Liberation (Thank you, Leo)

[Koyaanisqatsi]

2 hours ago, Alex bliss said:

Please make a YouTube video 

The thought to make videos has arisen, partly because it's part of the skill set I have (digital content creation), but the action hasn't happened yet. One reason might be that there are infinite things that could be said, so where to start? I think that the reason the satsang approach works well for so many teachers is that it's easier to respond to a finite question than to just sit and let words come out. Words do come out sometimes, but when that has happened I have not been on video. We'll see...

[Knock]

@Koyaanisqatsi

Have you ever done psychedelics?
If so, was it helpful and would you recommend it?
If not, why not?

[Beginner Mind]

@Koyaanisqatsi You mentioned that Roger Castillo was helpful on your journey.  Do you agree with him when he says that once enlightenment occurs the organism continues to live his life as a separate individual?  I'm curious because many sages like Nisargadatta Maharaj taught that liberation means the total annihilation of the sense of being a separate individual.  Where do you stand on this?

[Alex bliss]

Are you constantly aware of all your thoughts 24 hours?? 

 

Please make one video on how  to do Self enquiry properly..?

[Esoteric]

Hey look, Mikael made a bitter post everybody

[Koyaanisqatsi]

13 hours ago, Beginner Mind said:

@Koyaanisqatsi You mentioned that Roger Castillo was helpful on your journey.  Do you agree with him when he says that once enlightenment occurs the organism continues to live his life as a separate individual?  I'm curious because many sages like Nisargadatta Maharaj taught that liberation means the total annihilation of the sense of being a separate individual.  Where do you stand on this?

I have not heard him say those words. My understanding of his teaching is that he would say something to the effect of, "Seeing the wave is really ocean doesn't negate the wave." 

These things can get tricky. Be careful of spiritual beliefs. Many teachers use different words for the same thing, yet no words are really true, and no one really knows what is going on or how/why anything happens. Everyone is doing their best to share from their experience, and there is a lot of misinterpretation, but that is just what happens. Ultimately, none of this can be talked about--any attempt at explanation distorts what is being pointed to.

And taking a stand is possible only from within separation, within the dream. So Nisargadatta Maharaj saying that liberation means X is the character of Nisargadatta Maharaj speaking from a point of relativity. Does that mean he wasn't enlightened? (To me it means that he both is and isn't enlightened--as are 'you'.) What exactly is or isn't liberation is just part of the game of separation--the need to 'know' what things are (which is impossible). I could say there is no liberation, or that everyone is actually already liberated, and they would both be right.

I'm not worried about defining things, or proving that I'm 'enlightened' or something. That's part of what happened--all apparent 'meaning' is gone. It is seen clearly that there are no real 'objects' and that includes 'me' and 'others' (and 'trees' or 'cars' or what have you). Yet, there are all these 'shapes' and 'colors' and it sure is convenient if I'm hungry that I can tell the refrigerator from the garbage can. That doesn't make them 'real' though. Just convenient labels.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

9 hours ago, Alex bliss said:

Are you constantly aware of all your thoughts 24 hours?? 

 

Please make one video on how  to do Self enquiry properly..?

Be careful of spiritual beliefs. I had a lot of them, too. There are so many misunderstanding of what happens. I have not met anyone who is aware of their thoughts 24/7. Awareness is only available in the waking and dream states, not in deep sleep. 

There is a feeling of being constantly present (that's the only thing there is--everything is happening 'now'), of not going into 'time' (except for practical things like pickup someone up from school). Perhaps most if not all of the thoughts that do come up are seen (by no one--there is just a seeing of them). That doesn't seem important, though. Thoughts that revolve around being a separate individual are gone.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

8 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

@Koyaanisqatsi Is the ultimate Reality and Maya and everything looooove? (Hoping you will say it isn't.)

I don't know about ultimate reality (what is that?). I would echo Roger Castillo and say that the only truth in the manifestation is the impersonal sense of "I am."

To me, Maya is the illusion. That is not love--that is suffering.

The connection to source, however, feels like love. Not the love that most of you are probably thinking about. I would call that love more like 'desire' and would actually lump it in with suffering. It has needs, it has conditions--it can go away. Not this. The feeling I experience is that there is a love that shines on all, for no reason/without condition. It shines on 'others' as equally as it shines on 'me'. It never stops. It never changes. It's always there. It is prior to mind and feels like the only thing that is 'real' (because it doesn't change and everything else is always changing--impermanent).

[Koyaanisqatsi]

8 hours ago, Esoteric said:

Hey look, Mikael made a bitter post everybody

Mikael will do what Mikael will do. There is no entity controlling Mikael, or Ken, or you. It's all just happening spontaneously.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

16 hours ago, dimitri said:

@Koyaanisqatsi be super careful with these kind of questions, otherwise you may end up leaving the forum. 

 

Thank you for the warning. 

[Alex bliss]

There was an arahant named ajahn maha boa who claimed to have reached the complete emptiness of mind with no defilement.....you can look up to his YouTube videos....does it contradicts your attainments?? Cuz he was a perfect example of most people's perfect enlightenment idea..

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

At least you don't say that Maya is Love, that makes me glad. There is no Love here.

Notice how attached you are to the idea that Truth cannot be love.

This is a bias which will cloud your ability to inquire into the nature of Truth.

You consistently advance a dogma against love. This is inappropriate in this work.

Let that dogma go and be willing to experience Truth as whatever it might be.

The quotes you cite and arguments you make a just serving that dogma. You're attached to the Truth fitting some way you need it to be. Don't argue with me. Just notice what I'm pointing out to you.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

8 hours ago, Alex bliss said:

There was an arahant named ajahn maha boa who claimed to have reached the complete emptiness of mind with no defilement.....you can look up to his YouTube videos....does it contradicts your attainments?? Cuz he was a perfect example of most people's perfect enlightenment idea..

Enlightenment is possibly one of the trickiest concepts/beliefs to deal with. There are so many explanations, so many definitions, and we build up ideas about what it will be like (e.g. I will be perfect and people will love me and follow me and listen to my wise words). When those definitions and beliefs about what it 'will be' are clung to and held up as 'real' or 'true', we hide what is. In the end, it's not something that can be proven to others--and I don't feel a need to compare definitions as they are all part of the dream. Liberation is the dissolution of all distinctions and boundaries--including 'me' and 'other', and all words and concepts--so it can't be described. That in essence is the problem, and may be why silence is such a part of most paths. In the silence you can find your 'self'. It will not match any description you've ever heard, but the pointers may all make sense. You will know when you know, but there won't be any 'person' there who cares about it. It's just what's happening.  

[Koyaanisqatsi]

@Mikael89

I have to admit, Jed never made much sense to me (I read almost all of his work) until recently. He didn't match my idea of an enlightened person. At this point, there is more understanding of his words--some form of 'truth' (tricky word) can be seen in all the teachings.

If love is felt or not felt, who or what is aware of this? What is love? Maybe follow Jed's advice and try to prove anything you think is true?

In my experience, in the end everything will be let go of. Everything. E v e r y t h i n g.

There is nothing to actually hold on to. Nothing has any substance or meaning. I think this is very scary to one with the idea of a 'me' because a 'me' only exists in relation to other things. Without contrast, there is no 'me'--there is only nothing, which is everything. 

[kieranperez]

@Koyaanisqatsi start charging one rolls Royce per question  

[Nahm]

@Koyaanisqatsi Great thread, and I really appreciate your candor. This is precisely how it should be done imho. ♥️??

[mandyjw]

@Koyaanisqatsi Amazing thread, thank you. 

The "rewinds" that you mentioned have been happening to me recently, but I hadn't thought of "purposefully" using them. 

I'm curious if you experienced anything you'd describe in terms of integrating heart and mind. I believe that awakening could be thought of as a dramatic opening of both mind and heart. I can only assume and have ideas about what happens at the end of the path. 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Koyaanisqatsi Great thread, and I really appreciate your candor. This is precisely how it should be done imho. ♥️??

Thank you, @Nahm but of course I can't take any credit for anything. This is just happening...   

[Koyaanisqatsi]

4 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@Koyaanisqatsi Amazing thread, thank you. 

The "rewinds" that you mentioned have been happening to me recently, but I hadn't thought of "purposefully" using them. 

I'm curious if you experienced anything you'd describe in terms of integrating heart and mind. I believe that awakening could be thought of as a dramatic opening of both mind and heart. I can only assume and have ideas about what happens at the end of the path. 

Purpose is a dirty word. lol There is no purpose (though at early stages things like purpose may help get to a place where it can go full circle), and they just happened as part of what felt like an intense investigation. There was no control over when they happen or if they happen. But it did feel like it until it didn't.  

Ok, so this is just a story, but I have heard Rupert Spira speak of two paths: the path of the head, and the path of the heart. He said they both lead to the same place. Is that what you'd call integration?

In my case, it felt like I was kind of doing both. Using intellect to question assumptions and explore my direct experience, and also opening up my heart and sort of dissolving the walls I'd built to protect me. Maybe it helped? It's so hard to say. I had some beautiful opportunities to experience great suffering in my heart along the way, and it seems like they were somehow helpful. Each one, when released, seemed to peel back a layer of the onion. 

If 'mind' is taken as 'that thing that tells me I should/shouldn't do ____', then that mind goes away. Those energies seem to just stop happening. Is there a different kind of 'mind' that you meant?

There really is no 'mind' or 'heart' that could integrate. Those are stories. It's an illusion if they are (or anything is) seen as separate (don't worry--it's a very powerful illusion).

Edited October 4, 2019 by Koyaanisqatsi

[allislove]

I have tried guided meditations for the fist time (well, not counting meditations on Vipassana retreat) and quite liked it, thank you.

I have tried so far:
• Kiss the Toad
• Being Aware of Being Aware is the Highest Meditation

Todo:
•  Pouring Emptiness into the Body

So, I basically can google "Rupert Spira guided meditations" and do any of them. But do you want to suggest other teacher for guided meditations, so I have some variety?