How to conquer fear of death on psychedelics?

[cle103]

Hey guys, to ask this question properly I have to give you some background. 

 

About a year ago I had the following vision on one of my AL-LAD trips:

"I" wanted to become enlightened but couldn't "do" it. There was frustration as there was no breakthrough. Then I had the vision of multiple beings around me. Most distinctly I can remember Eckhart Tolle (also there was Adyashanti and some others). They were all looking at me very seriously. Not in a bad way. More like, the play time is over. In an instance I understood what they meant. 

If you want to be enlightened, "you" have to die. I intuitively understood this however I could not surrender enough that time. 

Forward to last trip (couple weeks ago) and for the first time I had a proper panic attack on mushrooms. 

During the last months there were multiple breakthroughs to God consciousness however there was never pure panic. 

My body/mind freaked out because the mushrooms came on SO fast (normally they take 30 minutes... that time it was more like 3). My heart was beating out of control for multiple minutes. It was naked fear (of death). 

Here is the thing: I know I need to surrender to death. I also know that psychedelics are most likely the way. HOWEVER I am really concerned that the body dies as well. I think I've broken through enough times that I could surrender to death however I still want to come back and live life. This is more of a health concern. 

I have to admit, at the moment I am bit scared of tripping. 

To the more experienced trippers: What would be your recommendation? Maybe a trip sitter (I've done about 20 solo trips thus far)?

 

Much Love ❤️️

[Gili Trawangan]

I've posted a thread where I briefly describe my process of death on psychedelics, you might find it useful. It's called "Awakening to Infinite Love", I don't know how to post a link to it here but you can find it, it's very recent.

[AncestorOfAisle6]

My experience is that when you "break through", ego death and all. There is no you to die. Just eternal consciensness. The fear is just gone then and seems silly. But it gets back when ego return. Albeit a little less.

I guess you need to be non dual all the time

[Forestluv]

@cle103 There seems to be two desires. One desire is to attain a state you have created called "ego death" and another desire to avoid this "ego death" state. It's a dualistic control issue. There will be internal conflict and resistance as long as there is an "ego death" vs "non-ego death" duality. At the deeper level there is transcendence of this duality. 

[cle103]

First of all, thank you! 

2 hours ago, Jg17 said:

To be able to accept that experience (I.e. not call an ambulance) while one is convinced one is dying must mean one is literally willing to risk bodily death, which seems suicidal. But that isn’t what we are doing here. 

Exactly! That's the issue...

 

@Gili Trawangan Thank you! 

I found it: 

 

@AncestorOfAisle6 Easier said then done  Even after the panic attack I broke through to full on Nonduality however I came back from it. And here I am... afraid that my body dies and I cannot come back to live and love this dimension of Life. 
 

@Serotoninluv I've felt the resistance and it's icky. Every breakthrough before that was smooth sailing. Only this one was rough and rapid. I am aware of the two sides inside of me. It took "me" by surprise how radical the shift is... so the ego puts up a fight. What would be your pointer to resolve this? 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, cle103 said:

@Serotoninluv I've felt the resistance and it's icky. Every breakthrough before that was smooth sailing. Only this one was rough and rapid. I am aware of the two sides inside of me. It took "me" by surprise how radical the shift is... so the ego puts up a fight. What would be your pointer to resolve this? 

My mind and body has gone through a similar dynamic of anxiety and resistance. It's uncomfortable, yet it is what it is. I suppose one can try to relax the mind and body. It can be resistance to what the mind and body perceives as an uncertain threat. Yet I've also found that at times I am desiring/seeking a conscious state. There is desire to attain something, somewhere. At times, there is mind and body resistance against seeking a conscious state. It could be that the mind/body needs to recover, integrate or have sober awakenings of Now. 

Part of psychedelic experience and wisdom is the intuition of knowing when to trip and what dosage. These days, I only trip when my mind, body and spirit are all aligned and say "yes, now is the time". It is spontaneous and I never know when it will surface. There was a period I was doing 5-meo daily because mind, body and spirit was aligned. Yet I haven't tripped for four months because mind, body and spirit haven't been aligned. All three components haven't felt right about it. I no longer try to convince one component it's right. That was part of my resistance and anxiety. For example, my mind and spirit feel a calling, yet my body doesn't quite feel right about it. So I don't do it. . . When will I trip next? Who knows - maybe tonight, maybe next week, maybe next year. . . 

[peanutspathtotruth]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Part of psychedelic experience and wisdom is the intuition of knowing when to trip and how much. These days, I only trip when my mind, body and spirit are all aligned and say "yes, now is the time". It is spontaneous and I never know when it will surface. There was a period I was doing 5-meo daily because mind, body and spirit was aligned. Yet I haven't tripped for four months because mind, body and spirit haven't been aligned. All three components haven't felt right about it. I know longer try to convince one component it's right. That was part of my resistance and anxiety. For example, the mind and spirit felt a calling, yet my body didn't quite feel right about it. So I don't do it. . . When will I trip next? Who knows - maybe tonight, maybe next week, maybe next year. . . 

That is sooo important and helpful! It really is crucial to be completely honest and to feel totally aligned before tripping. I had to learn this the hard way. Yes, sometimes you want to "grow fast, go deeper". But you might have to take a break for a couple of months. Integrate. Do more practices. Get lost, whatever. To recognize that is a responsibility and a respect towards these substances which is even required, I feel, to healthily use them. 

@cle103 What I learned during my last trips is this: You have to face physical death. You have to accept that you might die and not come back. That there might be a health risk and there's actually danger is most often the mind using its tricks to get you to believe in it. To not let it go completely. When I said: Okay, I seem to actually die right now. My heart might stop now. It's okay. If that's what is, then that's what is. - only then could I go deeper. It's a sacrifice. A mental sacrifice. Because that's what the body is. That's what the fear of death is. It's mental, conceptual, illusory. It all has to go. I would have never thought I would actually find mysefl at the brink of dying while tripping. But that's what you gotta face ultimately.

[cle103]

@Serotoninluv Thank you! This was tremendously helpful. Have you gone through the anxiety/resistance completely? 

@peanutspathtotruth Man, thank you. I know I have to face death. I am just afraid of it as it feels so fucking real. Maybe good Ol' Terence said it best: Mushrooms cannot kill you... they can only convince you that they can kill you. 

I am also aware that death is a joke. Just not in my day to day life. Here I fear suffering... not only for "me"... but more for my loved ones. Ego is a sneaky fella.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, cle103 said:

@Serotoninluv Have you gone through the anxiety/resistance completely? 

My mind and body still experiences anxiety/resistance. Yet there is another awakening in this dynamic. . . 

Last May, I did 5-meo daily for about three weeks and went through what you seem to be describing. There was the anxiety of "ego death" prior to, and during, each trip. After about 7 consecutive days, there was another form of "ego death" that arose while sober. I was losing my mind sober and I went through a sober ego death. I was at the interface of sanity and insanity while sober and was unable to regain my sanity while sober. This was a whole new level of anxiety and it got really intense. I realized that if I continued, I was surrendering all. Not just surrendering for a 4hr trip. I was surrendering my mind, sanity, career, family, friends - everything. I may go into a coma, a psychiatric ward, and have permanent brain damage. I continued. . . The next trip, I was gone. Permanently. Zero anxiety, fear, resistance. No personality. Not just during the trip. Sober as well. Absolute clarity. All day and night. No contextualizations or experiences. The "it". . . .After about 10 days, there was no longer any difference between 5-meo and no 5-meo. I would sit on my cushion and didn't even know if I had ingested the 5-meo yet. After 24 days, I stopped the 5-meo and this trans-human consciousness continued for another few days. . . .Then one day there was an odd thought/feeling that I didn't know what it was - yet it felt vaguely familiar - like a vague recollection of a past life. I was curious and tried to get in touch with it. . The vagueness started to come into focus and then the realization. . . I was perceiving another person that I saw as different than myself. I then remembered what this was, it was that thing called "self". Then more appearances of self. . . Then the anxiety and resistance. But now, the anxiety was not due to loss of self,  it was due to the return of self. "I was like noooooo.. . . . ". And I realized the root of anxiety, resistance, suffering from the other side. . . Two days later, a ringing sound started in my head - as loud as a smoke detector. I couldn't make it stop and felt it would last forever. More intense anxiety into panic. Plus, I had lost my enlightened state which intensified it. The blaring in my head continued for days and I couldn't sleep or function. It was like a non-stop ego death of anxiety and panic. There came a point in which absolute peace revealed itself. My mind and body was in full-on anxiety and panic. . . and there was absolute peace as well. In that moment of panic and terror, there was peace. There was also realization that I was just as enlightened as that suffering terror-filled self as I was as that transcendent consciousness beyond self. Full circle. . . Since then, there have been times of mild mind and body anxiety. I don't like experiencing anxiety and I take action to relieve it. Yet that deeper underlying absolute peace is eternally present - even when anxiety is present. . . 

[cle103]

@Serotoninluv That's intense! Thank you so much for sharing. 

This work ain't child play. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

@Serotoninluv Wow...
 

4 minutes ago, cle103 said:

This work ain't child play. 

For real...

[Forestluv]

13 minutes ago, cle103 said:

@Serotoninluv That's intense! Thank you so much for sharing. 

This work ain't child play. 

I forgot to mention. . . Be kind to your mind and body. There was an insight at one point that I should stop for the wellness of my mind and body - but I was no longer attached/identified to a mind and body and I didn't listen. I later learned to listen. . . 

As well, I haven't tripped since that ordeal. I don't know if the identification and immersion into anxiety would return while tripping. 

[Aeris]

35 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

My mind and body still experiences anxiety/resistance. Yet there is another awakening in this dynamic. . . 

Last May, I did 5-meo daily for about three weeks and went through what you seem to be describing. There was the anxiety of "ego death" prior to, and during, each trip. After about 7 consecutive days, there was another form of "ego death" that arose while sober. I was losing my mind sober and I went through a sober ego death. I was at the interface of sanity and insanity while sober and was unable to regain my sanity while sober. This was a whole new level of anxiety and it got really intense. I realized that if I continued, I was surrendering all. Not just surrendering for a 4hr trip. I was surrendering my mind, sanity, career, family, friends - everything. I may go into a coma, a psychiatric ward, and have permanent brain damage. I continued. . . The next trip, I was gone. Permanently. Zero anxiety, fear, resistance. No personality. Not just during the trip. Sober as well. Absolute clarity. All day and night. No contextualizations or experiences. The "it". . . .After about 10 days, there was no longer any difference between 5-meo and no 5-meo. I would sit on my cushion and didn't even know if I had ingested the 5-meo yet. After 24 days, I stopped the 5-meo and this trans-human consciousness continued for another few days. . . .Then one day there was an odd thought/feeling that I didn't know what it was - yet it felt vaguely familiar - like a vague recollection of a past life. I was curious and tried to get in touch with it. . The vagueness started to come into focus and then the realization. . . I was perceiving another person that I saw as different than myself. I then remembered what this was, it was that thing called "self". Then more appearances of self. . . Then the anxiety and resistance. But now, the anxiety was not due to loss of self,  it was due to the return of self. "I was like noooooo.. . . . ". And I realized the root of anxiety, resistance, suffering from the other side. . . Two days later, a ringing sound started in my head - as loud as a smoke detector. I couldn't make it stop and felt it would last forever. More intense anxiety into panic. Plus, I had lost my enlightened state which intensified it. The blaring in my head continued for days and I couldn't sleep or function. It was like a non-stop ego death of anxiety and panic. A couple times, there were thoughts of killing myself as that was the only way I could make it stop. There came a point in which absolute peace revealed itself. My mind and body was in full-on anxiety and panic. . . and there was absolute peace as well. In that moment of panic and terror, there was peace. There was also realization that I was just as enlightened as that suffering terror-filled self as I was when I transcendent consciousness beyond self. Full circle. . . Since then, there have been times of mind and body anxiety. I don't like experiencing anxiety and I take action to relieve it. Yet that deeper underlying absolute peace remains - even when anxiety is present. 

can kind of relate, aside I was feeling insane after my 2 weeks of "micro/mid cro/ and 120ù /lsd"

I don't know how much it was, but I got 5g of mushroom / 400u of LSD, and I took it almost everyday alone for 2 weeks.

I meditate on music while on LSD and contemplating leo thought/video

then I got MANY anxiety, and many kind of things like you, but now, even in the middle of the battlefield I m very calm, I've always been even before all that.

all internet call'd it kundalini.

I was feeling dead, then beauty, and an extreme feeling of well being that stayed for two weeks ( even sober of everything, including weed )

it was so awesome, I don't know what it was, like a paradigm shift then.

I m still go back to my old ego, but it sound like I already experienced a little death for "real".

 

[peanutspathtotruth]

@Serotoninluv So did you do what you just described four months ago? And since then, you stopped? I tripped quite regularly these last 3-4 weeks, and there's also concerns bubbling up. Even guilt of overdoing it. Just another thing to contemplate I guess. It's tricky sometimes to assess if you should continue or not.

[cle103]

@Serotoninluv Got it. Thank you!

[abrakamowse]

This topic is very very helpful. And eye-opening.

[Forestluv]

14 minutes ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

@Serotoninluv So did you do what you just described four months ago? And since then, you stopped? I tripped quite regularly these last 3-4 weeks, and there's also concerns bubbling up. Even guilt of overdoing it. Just another thing to contemplate I guess. It's tricky sometimes to assess if you should continue or not.

Yes. I did the 5-meo retreat last May and stopped the first week in June. I haven't tripped since (except for a couple microdoses below threshold). I become destabalized and needed time to integrate things. It's been a good break. I would say the biggest benefit was that some insights that were out of reach have become embodied. In some ways this is good, yet it's also more challenging to communicate this stuff with people. Facets that were out of my reach a year ago are now part of my normal perception/consciousness. A lot of it no longer feels "novel" or "special", yet it is still "out there" for normies and I need to be careful how I communicate with others. 

[peanutspathtotruth]

30 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yes. I did the 5-meo retreat last May and stopped the first week in June. I haven't tripped since (except for a couple microdoses below threshold). I become destabalized and needed time to integrate things. It's been a good break. I would say the biggest benefit was that some insights that were out of reach have become embodied. In some ways this is good, yet it's also more challenging to communicate this stuff with people. Facets that were out of my reach a year ago are now part of my normal perception/consciousness. A lot of it no longer feels "novel" or "special", yet it is still "out there" for normies and I need to be careful how I communicate with others. 

Super interesting. Thank you for sharing all this!  

[Nahm]

7 hours ago, cle103 said:

"you"

 

7 hours ago, cle103 said:

the body dies

 

7 hours ago, cle103 said:

I still want to come back and live life. This is more of a health concern. 

Understandable fears, and daily meditation combined with writing these things on a dry erase board, and going Sherlock Holmes on why & when you started believing those thoughts is very powerful. 

 

@Serotoninluv??

[mandyjw]

39 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yes. I did the 5-meo retreat last May and stopped the first week in June. I haven't tripped since (except for a couple microdoses below threshold). I become destabalized and needed time to integrate things. It's been a good break. I would say the biggest benefit was that some insights that were out of reach have become embodied. In some ways this is good, yet it's also more challenging to communicate this stuff with people. Facets that were out of my reach a year ago are now part of my normal perception/consciousness. A lot of it no longer feels "novel" or "special", yet it is still "out there" for normies and I need to be careful how I communicate with others. 

You know the cliche, "God doesn't give you more than you can handle?"  I wonder if it applies to awakenings and trips. How did the ear ringing resolve, did you find a reason behind why that happened? 

@cle103 I'm not sure if this suggestion is helpful but I thought I would through it out there. I had an awakening without the use of psychedelics, following it I had a lot on my plate to integrate. When I felt the need to I tried on a few occasions to go on literal trips that scared me. Going into the woods in the middle of the night, that sort of thing. The whole theme before and after was dealing with fear. It presented in some pretty strange ways. If you have sort of tied together in your mind psychedelics and fear it may help to separate the two. Just be smart and stay safe.