Would someone share their thoughts on these vaccine statistics?

[Nash]

I don't know how to feel about vaccines anymore. I once watched a John Oliver episode about it and he made me feel like nothing was wrong with them, but after researching I'm starting to become skeptical. Would someone tell me what they think about these statistics?

https://www.westonaprice.org/wp-content/uploads/VaccineFlyer2019.pdf

https://www.westonaprice.org/wp-content/uploads/ImportantFacts.pdf

Edited September 20, 2019 by Nash

[DrewNows]

Naturopathic doc Robert Morse I highly respect and bought a book relating to detoxification and the human body, has much content on YT wrote this in regards to vaccs (I’m not a fan of them, hopefully this is readable): 

Edited September 20, 2019 by DrewNows

[Leo Gura]

The simple fact is we just don't know.

We need more detailed research.

And even if vaccines lead to some problems, that needs to be weighed against the lives they save. And that's a tricky calculus.

[Hansu]

Vaccines are not taken to protect yourself, they are taken to protect the society.

Its kind of like yearly head lice epidemic. If we took every human in the world for 1 day and killed the lices, they would go to extinction or take a very long time to recover. Now there is people living with the parasite in every society 24/7 which is why the numbers explode every year.

Its almost the same with vaccines. Difference is, if you take the vaccine you very likely wont ever get the disease. However, if too many dont take the vaccine, the disease is likely to mutate into a form that you are no longer immune to, then diseases like polio can spread like wildfire, just like head lice spread like wildfire every year.

Vaccines are said to do harm, but probably less than not vaccinating

Edited September 20, 2019 by Hansu

[Norn]

 

[Cepzeu]

The major risk of vaccine is having an allergic reaction to one. And that will happen to 1/10,000. Any other adverse side effect like chronic fatigue has incredibly low chances of happening. Don't take vaccination for granted, this tool is one of the reasons you're able to live without the fear of getting polio or measles or a number of other crippling and paralysing illnesses. My town in New Zealand is currently going through a measles outbreak which is spreading through the metropolitan areas because we don't have 100% vaccination coverage here.

https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/conditions-and-treatments/diseases-and-illnesses/measles/2019-measles-outbreak-information

Yes there can be some catastrophic reactions to vaccines in 1 in a 100 million people. But ending that would be at the detriment of the rest of society - especially those who cannot get vaccinated such as those with immune suppression or very young children.

[Ibn Sina]

First we need to understand exactly what vaccines are.

Vaccines were first developed by Edward Jenner.

How did he make  them?

He took the sample from the small pox boils, and he treated them, and put them into healthy individuals and that induced immunity.

That is how vaccine works.

Vaccines are  just  samples  of the causative agent which may be heat killed or inactivated or their capsule or polysacharride is used etc etc

When you put them in your body, then it activates immunity

But it is not a foolproof method, there's a 0.1% chance that sometime, the 'organism' that we put inside , could infect  the body.

That is why vaccines like BCG , measles etc is not given to immunocompromised individuals like AIDS patients.

But vaccines saves  the lives of milllions of people everywhere.

Virtually all medical professionals agree.

Doctor Mike agrees.

Bill Gates agrees.

The Yale University professor Paul Bloom agrees.

I can't believe Leo is saying 'we don't know, we need more research'.  The fact is , we need to calculate the cost benefit ratio, and  in case of vaccines, it's like 0.1:99.9

It is a shame that a developed country like US is getting measles outbreak due to some fanatics called 'anti-vaxxers'.

Paul bloom in his talk on his book "Against Empathy" talks about the psychology of such anti-vaxxers, and says that they are driven by emotions, instead of reason, their judgment is based  on 1 or 2 mishaps to a small child, but they don't look it's larger positive effect which doesn't strike the emotion center like the death of 1 (in a million) small innocent child does.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[crab12]

Quote

that they are driven by emotions, instead of reason

I've lurked in all kinds of weird forums and I find this incorrect. They have come to their position through reason and view others, who are 24/7 bashing on their personal choice, as driven by emotions.

Their logic is pretty much as follows. Individuals who have taken vaccines to have them tested in labs have found aluminium, a bunch of heavy metals, glyphosate and all kinds of contaminates that shouldn't be there and are not mentioned on the label. Pharma companies that produce vaccines have let the quality slip because it's expensive to produce high quality product. So here's the dilemma, should you inject your newborn with a vaccine that creates immunity for a non-fatal disease but potentially expose him/her to contaminates which might do permanent neurological / mental damage?

So their decision is, fuck the society, they're not going to expose their newborn to this risk.

[Ibn Sina]

11 minutes ago, crab12 said:

've lurked in all kinds of weird forums and I find this incorrect. They have come to their position through reason and view others, who are 24/7 bashing on their personal choice, as driven by emotions.

That is not my statement, but comes from the Yale university professor Paul bloom.

But what you just said is also not unreasonable. 

From that perspective of course it looks problematic. That is a business or industry related problem ( adulteration of vaccines etc etc), and the management/administration structure etc themselves should fix it.

The bigger problem is the attack on the idea  of vaccine itself. That is rubbish.

It's like saying, because the water is contaminated and it killed a small innocent child, water shouldn't be drunk.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Hansu]

5 hours ago, crab12 said:

So their decision is, fuck the society, they're not going to expose their newborn to this risk.

Yeah fuck the society! Lets all ditch the black plague vaccines and let it rush through the society killing 2/3 of the earths population

Wait, we cant do that becaue black plague is already gone extinct!

If we began vaccinating every child on earth when the polio vaccination was invented, there would not be polio anymore. People who oppose vaccines are making the society suffer, literally. More we use vaccines, less we need to use them

 

[crab12]

I didn't know that black plague was made extinct by vaccines. Yeah vaccines can be very effective. Infections that mutate quickly and have numerous strains are more tricky though.

Moralizing to anti-vaxxers isn't going to convince them. And threatening them and forcing them (for example in Germany there is going to be a 4k EUR fine for a unvaccinated child)? As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Why not address their concerns? Here's a a bottle of vaccine, take it and store it in your fridge. And here's enough money to have it tested in 3 labs around the world of your choosing. Once you are satisfied with the results please have your kid vaccinated from the same bottle. Say a 1000 anti vaxxers did this and found that 99.98% of the vaccines are contaminate free. This would convince a significant proportion of anti vaxxers to the other side and would only cost ~10mm$. Or if more vaccines were found to be contaminated this would force companies to produce better quality.

But then there are orthodox jews and strict moslems who refuse vaccines. Some vaccines have gelatin from pigs so it's not halal, no idea why orthodox jews refuse vaccines.

 

Quote

Rate of autism today between the ages of 3 and 17: 1 in 36

Quote

Rate of autism today: 1 in 59

Quote

Projected rate of autism in 2032: 1 in 2

Quote

Projected rate of autism in 2025: 1 in 2

Now that's scary (if true).

Edited September 23, 2019 by crab12

[DrewNows]

Literally everyone I’ve watched promoting Truth and taking responsibility for themselves seems to be either anti vaccination or pro vaccine safety, anyways, if you can’t understand where an antivaxxer is coming from then try watching some documentaries. I watched an interview with a woman who helped make vaccines, who promotes vaccine safety, and she claims to have lost her job in her demand to expose a discovery of the problems vaccines had been linked to. It’s foolish to try and convince anyone without understanding where they are coming from 

philosophy of health, wellness and disease is one of the biggest contributors to the division and misunderstandings of the two sides  

Edited September 23, 2019 by DrewNows

[mandyjw]

I have a son who is autistic so I have done a lot of research on autism and its causes. We do know what causes autism and it's an incredibly complicated mix of many factors. 

To add to that we have become much more understanding and compassionate as a society and have become much better at spotting autism early and diagnosing it. We also got rid of separate diagnosises and include them all on the autism spectrum. All the statistics on autism rising cannot possibly figure all the factors in for changes in how we diagnosis it. 

In the 70's if you had Aspergers (now no longer exists as a diagnosis, it's all autism spectrum) you'd be bullied and shoved into a locker. Now if you have Asbergers, you would receive extra help with speech and social skills, go on to be really successful in a field of interest, have a family and have children on the spectrum.  

Autism is caused mostly by genetics, which are affected by gut bacteria changes, which though it's possible gut bacteria  could be affected by vaccines, antibiotic over use, pesticides in the food system especially the persistent use of glyphosate, are much more likely to be the major culprits. Stress during pregnancy, early infancy and different changes in lifestyles due to the use of technology are also a huge culprit for changing gut bacteria, which in turn changes the way genes express themselves.

The prenatal and postpartum care that mom and babies get in this country is abysmal. When I brought my son home from the hospital, the amount of education the nurses were required to give me on SIDS was ridiculous. I came home with severe anxiety and forced my baby to sleep in a cool room on his back on a firm mattress because that was their directions. He did not sleep in those conditions and I didn't either. If I had been told it was ok to co-sleep his early infancy would have been so much healthier for him. I was not given hardly any information or support on postpartum anxiety or depression and was left to figure all that out on my own. 

My point is vaccines save lives. If you want to save the most lives that you can with your money, you vaccinate kids in third world countries. Vaccines are miraculous. Yes, we should study their negative affects as much as we can. But there is a lot lower hanging fruit that can be changed if you care about human health. The inherent fear of needles and having something foreign injected into you or your baby fuels all kinds of irrational reasoning for that fear. If you want to live in fear, intellectually it makes a lot more sense to be afraid of your glyphosate ridden Cheerios you eat for breakfast every morning. 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by mandyjw

[outlandish]

The jury isn't really out on this matter; vaccines have been a godsend for humanity. The benefits irrefutably outweigh the harms. 

Quote

 

"At least 10 million deaths were prevented between 2010 and 2015 thanks to vaccinations."

--Dr Chan, WHO Director-General

 

A couple of examples:

 

Smallpox

The smallpox vaccine has lead to the eradication of the smallpox. This has saved and estimated hundreds of millions of lives, and spared humanity the horrors of this:

We take it for granted now that we don't have to worry about smallpox, but can you imagine what it would be like when this was going around and you or your children might catch it, and you had no way to stop it?

 

Measels

Measels is still around, and unfortunately the anti-vax movement has spurned it's reappearance in the industrialized world. Nonetheless, it has saved an estimated 17 million lives since 2000

Measels isn't fun. Symptoms include the painful itchy rash, a weakened immune system, brain inflammation, possible death.

 

You could make a huge list of horrific diseases that used to haunt humanity, but are now vague memories thanks to vaccines, but I'll stop there.

[DrewNows]

THE TRUTH 

"Mercury, Thimerosal, and aluminum are all neurotoxins found in vaccines.

This world has become so out of balance, that sticking people in the arm with neurotoxins and chemicals, is the answer to avoid mysterious viruses and diseases!??? Really? This is a scam, and these vaccines are killing people and causing serious neurological problems in kids and adults that are exposed to them!

This is a culture of brainwashing and fear! We need to get connected to nature again, and clean out our brains,because the brainwashing is so thick,nobody knows what a healthy diet, and what causes “diseases” to occur in the body.

If you get sick allot, the answer is not a flue shot or vaccine, and those that are known to take these chemical neurotoxins, seem to get more sick, vs those that don’t ? clean out the terrain in the body, and the only way to strengthen the immune system, is to go after the very system that deals with that, and it’s interstitial fluid throughout the whole body, not just the gut, it’s the lymphatic system.

If you clean out the sewer system in the human body, (lymphatic system) then you will be able to eliminate the pathogens, microbes, virals, etc. The body when it’s flowing nice, because it’s not backed up with sewage terrain, excess fat, toxins, and parasitic activity, will detox out any “virus” that is talked about by these companies that push these flue shots and vaccines.

These vaccines contain mercury, Thimerosal, and aluminum!? So you want that in the body, because your buying into the fear of these bullshit viruses, or viruses possibly created in labs, so they can push the vaccine to “treat it” this is a lie, and it’s an evil lie that’s destroying our youth, and humanity all around the world!

These chemicals will damage the central, autonomic, and parasympathetic nervous system, leaving a person a vegetable, and we have these events taken place on recored after someone is administered this poison! the Hippocratic oath that every medical doctor takes says to administer no poison to their patients? But yet vaccines, flu shots, chemo and radiation is a chemical hit on the human organism?

If you want to avoid this modality of insanity, then I highly recommend you get healthy, you clean out your body with living foods, you get your kidneys filtering, you de-worm yourself with nature’s medicine, fruits, vegetables, and herbs, you get rid of the viral loads (foreign proteins) fungus, biofilms, Mucoid plaque, synthetic sulfate residues,protein plaques, undigested fecal matter, and the acids and mucus that clog up the entire piping system (lymphatic system) in the human body, and your body will naturally protect you from these “evil mysterious diseases” that vaccines, and flue shots do nothing to fix, and treat anyways, because for one diseases are illusionary concepts for the AMA to push drugs, and to keep humanity in chains, and it’s simple to understand that if your body is clean and working on a energy that keeps it clean, (electromagnetic energy) from a diet and lifestyle of regenerative detoxification, your body will protect you from these foreign proteins, but you must go after the cause, and it’s not bad luck, it’s a sewer system backed up in the body full of acids and mucus, that allow these viruses and bacterium to take precedence that causes proliferation that damages cells, that creates dis-ease in the human body.

Nature’s answer to protect the body and help the regeneration, and cleaning process to take place, is a diet of fresh raw fruit, and herbal botanicals, and if you don’t know about the healing powers of herbs, go do your research on them, it’s a quick google search, and a book at a library near you.

You need the electromagnetic energy and astringent properties of the fruit, to clean your lymphatic system, which takes up room in the majority of spaces in the human body, it’s the largest fluid in the body, and this sewer pipping system, is 4 times bigger then the blood system. You need energetics to move lymph to the kidneys, and you need to be on a diet that supports the kidneys, and fruits and herbs do that, and acid and mucus forming foods damage them. The kidneys are connected to the great lymphatic system, and they are the valve to remove metabolitic waste from the body (via urinary channel) fruits are electric, they are not acid ash forming, and mucus forming, they clean and repair damaged tissue, and they help the kidneys to filter!

A diet of raw foods, and mainly the fruits is your best insurance plan, for keeping the body clean, and removing foreign proteins from the body that come into it, but chemicals and known carcinogens like Mercury, Thimerosal, and Aluminum damage the human body, they in no way protect it.

If it was me I would never take a vaccine or flue shot, and any system that makes them mandatory, it would be better to move to another country that doesn’t push them on your children, then to run into the potential hell that these poisons can do, when they are injected in the human body!!!

Get back to nature my friends, get back to the diet your biologically designed to eat, tap into your intuitive consciousness, let your instincts guide you, surrender to the present moment, and I promise you my friends you will thrive!"

Written my Jonathon RA Stearns AKA the Mangotarian

POST ON AUTISM: 

@mandyjw

"Autism. Go after the nervous system!

Again we want to keep it simple and not get hung up on the term “autism” and understand that it’s a neurological event, and in my opinion it’s a condition that was irresponsibly created by modalities of allopathic “treating” of neurotoxins such as vaccines, and other chemical compounds that we see out there in the medications that were created on illusionary “diseases” and fear!

You don’t need a vaccine for a disease, because they don’t exist, they are created with chemistry that nobody needs, because the body protects itself when it’s clean and alkaline.

If you end up with these cards dealt, and your child is going through this neurological situation, and his adrenals and CNS has shut down, there is only one thing you can do to heal the brain, and that’s to get the neurotoxins out of the brain, and to fix the adrenal glands, clean the lymph system, and to get the kidneys filtering.

Any neurological even that effects the lymph system, adrenal glands, and CNS (central nervous system) you must detoxify the body for it to restore itself. Fruits, berries, and melons are what your diet should look like, because you will need the electromagnetic energy for the neurons to function, turn on, or regenerate, and when you fix the nerves and clean the lymph system saturated with these acids, and chemical compounds, then the body will know how to fix itself.

This is no short journey of regeneration dealing with serious issues related to a damaged CNS, and autonomic nervous system, however anything can be fixed when you clean the body’s stagnant sewer system, and get the kidneys filtering.

You want to bring activity to the cells with energy and alkalinity, and when you do this then the body can be fixed.

If I was dealt with these cards with my child, I would not wait around for some kind of “magical treatment” that doesn’t exist, and I would focus on regenerative detoxification.

You can do a chem/metal detox with green juice and herbs, but you must focus on a diet that cleans and moves lymph, and that’s a diet of fruit only, to clean effectively, and herbs that support these systems that have shut down, such as the kidneys (channel to remove lymph) endocrine glands, gi tract and lymphatic system.

The best you can do is work on the nervous system, and a fruit diet is best for that hands down. I would not waste time with any other foods other then fruit and herbs, and I would make it a mission to get my affected child’s kidneys filtering, with a diet that cleans lymph, and that means to remove the dead food completely, because dead foods are acidic, and contain no energy to do anything to enhance the nervous system, or to encourage the body to clean lymph, so the body can remove the acids, and chemical compounds that shut down the CNS that keeps the brain firing on all cylinders.

I would keep my child on upper circulation herbs,herbs for the brain and nervous system, kidneys always, endocrine glands, adrenal glands, and go after the gi tract so the head can drain effectively!

It’s the neurotoxins stagnate in the brain parents, and this is why the child is having outburst and behavior problems. If you clean the brain with the raw foods, and remove the acids that cause dysfunctions, then this issue will resolve itself overtime.

The body my friends will clean itself, and fix these damages systems, if you allow the body to enter this process, and that’s to remove the chemistry that blocks the flow of energy, and creates a state of disease, and that’s chemistry found in dead acidic foods, and chemical medications, and anything that sucks the electrolytes, and dehydrates the body on a cellular level, which are foods outside of fruits and vegetables pretty much, and that would mean alive foods that are energetic such as your fruits, berries, and melons!

Try to keep things simple when dealing with this kind of situation, because there is nothing more you can do but to hydrate and alkalize a persons body dealt with this kind of neurological event, and to get the kidneys filtering. If you play in the world of illusionary “diseases” you can get burnt, but when you turn to nature, then you can restore the damage caused, if you move and remove the waste that damage the cells structure function, and the glands that control the systems, such as the nervous system, which would be the adrenal glands, it’s endless what you can do, when you are dealt with a situation of no return.

What else can you do? You can’t treat a damage CNS and reverse the problem for good, you must clean and remove the neurotoxins that shut it down in the first place, and in my opinion the biggest neurotoxin pushed out there, is the vaccines that are designed to “protect” us from bullshit diseases that don’t exist.

There is only one disease and that’s damaged cells (systemic acidosis) and their is one great system that is designed to remove this acid chemistry (great lymphatic system), and the root way to remove the metabolitic waste, is going to be the kidneys and skin, and to open up these doors, you must remove the offenders that cause stagnation of this system, and shut down these channels, or eliminative organs, and that’s proteins, chemicals, and acids!

Fruits, berries and melons only diet with herbal botanicals, and if possible some short term periodic dry fasting, is what I would do, and encourage for anyone dealing with autism, or any other neurological dysfunction, because fruit and herbs is on top of the mountain when it comes to electromagnetic energy to enhance movement, and activity for the body to clean itself.

Get back to nature my friends, get back to the diet your biologically designed to eat, tap into your intuitive consciousness, let your instincts guide you, surrender to the present moment, and I promise you my friends you will thrive!"

Written my Jonathon RA Stearns AKA the Mangotarian

[Nash]

I do think they are necessary, it's just that some of these statistics are pretty creepy. 

Hopefully we look into this more seriously as a society one day, and health in general.

Like Leo said, we need more research. I'm just glad I am alive now and I'm able to converse with this community.

I appreciate everybody's responses. They are insightful.

Good luck to everybody dealing with friends and family that have impairments or autism.

[Leo Gura]

Of course vaccines were good for mankind overall. I don't think anyone disputes that.

The question is, how do we make them even better?

Yes, gasoline cars were very helpful for mankind.

But now it's time to upgrade to electric cars which should come with less harmful side effects.

See, the problem is, even if vaccines save 10 million lives for every 1 life they destroy, if you're the mother or father of a child who will get destroyed, you're not gonna take it quietly. Statistics are no consolation when your luck runs out.

I don't understand why all-organic vaccines can't be produced. Do we really need mercury in there? Or is that just some cost-cutting measure?

[Cepzeu]

In order for vaccines to work efficiently, immune promoting substances called adjuvants are added. One such adjuvant is aluminium and is added in tiny doses. 

The reason for adding adjuvants is to stimulate the innate immune system. This results in a better long term response in the adaptive immune system.

They inflame and irritate the injection site and are painful - but that is a sign that the vaccine will work better not that the vaccine companies are trying to kill you lol.

Think of it like this. Your immune system is a bunch of militia in a town. vaccines are like training dummies - help to train the militia but wont actually hurt the town. With adjuvants, the dummies are still harmless, but now yell insults at the soldiers like "your mom's a fat whore!" which angers the soldiers more and gets them riled up. Next time when an actual virus attacks the soldiers will remember the insults from the dummies which will send them into a fighting rage and they will be more effective at killing off the real virus.

TL;DR - adjuvants (like aluminium) make vaccines much more effective. They are there for a reason. 

To properly understand the pros and cons of vaccines you need at least a second -year university education in immunology. I'm sorry but most anti-vaxxers have no idea what they're talking about. The posts in this thread are full of conjecture, conflating causation with correlation, and just not understanding how basic science works. 

Yes science has its problems but most anti vaxxers are not scientifically literate, they have not transcended the limits of science and looked back on it - they've not understood vaccines and instead made a strawman to attack.

I'm not saying vaccines are 100% risk free but I'm cautioning you to read and learn in detail about what vaccines do. DO NOT take a stand FOR OR AGAINST vaccines based on mob mentality. Take it upon yourself to learn about them from both anti-vax and scientific sources (this is made harder by the fact that not every scientific study is equal in the quality of its design).

IN GENERAL, anti-vaxxers make huge leaps in rationalising their position and generally have no idea what they're talking about. The reason for this is that there are many nuances in traps in science which only start becoming apparent after at least a university level education in a scientific field, which most anti-vaxxers don't have.

For transparency I am speaking from a position of a bachelors degree in biochemistry (with added education in immunology, genetics, and plant biology) and being half way through med school. Take from that what you will, you can even say I'm biased, but just take the time to make a thorough inquiry before you make a stance.

Not pointing fingers, but anyone saying that you can just abandon these things by turning to nature and "natural" remedies is speaking from such arrogance and can only say this because they are standing on the shoulders of the giants enabled modern medicine. Sure it's not perfect but just take a look at history and how close we have been to being wiped out by infectious diseases. The only reason anti-vaxxers don't get ill is because of herd immunity. And by not getting immunised they are putting people who can't get immunised in a dire situation. 

[Cepzeu]

On 26/09/2019 at 8:08 AM, DrewNows said:

If you clean out the sewer system in the human body, (lymphatic system) then you will be able to eliminate the pathogens, microbes, virals, etc. The body when it’s flowing nice, because it’s not backed up with sewage terrain, excess fat, toxins, and parasitic activity, will detox out any “virus” that is talked about by these companies that push these flue shots and vaccines.

That's like saying if you make the flower beds in your medieval village look nice it will stop a horde of combat-advanced barbarians from burning every single building, raping and killing every single woman and child and gutting every single man in the village. 

There are viruses and bacteria that can do as they please with the human body. You will have no natural defence. They will rape and kill every cell in your body until you are a melted liquid mess on the ground (figuratively speaking). A human without access to modern medicine is like the US without its military and combat technology.

[remember]

6 hours ago, Cepzeu said:

Think of it like this. Your immune system is a bunch of militia in a town. vaccines are like training dummies - help to train the militia but wont actually hurt the town. With adjuvants, the dummies are still harmless, but now yell insults at the soldiers like "your mom's a fat whore!" which angers the soldiers more and gets them riled up. Next time when an actual virus attacks the soldiers will remember the insults from the dummies which will send them into a fighting rage and they will be more effective at killing off the real virus

what about using snake poison instead? just a healthy amount? did anyone ever try that... bad for vegans though.

come on there are a lot of poisons out there that could be tested, they just don`t sound so clean like "minerals".

the whole point is that medicine stands on the shoulder of giants.

Edited September 28, 2019 by remember