Ralston on Confusing States for Consciousness

[Truth Addict]

@zeroISinfinity

You don't know shit, you're just projecting, and you're going to the 'Ignored Users' list.

[mandyjw]

8 hours ago, kieranperez said:

To be more specific, using stories to create a cosmology around an experience that wasn’t actually say one of truth realization. Example: having an out of body experience and then creating a whole story about how you now know the nature of consciousness, enlightenment, reality, etc. To be succinct, it’s where the “knowledge”, as if, came. It’s the difference between if I met the real Leo Gura in Las Vegas and hung out with him for say 2 years and got to know you from you vs. just inventing an entire narrative only from watching your videos. Of course, in this example, my encounter with you in person would still be interpreted through mind, that is still nonetheless a nore genuine understanding interpreted via mind based on a direct experience of the matter rather than just fabricating something purely and solely from mind. 

What would happen if you got so lost in the story and so consumed by it that there was so longer a story of you, or a story of an experience "you" had or any separate stories at all, that there was no one to listen to the story or tell the story, or write the story? What would happen if you realized you were the story itself? 

You are Little Red Riding Hood, Grandma, the wolf and the hunter both in truth and in fiction. 

The story is such complete and utter BS that it's TRUE!!! The only one who can think the story is just a story is the person who thinks that he himself is REAL! 

Do you realize how fucking terrifying and disorienting that would be? Not being able to tell your life from a story, being permanently on a psychedelic trip? 

That's what loss of self really means.

You are afraid of the story. 

 

[peanutspathtotruth]

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

What would happen if you got so lost in the story and so consumed by it that there was so longer a story of you, or a story of an experience "you" had or any separate stories at all, that there was no one to listen to the story or tell the story, or write the story? What would happen if you realized you were the story itself? 

You are Little Red Riding Hood, Grandma, the wolf and the hunter both in truth and in fiction. 

The story is such complete and utter BS that it's TRUE!!! The only one who can think the story is just a story is the person who thinks that he himself is REAL! 

Do you realize how fucking terrifying and disorienting that would be? Not being able to tell your life from a story, being permanently on a psychedelic trip? 

That's what loss of self really means.

You are afraid of the story. 

 

Beautiful ❤️

[SoonHei]

8 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

They're telling you to stop chasing enlightenment, because it's already the case.

@kieranperez
enlightenment = finding your glasses which were already on your face and thru which you were looking thru.

 

what trying to find them in your room (while wearing them) what must one do to eventually realize they were already on their face? is it clapping twice? is it watching tv? is it breathing deeply?

 

note that one can realize that the glasses are on his face during any of these activities... and not just ONE of them. 

 

same case for enlightenment... it can happen many ways.

but as leo said, watching cartoons leading to enlightenment will be lesser "chance" than doing practices / 5meo etc... 

 

another thing you might have heard is to STOP SEEKING and you will arrive...

that can be understood as you finally sitting down after having searched your entire room for the glasses and when you sit back in the sofa and aren't "looking" for the glasses anymore, you realize and see that you're looking right at them (and were overlooking thru them) the whole time!

 

so find the glasses on your face... but stopping to look for them.

KNOW that you already are the WHOLE, confused that it is the part searching for the WHOLE.

 

GOD gets enlightened that he is already and was always God

the one searching will not get enlightened

this means you are not the one searching

you're watching the one who is searching

and the one who is searching, is searching for YOU (the one who is watching the search)

 

[Consilience]

I feel like I understand the Intent of Ralston’s message here but it feels inappropriate to not acknowledge that some states of experience are more conducive towards existential realizations than others. Perhaps I misunderstand how to contemplate from his perspective but... yeah. For example, focus is HUGE. Good luck realizing your true nature if your attention is continually dragged away from one thought to the next. Why is this not acknowledged? I don’t know. 

[DrewNows]

@Consilience I see it his point is to get across how the human mind likes to pin down enlightenment as a state of being, fantasizing about how to get There when it’s really Here and always has been 

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, mandyjw said:

What would happen if you got so lost in the story and so consumed by it that there was so longer a story of you, or a story of an experience "you" had or any separate stories at all, that there was no one to listen to the story or tell the story, or write the story? What would happen if you realized you were the story itself? 

You are Little Red Riding Hood, Grandma, the wolf and the hunter both in truth and in fiction. 

The story is such complete and utter BS that it's TRUE!!! The only one who can think the story is just a story is the person who thinks that he himself is REAL! 

Do you realize how fucking terrifying and disorienting that would be? Not being able to tell your life from a story, being permanently on a psychedelic trip? 

That's what loss of self really means.

You are afraid of the story. 

 

Damn that’s beautiful! ♥️

[zeroISinfinity]

@DrewNows Man You have no idea yet, you have no idea. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

It's Just Pure ecstasy. While I am typing I really can't breath normally. OMG

[lmfao]

Experiencing different states of conciousness should help you get enlightened. It may be technically possible to just "be aware" right now and be "100% enlightened" without any prior practice. But it's unlikely. Just practicing awareness of any and all aspects of your experience is what is needed, hence yoga and meditation. 

@Leo Gura What age do you think it's fine to start taking psychedelics? If someone is 19, how long should they wait to take? 

 

[DrewNows]

32 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

 

@DrewNows Man You have no idea yet, you have no idea. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

 

How do you know? 

33 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

While I am typing I really can't breath normally. OMG

Sounds like an upper circulatory problem ?

[zeroISinfinity]

@DrewNows ❤️❤️❤️❤️

Yeah maybe it is because of THIS. 

Lets Try ? together one day and see. 

I Just love You, love You all. 

[Matt8800]

16 hours ago, kieranperez said:

I want to preface this by mentioning that MANY masters are known for acting (and that is a keyword... keep in mind, he’s acting to get something across) like this and being much MUCH more brutal and real to get points across. Zen masters for example are known for playing the theatric of being extremely brutal and harsh to shock you deep enough to get you to drop fantasies, acts, games one may be playing, etc. 

I bring this up because I see time and time and time and time and time again on here, people who project fantasies of what they think enlightened people SHOULD be like in their minds. Truly free  “people” no longer operate or play under that distinction. 

@kieranperez Ive heard of Zen masters hitting people on the head with a stick if they move while meditating. When I heard that, I wondered what I would do. Knowing me, I would most likely stand up, smile at them, take the stick from their hand and smack them on the head. Then I would smile at them and see if they can smile back at me and master their ego at the same level as me or if they would lose their shit. If he can smile back, I would have no problem whatsoever with him hitting me in the head. My suspicion is they would lose their shit, which would mean to me that they would not fit to be my mentor. What that would tell me is that maybe the student should be the teacher and the teacher should be the student.

If I was in one of Ralston's meetings and he was projecting "aggressive" energy, I would probably have the same stance simply out of pure fascination to see if he could control his ego at the same level that I could control mine. If he is as enlightened as he says he is, as you suggest, he wouldnt be attached to what people SHOULD be like, right?

People tend to not act like that to me though, even if they treat others that way. Ive never quite put my finger on why, they just dont. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Matt8800

[kieranperez]

28 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@kieranperez Ive heard of Zen masters hitting people on the head with a stick if they move while meditating. When I heard that, I wondered what I would do. Knowing me, I would most likely stand up, smile at them, take the stick from their hand and smack them on the head. Then I would smile at them and see if they can smile back at me and master their ego at the same level as me or if they would lose their shit. If he can smile back, I would have no problem whatsoever with him hitting me in the head. My suspicion is they would lose their shit, which would mean to me that they would not fit to be my mentor. What that would tell me is that maybe the student should be the teacher and the teacher should be the student.

If I was in one of Ralston's meetings and he was projecting "aggressive" energy, I would probably have the same stance simply out of pure fascination to see if he could control his ego at the same level that I could control mine. If he is as enlightened as he says he is, as you suggest, he wouldnt be attached to what people SHOULD be like, right?

People tend to not act like that to me though, even if they treat others that way. Ive never quite put my finger on why, they just dont. 

You seem to misunderstand what that stick is used for. It isn’t to berate monks. They hit them in a certain spot in their shoulder that helps wake up their nervous system. There’s a tendency for Zen monks to really enjoy the stick because it really helps them and actually feels good. Zen is a very stoic flavor of spirituality. Ain’t nothing wrong with it and in fact, I see something admirable about people who thrive in such environments. It really shows how free one really is. It’s easy to be free in a cuddly friendly spiritual fantasy condoning environment. Again, it ain’t for everyone. Nor is it meant to be.

You seem to be interpreting Ralston’s acting for projecting. Ralston has a very authentic Zen take in yet still being indepdent from all tradition . If you don’t vibe with that, that’s fine. If you have some qualm with it, that’s about you. Ralston is a very intense guy. Probably goes hand in hand with being one of the best martial artists of the 20th century. He’s not a cuddly spiritual teacher. Hes ruthlessly real with people and he’s actually backed off in recent years given the new younger generation. Back in the 80s and 90s that was no problem. You also have to understand that he’s acting. He’s not actually angry. It’s a theatric to wake people up out of their shit. In a sense it’s no different than an intense psychedelic that completely overwhelms your ego. Ralston isn’t one of those teachers that would appeal to modern young spiritual seekers for the most part unless you’re the kinda guy or girl that resonates with that ferrocity or can take it. All because it doesn’t resonate with you to diminish its value. 

[Matt8800]

1 hour ago, kieranperez said:

You seem to misunderstand what that stick is used for. It isn’t to berate monks. They hit them in a certain spot in their shoulder that helps wake up their nervous system. There’s a tendency for Zen monks to really enjoy the stick because it really helps them and actually feels good. Zen is a very stoic flavor of spirituality. Ain’t nothing wrong with it and in fact, I see something admirable about people who thrive in such environments. It really shows how free one really is. It’s easy to be free in a cuddly friendly spiritual fantasy condoning environment. Again, it ain’t for everyone. Nor is it meant to be.

You seem to be interpreting Ralston’s acting for projecting. Ralston has a very authentic Zen take in yet still being indepdent from all tradition . If you don’t vibe with that, that’s fine. If you have some qualm with it, that’s about you. Ralston is a very intense guy. Probably goes hand in hand with being one of the best martial artists of the 20th century. He’s not a cuddly spiritual teacher. Hes ruthlessly real with people and he’s actually backed off in recent years given the new younger generation. Back in the 80s and 90s that was no problem. You also have to understand that he’s acting. He’s not actually angry. It’s a theatric to wake people up out of their shit. In a sense it’s no different than an intense psychedelic that completely overwhelms your ego. Ralston isn’t one of those teachers that would appeal to modern young spiritual seekers for the most part unless you’re the kinda guy or girl that resonates with that ferrocity or can take it. All because it doesn’t resonate with you to diminish its value. 

I dont have any qualms about it in the least. Im an intense guy also. I am also the kind of guy who did MMA for six years, got my black belt, used to ride my motorcycle at 170, skydived, etc, etc, etc. He would just be him and I would just be me. If someone reflected his energy back at him and he kept his ego in check, then I would consider him worthy of being my mentor and I would give him permission to talk to me however he wants. I would totally respect him for that. If he couldnt keep his ego in check, well......

It goes against the concepts of non-duality to say something is OK for one person and not OK for another. Wouldnt Ralston say we are all one anyway?

To me, this smacks of inferiority complexes, which I have never participated in.

If a Zen master truly had his ego dissolved, why would he mind being the smackee rather than just the smacker?

At minimum, it would be an interesting experiment. I have a suspicion that many "enlightened" masters would reveal they had more shadow work that needs to be done 

For whatever its worth, I believe my attitude is one of the reasons why Hecate has shown such a fondness for me. i think it would be a mistake to assume I am "wrong" without investigating this thoroughly. 

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Matt8800

[Richard Alpert]

11 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

I dont have any qualms about it in the least. Im an intense guy also. I am also the kind of guy who did MMA for six years, got my black belt, used to ride my motorcycle at 170, skydived, etc, etc, etc. He would just be him and I would just be me. If someone reflected his energy back at him and he kept his ego in check, then I would consider him worthy of being my mentor and I would give him permission to talk to me however he wants. I would totally respect him for that. If he couldnt keep his ego in check, well......

It goes against the concepts of non-duality to say something is OK for one person and not OK for another. Wouldnt Ralston say we are all one anyway?

To me, this smacks of inferiority complexes, which I have never participated in.

If a Zen master truly had his ego dissolved, why would he mind being the smackee rather than just the smacker?

At minimum, it would be an interesting experiment. I have a suspicion that many "enlightened" masters would reveal they had more shadow work that needs to be done 

For whatever its worth, I believe my attitude is one of the reasons why Hecate has shown such a fondness for me. i think it would be a mistake to assume I am "wrong" without investigating this thoroughly. 

 

Never heard of gettting Blackbelt in mma, lol.

 

[Truth Addict]

@Matt8800 You're just propaganda.

[mindcentral]

I adore Ralston's work but I'm starting to wonder whether he's sufficiently aware that he's a freak of nature. It's hard to accept his dismissal of meditation and body practices etc. in relation to enlightenment when he had basically attained more body-mind mastery by the time he had his first enlightenment experience (when he was 21) than most normal people ever will.

EDIT: That said, the distinctions he makes between such practices and Truth are very valuable of course.

Edited September 27, 2019 by mindcentral
clarification

[Matt8800]

5 hours ago, Richard Alpert said:

Never heard of gettting Blackbelt in mma, lol.

 

@Richard Alpert The traditional style was Gung Fu but had a lot mixed into it. My teacher was taught by James DeMile. None of that is really relevant though.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Matt8800