way). Nothing is real--it's all an illusion.

[lostmedstudent]

@Eu Sint has that realization / experience ever scared you? knowing that it is all you and all is enlightened? i guess as you said you have experienced this since such a young age that it has become a norm, so probably not scary. but for some people to have that realization all of a sudden on a trip, its quite a lot to stomach. how should we deal with nihilist thoughts, such as theres no point in life, ,ans all just goes in full circle?

 

thanks

[Beginner Mind]

On ‎2019‎-‎10‎-‎02 at 6:46 PM, Koyaanisqatsi said:

I have not heard him say those words. My understanding of his teaching is that he would say something to the effect of, "Seeing the wave is really ocean doesn't negate the wave."

Roger definitely teaches that after enlightenment the individual self remains intact, albeit with the understanding that he or she is not the one doing anything.  Roger confirmed it when I e-mailed him.

[cervid]

Nice Post

 

How do you perceive deep sleep ? Is there continous awareness in all 3 states, waking, dreaming and sleeping ? Do you perceive all of them without break in consciousness ?

 

Do you have a locality where your consciousness is ? I am still identified with this body mind complex and perceive the world from a perspective of the body-mind with my point of awareness is somewhere located around the head. How do you experience the happenings, where are you located ? Do you expereince everything and everyone at once ?