Epistemological Realism vs. Epistemological Idealism

[Truth Addict]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

This is not a framework, assumption, belief, or axiom. It is what it is.

Said everyone in the world, including my deluded ego.

[Nahm]

This thread is like an ad for shrooms. 

[Inliytened1]

@Nahm why's that?

[Nahm]

@Inliytened1 All the thinking would be washed away in wonder. 

[Inliytened1]

Just now, Nahm said:

@Inliytened1 All the thinking would be washed away in wonder. 

Indeed

 

[Consilience]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

This thread is like an ad for shrooms. 

 this makes me so happy 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Said everyone in the world, including my deluded ego.

Notice that consciousness is prior to speech. Stop taking what people say so seriously.

[tedens]

..and lower your ego.

[Truth Addict]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Notice that consciousness is prior to speech.

How to separate speech from consciousness without thought?

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop taking what people say so seriously.

I don't. I was being sarcastic.

[Scholar]

9 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Scholar what @Consilience speaks of is Truth with a capital T.  Language, logic, and rationalism cannot capture Truth because it is mystical.  It defies rationalism and it transcends it.   You need an awakening.  You need to become it because everything else is prior to it.  You ARE it.   Everything else is finite.

What I speak of is not Truth, it is different from it, but it is still mind blowing if you were to recognize it.

Also, the way you frame everything is only one way to frame it. Saying "You are it" is thought, saying "Everything else is finite" is thought.

Redness is not Finite. Redness is Redness. Redness is absolute. The problem here is that you still confuse your sense of meaning and value with different dimensions of Isness.

Awakening is as meaningless as Redness is. However, Awakening can manifest meaning. But so can Redness. If you have never truly recognized Redness for what it is, and for how impossible it is, you will obviously not see what I mean.

 

Reducing everything to the most core non-dual Truth and denying dualistic truths is in my opinion a trap.

 

What you are doing here is basically like going to the surgeon while he is operating, telling him that he cannot capture Truth because it is mystical. In what world is that helpful.

Every single person here is aware of the concept of Truth Leo has been teaching us, and how to get to what it is pointing at. It's not helpful to just spam it as if it was a solution to every conversation we are having here.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Scholar

[Scholar]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Reality is an infinite mind. This is not a framework, assumption, belief, or axiom. It is what it is.

You can also say "Reality is an infinite world".

World and mind are the same, there is no difference whatsoever. You just prefer using the word "mind" because you have preconcieved notions attached to mind and world. It stems from how you looked at the WhatIs prior to awakening.

 

For example, you had a conception of consciousness in relation to brain in relation to world. Fundamentally, you could have framed it simply as whatisness or worldness. It's literally the same as framing it as mind, just calling it a different name.

 

To use the word mind without it's relation to worldness is as arbitrary as using the word world without it's relation to mindness. In the end it's simply whatis, it has nothing to do with what people understand as mind or world.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Scholar

[Forestluv]

13 hours ago, Scholar said:

Every single person here is aware of the concept of Truth Leo has been teaching us, and how to get to what it is pointing at. It's not helpful to just spam it as if it was a solution to every conversation we are having here.

Very few are aware of Truth Leo has been teaching. This is much more radical and deeper. Without this awareness, the deeper levels of helpfulness will not be apparent. 

[Leo Gura]

Finger pointing to the moon.

Some of you guys here are like donkeys looking in a mirror but just not getting it.

No amount of pointing can help you. You must sit down and do the work, not debate nonduality on a forum.

You will never get it by debating it on a forum. Get it?

[Scholar]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Finger pointing to the moon.

Some of you guys here are like donkeys looking in a mirror but just not getting it.

No amount of pointing can help you. You must sit down and do the work, not debate nonduality on a forum.

You will never get it by debating it on a forum. Get it?

 

10 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Very few are aware of Truth Leo has been teaching. This is much more radical and deeper. Without this awareness, the deeper levels of helpfulness will not be apparent. 

I don't think we are claiming that we are aware of the Truth, just that we are aware of the path. I am in no rush to reach the ultimate Truth, I enjoy discovering stuff on the way. If I just went full non-dual instantly I wouldn't be having the insights I am having.

 

This particular topic I thought gave the opportunity to try to communicate valuable insights into the unfolding of duality. I think, whether Leo wants to or not, people cling to his frameworks. They do not have the awareness, so all they have is the framework. They would say Framework "Idealism better than Realism" while not recognizing the underlying mechanisms at play. And recognizing, being aware, of the magic that is happening right at the interplay between dualism and non-dualism, so to speak, is just amazing. Why would we not talk about that?

Being unaware of it is in my opinion "one step further away" from Truth.

 

You can have insane experiences just by questioning or looking at some of the fundamental aspects of Isness. I feel like it's different from ego-work, but it is still very valuable, because it gives one a glimpse of the magic, if one can truly see it. To me often it feels like we are being rushed, we are being forcefully pulled towards "Truth", and I think then we get a lot of people talking about stuff they never themselves discovered. I prefer a more natural evolution, a path that is filled with curiousity, not a need to be at the finishing line as fast as possible.

I had the best progress personally whenever I would blend out the knowledge I have about non-duality, and when I would just follow things that I was actually curious about.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Scholar