Mark my words; Trump 2020 is a real possibility

[outlandish]

On 9/26/2019 at 2:50 AM, Robi Steel said:

 

its not all bad btw

It's not a good thing that Trump has been cozying up to Dictators like Kim Jong-un. It gives the state and leadership of N Korea an air of legitimacy and acceptance on the world stage that they have been seeking for decades, and for no progress on the human rights, liberties, or world security front. He's essentially patting them on the head and saying good job, I like you.

Meanwhile he distances himself from democracy, the media, and international discourse on global challenges.

edit: I agree that Trump 2020 is a real possibility. The opposition is going to have to work their ass off, fight hard, mobilize, and unite like never before if they want to win the next election.

[Robi Steel]

19 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

 

And which of those do you see as a "greater evil" than Trump? 

Well, youre right, not for me personally. 

[Robi Steel]

17 hours ago, outlandish said:

It's not a good thing that Trump has been cozying up to Dictators like Kim Jong-un. It gives the state and leadership of N Korea an air of legitimacy and acceptance on the world stage that they have been seeking for decades, and for no progress on the human rights, liberties, or world security front. He's essentially patting them on the head and saying good job, I like you.

Meanwhile he distances himself from democracy, the media, and international discourse on global challenges.

edit: I agree that Trump 2020 is a real possibility. The opposition is going to have to work their ass off, fight hard, mobilize, and unite like never before if they want to win the next election.

Well, I disagree. This is the only way the north korean goverment  will get over their ego for once. There is absolutely no point in just ignoring evil and looking away from it. There is no point in overthrowing the government and saving the world once again. It is about solving north korea from the inside, lifitng up more people and liberties. 

The more we show the goodness in our heart and willingness to cooperate. The more it will reflect in their heart. The less justification they have. 

[avilo]

20 hours ago, outlandish said:

It's not a good thing that Trump has been cozying up to Dictators like Kim Jong-un. It gives the state and leadership of N Korea an air of legitimacy and acceptance on the world stage that they have been seeking for decades, and for no progress on the human rights, liberties, or world security front. He's essentially patting them on the head and saying good job, I like you.

Meanwhile he distances himself from democracy, the media, and international discourse on global challenges.

edit: I agree that Trump 2020 is a real possibility. The opposition is going to have to work their ass off, fight hard, mobilize, and unite like never before if they want to win the next election.

 

There you go, this needs to be called out more because some people think what the US is doing with north korea is good, it's not at all, nobody living in the dictatorships trump is supporting would agree that trump is doing a good job

[abundance]

On 9/26/2019 at 8:26 AM, Leo Gura said:

The democrats HAVE found ground and they have made a ton of serious policy proposals. Trump has no serious policy proposals other than anti-immigrant ones.

Don't be making false equivalencies.

The democrats have some of the best and most progressive candidates running in the history of the US. What more do you want? George Washington to crawl out of his grave and join the democratic debates? As soon as he learns about Trump he would crawl back into his grave and stay there.

If people are stupid enough to vote for Trump a second time, nothing can save us. That ain't the democrats fault.

Unfortunately I dont think the Demotratic establishment will allow a true progressive to win the nomination. They are more comfortable with the idea of another 4 years of Trump than to allow someone like Bernie or even Warren to win. And with that strategy Trump is almost guaranteed to get another 4 years. 

I truly fear for the planet if Trump gets elected another 4 years. 

[Forestluv]

On 9/28/2019 at 8:25 AM, Robi Steel said:

Well, I disagree. This is the only way the north korean goverment  will get over their ego for once. There is absolutely no point in just ignoring evil and looking away from it. There is no point in overthrowing the government and saving the world once again. It is about solving north korea from the inside, lifitng up more people and liberties. 

The more we show the goodness in our heart and willingness to cooperate. The more it will reflect in their heart. The less justification they have. 

No one is advocating a zero diplomacy policy with North Korea. It’s not a good thing for Trump to be cozying up to dictators like jong, Putin and MbS. This sends the wrong message and leads to decay of democratic systems. Dictators that can act oppressively without consequence will be emboldened - as we are seeing now. 

You say there is no point in just ignoring evil and walking away from it. That is exactly what Trump has done with jong, Putin and MbS. He has even tacitly supported the evil at times.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, abundance said:

Unfortunately I dont think the Demotratic establishment will allow a true progressive to win the nomination. They are more comfortable with the idea of another 4 years of Trump than to allow someone like Bernie or even Warren to win. And with that strategy Trump is almost guaranteed to get another 4 years. 

I truly fear for the planet if Trump gets elected another 4 years. 

All that's required is for people to go out and vote.

There's a good chance Biden will crash by the time primary voting happens. Most people are not paying attention yet. Warren and Bernie both have good chances of beating Biden.

This is exactly how democracy should work. Lots of good candidates to choose from.

[CreamCat]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is exactly how democracy should work. Lots of good candidates to choose from.

I want more than a democracy in a nation. I want more nations to choose from and live in along with more good candidates in a given country.

The cost of migration can go down substantially.

On top of that, I also want more good candidates for style of governance other than democracy.

More good candidates in a given style of governance + more good candidates for countries to live in + more good styles of governance in the universe = Killer combination

Our standards of governance can go up dramatically.

An idea for improving democracy is asynchronous democracy where voting happens asynchronously and thus more efficiently. In an asynchronous democracy, you would get a text message reading

Quote

Hey, it's been two years since you last voted for Bernie. Would you vote for Bernie again or choose someone else?

We assume that your support for Bernie continues if you don't vote again. You can change your vote when it's convenient for you. Once you vote again, your vote lasts for another 2 years.

Have a nice day.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by CreamCat

[Leo Gura]

56 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

I want more than a democracy in a nation. I want more nations to choose from and live in along with more good candidates in a given country.

Then get off your ass and create it.

Government doesn't grow on trees.

[Zega]

His supporters are unyielding.

Anything is possible.

[CreamCat]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Government doesn't grow on trees.

Quality doesn't grow on trees. Low quality governments grow out of nothing.

Unfortunately, my life purpose is not in governance. I just wanted to push out ideas that people were not aware of before.

But, if I happen to create any private organization, I may apply asynchronous democracy or something like it to the organization. That way, my ideas can grow organically. I like making things happen opportunistically and asynchronously.

Edited September 30, 2019 by CreamCat

[Andrew Rogers]

Possible? I think it is inevitable. Democrats have driven themselves into a death-spiral, i.e. they make fools of themselves by proposing stupid policies, their rating drops, so they make even more stupid policies to attract voters, rating drop again and so it goes until they will have no viable voter base left.

In 2016 lots of people really believed that Trump was a monster, that he will start new war or something, they now they realize, that they have been had by the democrats ( which makes them angry at the dems ) and they see that Trump is a reasonable guy - so they will vote for him this time.

[Skanzi]

Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if Trump is re-elected. I'm not saying i'm necessarily supporting him either, but I do think Trump puts up a very entertaining show. I would almost have him be the president again for the comedy-factor. But then again, there are valid counter-arguments as to why I wouldn't want Trump to be president any longer.

I'm not really a chooser.  I'll simply let existence take its course and try to surrender myself to that. It's not up to me to push my opinions or ideas onto others.

[Forestluv]

44 minutes ago, Skanzi said:

Honestly, I wouldn't even mind if Trump is re-elected. I'm not saying i'm necessarily supporting him either, but I do think Trump puts up a very entertaining show.

I think there is actually something to this. Trump is good for ratings - he knows it, promotes it and exploits it. Trump's reality show presidency can complete with sporting events, Game of Thrones etc. From a certain Orange level perspective, there is value in this and it helped Trump get elected. . . The reality show presidency doesn't need to be all peaches and cream. That would actually reduce ratings. Imagine if Game of Thrones was all positive. Everything worked smoothly and everyone was in harmony. No tension or conflict. The show would bomb. Just like all the conflict and drama helps GoT in the ratings. all the conflict and drama in Trump's presidency helps the ratings of his reality TV presidency. It's an unfortunate aspect of  red/Orange. It's one reason Trump is a conflict magnet.  

[Apparition of Jack]

@Serotoninluv This is only applicable if you're watching Trump's spectacle from the comfort of wealth and privilege though. If Trump's rhetoric has forced you to work 60 hours a week to survive or causes a gunmam to go and kill your brother and 20 other people in a mass shooting, then you're really not going to care about his entertainment value. 

[Andrew Rogers]

24 minutes ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Serotoninluv This is only applicable if you're watching Trump's spectacle from the comfort of wealth and privilege though. If Trump's rhetoric has forced you to work 60 hours a week to survive or causes a gunmam to go and kill your brother and 20 other people in a mass shooting, then you're really not going to care about his entertainment value. 

Could you be more specific on that? Sounds like a leftist propaganda. Trump has brought back lots of jobs from overseas ( well, at the expense of raising the price of goods, but that's another story ).

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Apparition of Jack said:

@Serotoninluv This is only applicable if you're watching Trump's spectacle from the comfort of wealth and privilege though. If Trump's rhetoric has forced you to work 60 hours a week to survive or causes a gunmam to go and kill your brother and 20 other people in a mass shooting, then you're really not going to care about his entertainment value. 

I would say this is only one variable. Yet it is not only for the wealthy and privileged. Anyone that is perceives themselves as benefiting from Trump could also be mesmerized by the reality TV show. Look at a Trump rally. . .  Conflict, drama, rage, us vs. them.

As you mentioned, those that are suffering in Trump's reality TV show will won't out. Caged children on the border are not going to be into it. As well, some people will get sick of watching a gruesome demented reality TV show and will want it to stop. That is all part of the drama and conflict.  . . 

[CreamCat]

6 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Caged children on the border

As far as I know, it's not just children but also adults. The vast majority in the cage were young adults.

By the way, USA is still on the humane side.

Manila is worse.

If they came to my country, my people would cry for deportation. My people almost deported hundreds of muslim war refugees because our women were afraid of gang rape. They were worried about sharia law and no-go zones.

Edited October 1, 2019 by CreamCat

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, CreamCat said:

As far as I know, it's not just children but also adults. The vast majority in the cage were young adults.

Yes, adults too. In crowded unsanitary conditions. It is especially traumatic to children that are separated from their parents and kept in cages. It is child abuse. 

[CreamCat]

5 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yes, adults too. In crowded unsanitary conditions. It is especially traumatic to children that are separated from their parents and kept in cages. It is child abuse. 

I read that trump stopped separating children from their parents after being criticized by many people.

It can also be considered as parent abuse. It's two sides of the same coin.

But, it can still be more traumatic to children because children without their parents are more susceptible to adult bullies.

In manila prisons, adult bullies beat orphans.

I think the biggest problem is adult bullies. You can avoid disease. But, it is hard to avoid bullies in small spaces.

Sometimes, guards are the adult bullies.

Edited October 1, 2019 by CreamCat