How can we know its not all come from the brain?

[Nivsch]

Every new insight, every new feeling, every mystical experience CAN be explained by "neural changes" in the brain.

There are trillions of neural connections in the brain and every new change in some connections can bring with it a new feeling and new experience.

So how can we know the brain doesnt does it all?

Note: I DO want that the only-physical paradigm will collapse, but I can't get convinced this is the case.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Nivsch

[CreamCat]

I entered a state of not knowing. I don't know for certain that I am my brain.

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

Every new insight, every new feeling, every mystical experience CAN be explained by "neural changes" in the brain.

There are trillions of neural connections in the brain and every new change in some connections can bring with it a new feeling and new experience.

So how can we know the brain doesnt does it all?

Note: I DO want that the only-physical paradigm will collapse, but I can't get convinced this is the case.

Uh..are you aware of this or not? 

[Truth Addict]

We can't know, yet.

Awareness is a metaphor.

[Muhammad]

Think about that. awareness happens in the brain or does the brain happens within awareness? Does the brain exists in the world or does the world exists in the brain? 

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Nivsch said:

Note: I DO want that the only-physical paradigm will collapse, but I can't get convinced this is the case.

A "only-physical" paradigm is hard to maintain. Any 100% paradigm is hard to maintain. The tendency is to see in opposites. That is. . . if there is non-physical then I must reject physical. Which isn't the case. A simple example would be "I have a 100% tall people paradigm". The tendency to think in opposites would be "If everyone is tall, then that must mean nobody is tall and everyone is short. And I can't accept that!". . . This is the dilemma of all dualities. All black and white dualities collapse.

I'm not saying that physical is wrong and nonphysical is correct. Rather, just poke a whole in the 100% physical bubble and let 1% physical leak out. Going from 100% to 99% is an enormous jump. The jump from 100% to 99% is much larger than from 99% to 1%. 

Most people in the only-physical paradigm tend to like and respect science - because science tends to describe the physical word. Well. . . science has clearly revealed the nonphysical. Look into quantum mechanics - in particular superposition and entanglement. These are nonphysical realities. And it's not "pseudo science". Quantum mechanics has among the highest predictive power in all of science. QM has won noble prizes. It is rock solid science and it clearly shows nonphysical reality. QM alone should be able to knock you down from 100% physical to 99% physical. That crack can allow greater openmindedness and space for exploration. 

 

 

[Leo Gura]

The brain is a hallucination.

Do the work and see.

[LastThursday]

Have you cut open a brain? It's grey gooey mess. Is your conscious life a grey gooey mess? How do you go from one to the other? Hmm?

(I'd like to add, I'm not a serial killer).

Edited September 24, 2019 by LastThursday
Dark humour.

[Alex]

Fun little fact you can cut out any major part of the brain (cortex, amigdala, even one hemisphere) and still be concious just the content/ filter will be different, from that we can atleast infer that conciousnes does not reside anywhere in the brain just like it doesnt reside in your body. You can easily compare it to you missing one or more limbs while still experiencing almost the same reality.

[Pernani]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

Fun little fact you can cut out any major part of the brain (cortex, amigdala, even one hemisphere) and still be concious just the content/ filter will be different, from that we can atleast infer that conciousnes does not reside anywhere in the brain just like it doesnt reside in your body. You can easily compare it to you missing one or more limbs while still experiencing almost the same reality.

What kind of "experiments" were done to verify that lmao

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura Leo I saw the video when you talked about it and i think i understood your point there but now, as an answer it sounds to me as a bypassing.

Because you can answer this to every question in the world.

When you get wounded and it hearts, nerve cells are destroyed and you can see it trough microscope.

"All is just imagination" is oversimplification of the issue and escaping it.

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@Alex it is just the easy thing to assume to escape the issue.

As i said, I WANT that the reality will be more than physics, but can't find a claim to contradict it yet.

[Nivsch]

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

because science tends to describe the physical word. Well. . . science has clearly revealed the nonphysical. Look into quantum mechanics - in

But I read that Einstein opposed to niels bohr assumption. Einstein said "God doesn't play with cubes ... we just don't understand enough the whole mechanism due to our limited brains".

 

[Consilience]

Where do brains appear? Awareness

Where does the world appear? Awareness 

Where do mystical experiences occur? Awareness

The distinction you must make is form vs. formlessness. Notice that form (physical brian states) can only interact with more form (conscious experience). But equally notice, that form cannot directly interact or manipulate formlessness (awareness). Form is great at interacting and manipulating itself, the 6 sensations (sight, taste, touch, sound, smell, mind) are all this entangled amalgamation we call reality. What you have to become conscious off is formlessness and moreover, that this formlessness is not only the underlying nature of reality, but it exists a priori to ALL forms within reality AND that form does not ever manipulate formlessness. Formlessness is infinite nothingness. Form only interacts with more form in a strange loop like manor (watch leo’s strange loop video to understand this phenomena more deeply)

Sorry if this sounds redundant but Im trying to drill home this distinction is needed to understand why brains do not generate consciousness. Brains correspond with various experiences but not consciousness itself. I wont even say create conscious experiences because causality is its own rabbit hole not worth getting into.

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

When you get wounded and it hearts, nerve cells are destroyed and you can see it trough microscope.

Right, you're hallucinating that.

You just aren't conscious enough yet to see it.

Your skepticism seems justified from your POV. But your entire POV is an illusion, which invalidates your own skepticism.

Einstein was not awake. So using his words here only drives you deeper into the illusion.

Quote

"All is just imagination" is oversimplification of the issue and escaping it.

No, you just don't like the answer I'm giving you.

It's too radical for your taste. Your mind still thinks it can outsmart God. Give it up.

[Nivsch]

@Leo Gura what is POV?

But that answer can be given to any question ever, and maybe in the absolute its true but still the conversation cant be deepened if we dont build a bridge between the relative physical truth to the absolute.

In the absolute the sun too is an imagination but thats not gonna win the only-physical paradigm, which still can be 100% true.

The imagination itself can come from the brain. 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Nivsch

[pluto]

Direct Experience is the only thing that will give you the answer you seek. You can go back and forth like this for thousands of years you will still get nowhere.

[Nivsch]

52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

No, you just don't like the answer I'm giving you.

It's too radical for your taste. Your mind still thinks it can outsmart God. Give it up.

How can you know that your position is not a result of brain wiring you did? 

Or to be more accurate - did happen to you, because we dont control anything and all is done for us (no free will = we are all one) but still it doesn't prove non-physical level to reality.

Again, i want that reality will be more than physical. I just looking for something to show me that and cant find.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Nivsch

[LastThursday]

@Nivsch is the reflection in a mirror conscious?

Is the electrical and chemical activity of the brain just a mirror of what is happening outside of it?

[Nivsch]

9 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

@Nivsch is the reflection in a mirror conscious?

Is the electrical and chemical activity of the brain just a mirror of what is happening outside of it?

Chemicals activity can be the cause to your experience, and also can be the result, and also neither cause nor a result and both just happen in the same time for another reason (maybe infinite causes and results?)

But it still can be all physical in all the three cases.

Do you agree that when you feel something, a physical signature of it is happening in the brain at the same time?

Edited September 24, 2019 by Nivsch