Importance of diet

[JonasVE12]

I started going to the gym and trying to gain some weight. I have a small appetite so my priority is making sure the things I eat are calorie dense.

These foods aren't always the most healthy. Though, they aren't that bad either, I suppose. I don't eat junkfood. 

I've ocasionally seen people here talking about diet when doing consciousness work. 

I eat the following things; white bread, cheese, oats, milk, proteine powder, banana, pasta, peanut butter, meat, fish

 

My concern is that I don't get the micronutriets I need while following the classic bodybuilder diet. Any advice? Do I maybe need supplements like vitamins and such?

Edited September 28, 2019 by JonasVE12

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

Nutrient dense>calorie dense. If you abide by this the calories will mostly take care of themselves. You just have to scale the portion sizes up to meet your apatite with your raised activity level due to exercise. 

For carbs, your main source should be fruits/veggies, can throw in some more starchy carbs like potatoes, yams, pasta, bread around your exercise sessions sense your body will be more insulin sensitive (being able to process these carbs better) especially after intense exercise. 

Then for protein I would try to stay with lean cuts of organic meat, and fish too. You get a good protein source and a lot of healthy fats with fish like salmon and trout. Other healthy fats coming from nuts, avacados, and other monounsaturated fats like olive oil, some peanut butter in moderation ect.

Ultimately you have to find the balance of something being healthy and sustainable but also something you genuinely enjoy. So you will go through trial and error but will eventually find the foods that work for you. 

[JonasVE12]

19 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

Nutrient dense>calorie dense. If you abide by this the calories will mostly take care of themselves. You just have to scale the portion sizes up to meet your apatite with your raised activity level due to exercise. 

For carbs, your main source should be fruits/veggies, can throw in some more starchy carbs like potatoes, yams, pasta, bread around your exercise sessions sense your body will be more insulin sensitive (being able to process these carbs better) especially after intense exercise. 

Then for protein I would try to stay with lean cuts of organic meat, and fish too. You get a good protein source and a lot of healthy fats with fish like salmon and trout. Other healthy fats coming from nuts, avacados, and other monounsaturated fats like olive oil, some peanut butter in moderation ect.

Ultimately you have to find the balance of something being healthy and sustainable but also something you genuinely enjoy. So you will go through trial and error but will eventually find the foods that work for you. 

Thanks for responding. Yeah you're right about the nutrient dense>calorie dense when it comes to health. But I'm trying to gain weight, so I'll kinda have to lean towards the calorie dense food for awhile till my stomach expands a little more, then I can make place for more nutrient dense food as you suggest. I consider my health to be of as much importance as my physique. I'm also a college student so have a low budget. Do you know the effects of crappy food on your experience and body? Low energy? lower cognitive functioning? is it significant?

I'd like to eat more veggies, but don't like them at all lol. Feel like a little child that doesn't want to eat veggies.

I'm not knowledgable at all on nutrition, and I would like to research this more, but I'm wondering if it will make a big difference in my energy/cognitive fuctioning if I change my diet. If it doesn't, then why would I care. Maybe I can just take some vitamins instead of going through the uncomfortable proces to adjust to a new diet full of wonderful veggies.

 

Edited September 28, 2019 by JonasVE12

[Space]

@JonasVE12 Atleast what you're eating is low in processed sugar, which is the really the number one thing when it comes to good diet.

If you really want to optimise your diet, take out the white bread and pasta or atleast swap them for wholegrain versions.

I would not be surprised if you were deficient in a lot of essential nutrients if you have been eating just those foods for a long time. Get a blood test to check.

A variety of foods is essential for healthy living. If you eat the same thing all the time you're more likely to develop intolerances (particularly with things like peanut butter)

I would say you need to get in a wider variety of foods, particularly vegetables. There are literally so many vegetables you can eat, and just with a little seasoning the majority of them are delicious.

You need to develop a palette for vegetables. So just slowly incorporate them into your diet. It literally takes 5 minutes to cut and steam some broccoli, or 10 minutes to boil some potatoes. 

Bad gut bacteria thrive of junk food and crappy foods, particularly sugars of all kind (white sugar and as refined carbs). Occasional treats are allowed of course, but anything over the top and your asking for gut problems.

Vitamins can help but should never be a substitute for real whole foods. Just eat your vegetables and fruits.

[Inliytened1]

Salmon is packed with nutrients - its one of the healthiest foods you can eat.  

So if you are eating fish that is very healthy.  Tuna is good too.  

Get your superfood veggies in like broccoli and sweet potatoes.   For nutrient dense fats eat avocado.

You don't need to supplement vitamins if your diet is nutrient dense enough.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

4 hours ago, JonasVE12 said:

Thanks for responding. Yeah you're right about the nutrient dense>calorie dense when it comes to health. But I'm trying to gain weight, so I'll kinda have to lean towards the calorie dense food for awhile till my stomach expands a little more, then I can make place for more nutrient dense food as you suggest. I consider my health to be of as much importance as my physique. I'm also a college student so have a low budget. Do you know the effects of crappy food on your experience and body? Low energy? lower cognitive functioning? is it significant?

I'd like to eat more veggies, but don't like them at all lol. Feel like a little child that doesn't want to eat veggies.

I'm not knowledgable at all on nutrition, and I would like to research this more, but I'm wondering if it will make a big difference in my energy/cognitive fuctioning if I change my diet. If it doesn't, then why would I care. Maybe I can just take some vitamins instead of going through the uncomfortable proces to adjust to a new diet full of wonderful veggies.

 

I promise you if you can gradually adapt to a more plant based/whole foods diet your cognitive function and sense of well being will go through the roof. You will hit a new baseline of well-being where you can’t go back to eating low quality foods. This doesn’t mean your problems will go away of course but your mental energy and focus will go way up.

What are you going to college for? I would take a nutrition/sports nutrition class if they offer it even if it isn’t your major, will be such a good investment of your time.

The key here in not liking veggies, which is perfectly understandable, is to start to gradually increase them in your meals and maybe mix them with other “not so healthy” foods ie. putting cheese on your broccoli or honey and cinnamon on your sweet potatoes to make them more desirable, then overtime you might develop more of a taste for the veggies.

A youtube channel to check out is Athlean X, he had so many good videos on nutrition. He is very knowledgeable in nutrition for performance and will guide you with wanting to put on lean muscle mass and gradually implement healthy foods.

Hope this helps, eat clean and drain dirty my friend.

[MAYA EL]

I've been in the industry for over 15 years and it never ceases to amaze me how the same questions get asked regardless of the amount of information on the internet. There's no replacement for food good food. I spent the first three years of my workout career only gaining 5 pounds but spending hundreds of dollars a month on supplements and then the next 5 years I put on 70 lb because I had a professional diet and hardly any supplements. If you don't have to cook it or refrigerate it it's probably not as good for you as something you do have to cook and refrigerate as my coach always said

[JonasVE12]

8 hours ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

I promise you if you can gradually adapt to a more plant based/whole foods diet your cognitive function and sense of well being will go through the roof. You will hit a new baseline of well-being where you can’t go back to eating low quality foods. This doesn’t mean your problems will go away of course but your mental energy and focus will go way up.

What are you going to college for? I would take a nutrition/sports nutrition class if they offer it even if it isn’t your major, will be such a good investment of your time.

The key here in not liking veggies, which is perfectly understandable, is to start to gradually increase them in your meals and maybe mix them with other “not so healthy” foods ie. putting cheese on your broccoli or honey and cinnamon on your sweet potatoes to make them more desirable, then overtime you might develop more of a taste for the veggies.

A youtube channel to check out is Athlean X, he had so many good videos on nutrition. He is very knowledgeable in nutrition for performance and will guide you with wanting to put on lean muscle mass and gradually implement healthy foods.

Hope this helps, eat clean and drain dirty my friend.

Yeah, I’ll have to find a way to implement more healthy foods into my diet. I never considered diet to be of much importance in my personal development journey. Guess there’s a time for everything, right?

in theory eating healthy is ok, but if I consider my life situation, it is not very practical, but I will make it work. I’ll check out athleanx. Thanks 

[JonasVE12]

6 hours ago, MAYA EL said:

I've been in the industry for over 15 years and it never ceases to amaze me how the same questions get asked regardless of the amount of information on the internet. There's no replacement for food good food. I spent the first three years of my workout career only gaining 5 pounds but spending hundreds of dollars a month on supplements and then the next 5 years I put on 70 lb because I had a professional diet and hardly any supplements. If you don't have to cook it or refrigerate it it's probably not as good for you as something you do have to cook and refrigerate as my coach always said

My question is a bit more nuanced. My goal is gaining weight. I struggle to do that, so I try to lean more towards calorie dense food. I then don’t look at nutrient density, because my priorities lie in gaining weight. But still I want to make sure I don’t neglect my health. So that’s why I’m asking it would be enough to take supplements, you know. I don’t know why people say that supplements are inherently no substitute for real food. I see where that is coming from, but I would think that if my current diet lacks certain nutrients that is can get from supplements, then it does substitute for real foods. But anyways, I’ll go eat more healthy foods. 

[JonasVE12]

4 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Do you want to be a bodybuilder or do you want to be healthy?

These two things are quite difficult to reconcile.

You know, it's highly unnatural to build a lot of muscle, in fact your body is trying to prevent gaining muscle at all cost.

To gain bodybuilder-style muscle, you really have to force it. Your body resists it because excessive muscle means that you need more energy to sustain your body, which is bad because in a survival situation you want a body that requires as little energy as possible to survive as long as possible. That's why gaining muscle is so difficult.

Also there's a lot of evidence that too much protein is quite harmful (google it) and that it can cause cancer.

And bodybuilding typically involves eating a lot, much more than you need, which is a sure way to reduce your life expectancy (even if the food is relatively healthy).

In general bodybuilding and the typical muscle diet causes a lot of wear and tear to the body. 

If you do protein shakes and some steroids on top, you are not setting yourself up for health at all, the opposite.

Look at the age of death of many bodybuilders. Rich Piana died recently at age 46. This ain't health.

What do you consider bodybuilding? I’m not looking to become like Arnold Schwarzenegger. Only trying to build a decent physique. 80-90kg at 180cm is my goal

[JonasVE12]

6 minutes ago, Shiva said:

Ah ok, I was referring especially to the competitive bodybuilders.

Fitness is great and fitness is healthy! Muscle is fitness to a degree, but after a certain point, it becomes the opposite.

That's my perspective.

Thanks for sharing!

[Scholar]

I get a lot of my micronutrients in by eating Vivo Thrive. Multivitamin tablets usually aren't that effective and might even be harmful, the good thing about Vivo is that they only use natural ingredients, so it's basically a mixture of whole foods.

https://www.vivolife.co.uk/products/thrive-living-multinutrient

It makes a notibale difference in my energy levels and well-being.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Scholar

[Smurfinstein]

Definitely suggest going through "the uncomfortable process" of waking up to veggies-- veggies are great, and easy, and convenient. (I buy a 2 lb bag of broccoli slaw and put it underneath nearly everything I eat. When the bag's starting to go south, I put it in my instant pot with some onions, garlic and coconut milk and make soup of it, so I always have something to sip.) I also intermittently fast, which is an on-trend way of saying I actually like to go long periods of time without eating-- I find it works nicely with my disposition and I prefer to work out on an empty stomach, so I usually eat an entire avocado every day-- fiber, good fats, nice and calorie dense, and delicious with pink salt on top. Also super convenient (you can just eat it right out of the shell.)  Swapping white bread for whole grain might actually get you a few more calories, in addition to some nutrients (though I think our pendulum sway to WHOLE GRAIN EVERYTHING! has had a net negative overall impact (search lectins.) 

Research is generally poor about multivitamins and vitamin supplements in general- definitely doesn't make up for nutrient-sparse eating overall.

Net-net: Sounds like the next step on your evolution is to learn to love veggies. It *IS* possible. Damn, I love veggies.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

6 hours ago, Shiva said:

Do you want to be a bodybuilder or do you want to be healthy?

These two things are quite difficult to reconcile.

You know, it's highly unnatural to build a lot of muscle, in fact your body is trying to prevent gaining muscle at all cost.

To gain bodybuilder-style muscle, you really have to force it. Your body resists it because excessive muscle means that you need more energy to sustain your body, which is bad because in a survival situation you want a body that requires as little energy as possible to survive as long as possible. That's why gaining muscle is so difficult.

Also there's a lot of evidence that too much protein is quite harmful (google it) and that it can cause cancer.

And bodybuilding typically involves eating a lot, much more than you need, which is a sure way to reduce your life expectancy (even if the food is relatively healthy).

In general bodybuilding and the typical muscle diet causes a lot of wear and tear to the body. 

If you do protein shakes and some steroids on top, you are not setting yourself up for health at all, the opposite.

Look at the age of death of many bodybuilders. Rich Piana died recently at age 46. This ain't health.

Rich Piana was an extreme case and bodybuilding in the conventional sense is bad for health, there are definitely ways to put on muscle naturally though, slow and steady over time, not forcing bulk but doing bodyweight and functional movements to change your physique. I think its good to reframe your goals away from bodybuilding though and more toward functional training if you are health conscious. 

[JonasVE12]

What ya guys think? huh??? Added some nice veggies to my diet

breakfast: (600 cal)
6 slices of Whole grain bread
2 slices cheese, 1 slice of something random

shake: (1000 cal)
500ml fat milk
40g peanut butter
30g whey
50g oats
1 banana
10g cacao

dinner: (800 cal)
1: rice, potatoes, pasta
2: chicken, fish, beef
3: broccoli, peas and carrots , green beans, spinach, Cauliflower

meal 4: (350 cal)
500g greek yoghurt

drinks: (200kcal)
water, orange juice

[Scholar]

3 hours ago, JonasVE12 said:

What ya guys think? huh??? Added some nice veggies to my diet

breakfast: (600 cal)
6 slices of Whole grain bread
2 slices cheese, 1 slice of something random

shake: (1000 cal)
500ml fat milk
40g peanut butter
30g whey
50g oats
1 banana
10g cacao

dinner: (800 cal)
1: rice, potatoes, pasta
2: chicken, fish, beef
3: broccoli, peas and carrots , green beans, spinach, Cauliflower

meal 4: (350 cal)
500g greek yoghurt

drinks: (200kcal)
water, orange juice

https://cronometer.com/

See if you get everything you need from the things you eat. I would get rid of the milk, whey, yoghurt and cheese.

Chicken, fish and beef is also not healthy if you would consume it every day. Best to replace it with sources that are environmentally friendly, ethical and healthier. You can replace fish with mussels, for example. The beef and chicken can be replaced with insect substitudes.

[MAYA EL]

23 hours ago, JonasVE12 said:

My question is a bit more nuanced. My goal is gaining weight. I struggle to do that, so I try to lean more towards calorie dense food. I then don’t look at nutrient density, because my priorities lie in gaining weight. But still I want to make sure I don’t neglect my health. So that’s why I’m asking it would be enough to take supplements, you know. I don’t know why people say that supplements are inherently no substitute for real food. I see where that is coming from, but I would think that if my current diet lacks certain nutrients that is can get from supplements, then it does substitute for real foods. But anyways, I’ll go eat more healthy foods. 

There is a time and a place for supplements and 9 out of 10 people don't use them the right way and also prefer to get there nutrition from a simple diet and a lot of supplements when in reality they could go shopping and get all the foods needed to support there body. Believe it or not real bodybuilders know more about healthy diet then most dietitians ( buy real bodybuilder I mean competitive professional career based) and I promise you the skinnier and the younger the person the more supplements they own and the bigger and the older the person the less supplements they have but the Fuller the refrigerator is. 

Look at this way if you want to build a house out of bricks and you have 15 workers the only one wheelbarrow it's going to take awhile to build that house if everybody's got to share the wheelbarrow but if there's 15 wheel barrels or better yet 20 wheelbarrows then that house is going to get built way faster and this is how your body works if you don't have an excess amount of micro and Macro Nutrients is all your body's going to do is prepare the damage not adding extra muscle and in some cases not even burn fat but if you have a consistent excess amount of nutrients in the body then your body says "hey we can adapt to the Lifestyle by adding more muscle cuz we got plenty of food"

Pretty much the only supplements I recommend is 

#1 whey isolate because it digests very fast and can someone Shake directly after your workout Tanakh your body from catabolic back into anabolic as fast as possible this works better than food in this particular scenario because your digestive tract is comatose after workout and so if you eat a steak it's going to sit there for hours while you stay catabolic which is not good but the protein shake being easily absorbed will shock your body back in anabolic.

#2 BCAA's are the building blocks of your muscles and making sure that you have a balanced amount of them in your system Cuts back on house or you'll be increases your recovery and it's General all around absolutely crucial for building muscle

I drink it all throughout the day in my 1gal jug.

[Mezanti]

Cut out all non complex carbs, eat high calorie meals filled with protein and fats. You will have an increase in muscle gain and an increase in growth hormone, this all happens when insulin is not triggered.

[MAYA EL]

3 hours ago, Mezanti said:

Cut out all non complex carbs, eat high calorie meals filled with protein and fats. You will have an increase in muscle gain and an increase in growth hormone, this all happens when insulin is not triggered.

Natural insulin production is not going to have an effect on natural growth hormone in a substantial way that's going to actually affect  muscle growth especially seeing as how I'm assuming he's past his teen years . Also if he's having trouble gaining he's most likely  not carb sensitive  and possibly could be borderline hypoglycemic if not a hypoglycemic person which would mean he naturally produces too much insulin to begin with  so I would not suggest  cutting all simple carbohydrates because this just means you require even larger volumes of complex carbohydrates  in order to replace those calories  which means more food more food more food and if you feel you're at the limit and you can't  eat anymore  and I'm adding some dirty carbs every now and then.  I'm hypoglycemic  and  even  during the summer time when I was cutting down to below 10% body fat  I still had  a few or really crabby snacks throughout the week about one a day  and  it never affected my ability to lose fat matter fact it actually  when use at the right time help keep my metabolism high and it makes you look better than next day  as your muscles  fill out  and you turn into a road map  the next morning  LOL

On 9/29/2019 at 4:24 AM, JonasVE12 said:

My question is a bit more nuanced. My goal is gaining weight. I struggle to do that, so I try to lean more towards calorie dense food. I then don’t look at nutrient density, because my priorities lie in gaining weight. But still I want to make sure I don’t neglect my health. So that’s why I’m asking it would be enough to take supplements, you know. I don’t know why people say that supplements are inherently no substitute for real food. I see where that is coming from, but I would think that if my current diet lacks certain nutrients that is can get from supplements, then it does substitute for real foods. But anyways, I’ll go eat more healthy foods. 

There is a time and a place for supplements and 9 out of 10 people don't use them the right way and also prefer to get there nutrition from a simple diet and a lot of supplements when in reality they could go shopping and get all the foods needed to support there body. Believe it or not real bodybuilders know more about healthy diet then most dietitians ( buy real bodybuilder I mean competitive professional career based) and I promise you the skinnier and the younger the person the more supplements they own and the bigger and the older the person the less supplements they have but the Fuller the refrigerator is. 

Look at this way if you want to build a house out of bricks and you have 15 workers the only one wheelbarrow it's going to take awhile to build that house if everybody's got to share the wheelbarrow but if there's 15 wheel barrels or better yet 20 wheelbarrows then that house is going to get built way faster and this is how your body works if you don't have an excess amount of micro and Macro Nutrients is all your body's going to do is prepare the damage not adding extra muscle and in some cases not even burn fat but if you have a consistent excess amount of nutrients in the body then your body says "hey we can adapt to the Lifestyle by adding more muscle cuz we got plenty of food"

Pretty much the only supplements I recommend is 

#1 whey isolate because it digests very fast and can someone Shake directly after your workout Tanakh your body from catabolic back into anabolic as fast as possible this works better than food in this particular scenario because your digestive tract is comatose after workout and so if you eat a steak it's going to sit there for hours while you stay catabolic which is not good but the protein shake being easily absorbed will shock your body back in anabolic.

#2 BCAA's are the building blocks of your muscles and making sure that you have a balanced amount of them in your system Cuts back on house or you'll be increases your recovery and it's General all around absolutely crucial for building muscle

I drink it all throughout the day in my 1gal jug.