how important is attractiveness for men in a relationship?

[LoveandPurpose]

Hey @Emerald! 

And there is usually an uncanny level of mirroring happening, in way of both positives and negatives.

 

Is mirroring just having the same characteristics, personality traits and bevaviors or is there more to it? 

Are people attract to similarties, complemenatry opposites or a mix of both?

[bejapuskas]

43 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Not true. Everyone cares about the quality of every day experience.

That's a valid point, but only a few people care about it mindfully and that makes the difference.

[Forestluv]

46 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

Women and Men have the same physiology of arousal

Omg no. ?

[Ibn Sina]

10 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Omg no. ?

Okay, then that means you are smarter than the Physiologists who wrote Guyton and Hall(book used by medical students world wide). I was just quoting that. That's not my opinion. 

I can even write down the exact pathway, but I don't think you will have any use of it.

All I am trying to do is give out information that is science based , written by scientists, and not mislead people. I don't know what you are trying to do.

I will go far as to say , you don't even know the meaning of 'physiology of arousal' to which you are laughing at. You have no idea at all. Read more.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, Mikael89 said:

The rest you say is putting words into my mouth.

>>>Too skinny: unattractive. Too thick: unattractive. There's a quite narrow interval which is just perfect. <<<<

Sure sounds picky to me! (From your thread) what I mean by pointing this out is that you called women picky. Well, you are also.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Anna1

[Forestluv]

17 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

Okay, then that means you are smarter than the Physiologists who wrote Guyton and Hall(book used by medical students world wide). I was just quoting that. That's not my opinion. 

It’s not a contest of who is smarter.

I don’t know of the context of that statement, yet taken on it’s own - it would need very imaginative definitions of the terms “same”, “physiology” and “arousal” to make it true. 

Men and women have differences within endocrine, neural and muscular systems - which has differential effects on sexual arousal. Of course there will be similarities, yet also differences. It would be fair to say “men and women have some similarities regarding the physiology of arousal”, yet claiming “the same” is absurd. And this only addresses the physical - there are many relative differences as well. 

Appealing to authorities can create a dynamic in which a person is confined to a contracted view and erroneously tries to extrapolate that to apply to a larger view. 

[Ibn Sina]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

It’s not a contest of who is smarter.

I don’t know of the context of that statement, yet taken on it’s own - it would need very imaginative definitions of the terms “same”, “physiology” and “arousal” to make it true. 

Men and women have differences within endocrine, neural and muscular systems - which has differential effects on sexual arousal. Of course there will be similarities, yet also differences. It would be fair to say “men and women have some similarities regarding the physiology of arousal”, yet claiming “the same” is absurd. And this only addresses the physical - there are many relative differences as well. 

Appealing to authorities can create a dynamic in which a person is confined to a contracted view and erroneously tries to extrapolate that to apply to a larger view

I hope people find great wisdom in what you have to say. I don't. We 2 should not talk. 

[Forestluv]

By saying there are differences, does not exclude aspects of sameness. Overall, similarities.

In terms of science, recent studies of neural imaging found very similar brain responses to sexual imagery between men and women:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/57689-meta-analysis-sexual-arousal-brain-differences-men-and-women

In this context, it would be fair to say that the responses are very similar (although I would say “the same” is a bit of a stretch). 

Yet in other contexts, there are clear differences. A woman can become repeatedly sexually aroused dozens of times in a short time period - having 10+ consecutive orgasms and getting re-aroused between each one. Men physiology is very different. Men have a much longer refractory period and are pretty much “one and done”. In this context, men and women are very different. 

At a highly technical level, we can’t even say two men have the “same” physiology of arousal (or two women). 

[Ibn Sina]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Yet in other contexts, there are clear differences. A woman can become repeatedly sexually aroused dozens of times in a short time period - having 10+ consecutive orgasms and getting re-aroused between each one. Men physiology is very different. Men have a much longer refractory period and are pretty much “one and done”. In this context, men and women are very different. 

Just a note - What I said has nothing to do with this. I know that is correct, but that has nothing to do with what I am saying and does not change the point I am making. 

Ok, believe whatever you want. My job  is to impart authentic knowledge. I guess your job is to keep on arguing and somehow try to show that I say is not right. I don't want to waste time but you keep trying to show that somehow what I I wrote is wrong, and that way you may be misleading people and create doubt in people.  I try to prevent such doubts from happening.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Ibn Sina]

You are talking with a medical student who has passed his 'Repro paper' i.e has knowledge of male and female anatomy and physiology inside and out, and is currently learning Gyenecology and Obstretics. There is no room for speculation or philosophizing. Just say 'okay cool' and leave instead of arguing. 
I am not bullshitting, I am giving this forum an oppurtunity to learn some scientific knowledge , and weeding out the myths about reproduction prevalent in the net.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Forestluv]

41 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

Just a note - What I said has nothing to do with this. I know that is correct, but that has nothing to do with what I am saying. 

Ok, believe whatever you want. My job  is to impart authentic knowledge. I guess your job is to keep on arguing and somehow try to show that I said is not right. I don't want to waste time but you keep trying to show that somehow I am what I wrote is wrong, and that way you may be misleading people and create doubt in people.  I try to prevent such doubts from happening.

I may have misinterpreted what you wrote or taken it out of context. That was not my intention. 

As you wrote, sometimes not addressing nuances can increase clarity - yet sometimes not addressing nuances can decrease clarity. It can be challenging to balance. It something I go through a lot with my students. 

I am not trying to argue with you. It’s not “me vs. you” and “right vs wrong” . I posted a link above that supports your claim. . . saying that you are right. . . Rather than arguing as me vs you, right vs wrong - I prefer to explore. For example, in what ways are the arousal mechanisms the same between men and women? In what ways are they different? Together, I bet we could come up with many aspects that are the same and many that are different. 

That is awesome you are a medical student. I am a professor at a University that teaches med students. It’s a great career and I wish you the best. What area of medicine would you like to specialize in?

[Forestluv]

 

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, LoveandPurpose said:

Hey @Emerald! 

And there is usually an uncanny level of mirroring happening, in way of both positives and negatives.

 

Is mirroring just having the same characteristics, personality traits and bevaviors or is there more to it? 

Are people attract to similarties, complemenatry opposites or a mix of both?

Can be. But more-so, what I mean is that you'll find people who are dealing with similar but reciprocal issues and life-patterns. But there can be incompatibilities in other ways too.

And this can be leveraged for better or worse. 

For example, someone dealing with having trouble expressing anger might find themselves in a relationship with someone who is chronically displaying anger. This, when taken unconsciously, is a recipe for disaster. But when taken consciously with the intent to help eachother grow can be an opportunity for both to understand themselves better and heal.

[Ibn Sina]

20 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I really really wish I would have the courage to kill myself.

Seriously? 

I know what your problems is, I am suspecting that you have an INTPlike personality, too much in your head.  You read too much, you think too much and that is your problem.

If I was in your place, and I was in such a depressed mood, then I would get my ass up , and start talking with 100 women in a row untill the problem solves easily.

The problem is you don't have balls. Don't think, act, and start talking to women like you are a dog wanting to mate. Throw away your self esteem shit. 
Once you get with a relationship with a girl or 2 , then a new mindset will open in you. 

Looking at your profile, you are nothing ugly looking, you are just an average guy with a pathological mindset which will slowly nibble your soul little by little. 

Get your ass up, say enough is enough, today talk with at least 10 girls, I am sure you will have a relationship with 5 of them. And  lo behold, your psychological problem is also gone.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Ibn Sina]

Just now, Mikael89 said:

You can't be serious with that comment. I don't think you are. But you made me laugh, so thanks for that. If you are serious: well.. I don't even know what to say then, I don't want to get warning points.

I am being serious. And that is the only way you will solve your problem. These things cannot be solved by thinking or speculating. You have to turn into a mad, salivating dog in hunt of a bitch. Otherwise you will be in your couch all your life whining about why you don't have a woman and you will die soon. But if you do eat this frog, then your life will change. That's the solution. Only solution. You have to turn into a dog.

[Forestluv]

22 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Most men who approach us aren't truly interested in us (as a special human being beyond the looks)

I’m sure this varies among women, yet I’m curious in general how high this is one in terms of actual attraction. For example, on a date a woman mentions she has an art hobbiest and shows a couple photos of her work. The guy is genuinely impressed and appreciates her creative ability. She mentions she is participating in an art exhibit and he genuinely wants to go. After the show, he becomes really interested in her, beyond her looks. Before their next date, he buys a couple art utensils he thought she may like. He doesn’t know much about art, yet it is a genuinely kind and sweet gesture. He is not doing all this manipulatively to get laid.

I imagine most guys don’t think this type of interest beyond looks is that important to a woman - she just says it is.  Much higher on the list is status, wealth and physical attractiveness of the male. Do you think there is some truth to this? Or are men grossly underestimating the importance of interest beyond looks?

[Ibn Sina]

I have suspected that  the origin of Incels and their resentment and toxic thoughts is more due to a 'comfy' lifestyle. A villager in a 3rd world country has more chance of success with girls then these rich, comfortable incels , and the reason is they don't want to deal with shit. Relationship is a shitty buisness, sometimes it gets bloody, sometimes nasty. Your ego is at stake, self esteem might get demolished, you might appear needy, and incels because of this don't want to actively engage  with girls and  instead think 'girls don't like them' , they expect girls to approach them. It's just  silly. If you want to get approached then you can do surgery and turn into a girl, and many guys will approach you. Is that what you want?
As men, we have to deal with shit all our life, and relationship is the lowest shit to deal with, there are far more larger bigger problems out there, far more dangerous and deadlier. We have to get used  to handling and dealing with shits. Having a 'comfy' lifestyle is the death of us. If you want to get  'comfy' and want to get approached on a daily  basis as you relax like the other girls do then do surgery and turn into a girly girl.  But I assure you that's only the beginning of the problem. 

[Forestluv]

What would be considered an incel? If a man has high standards for a woman and isn’t getting laid because of those high standards - does that count as incel?

For example, what if a man has a standard that he will not have sex with obese women and turns down  sex opportunities with obese women. Would he be considered an incel? What if a woman approaches a man for sex and he turns her down because she is married. Is he an incel?

This is a male subculture I am not familiar with and I am genuinely curious. 

[Emerald]

11 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

What would be considered an incel then? If a man has high standards for a woman and isn’t getting laid because of those high standards - does that count as incel?

This is a male subculture I am not familiar with and I am genuinely curious. 

In the Incel community a guy who isn't getting laid as a result of only wanting the most attractive women is dubbed by many as a fake Incel and is called a StandardCel instead.

But Incels are basically guys who think they can never get laid. And they are usually very misogynistic and diminishing of women because they see women as taking everything from them. They call women Femoids (a mashup between Female and Android) because they see women's purpose as to determine which men have value and which ones don't.

And Incels have decided that they don't.

But if you look at most Incels, they're really just a bunch of normal guys with low self-esteem and body dysmorphia. There is not actual basis to their label of themselves as Incels.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Emerald

[Ibn Sina]

13 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If a man has high standards for a woman and isn’t getting laid because of those high standards - does that count as incel?

Like you , I also don't do deep research about this low consciousness topic of incel, I am not an expert. However , I wouldn't say the above example is an example of incel because here a man is choosing to date women of high standards, he doesn't have any other problem. He knows there are lower women but he chooses to only date higher women. But Incels are just lazy people who don't want to go through the difficulty of  relationship and take the active male role, and instead get comfortable in their own home with computers, games etc , but that is precisely the recipe for toxic resentment and emotions, and they soon start to believe ' Girls don't like me, girls have it better' and that kind of thing which creates this downward spiral of toxicity on and on whose depth goes down to God knows how deep. One Incel even turned into a school shooter. He was good looking, he was rich, had cars, but just because he doesn't get  approached he always  thought "Girls doesn't like me and so on"  his negativity developed so much that he became a school shooter.
Boys need to be taught to approach women, and be a man and take shit head on. Or else they will develop resentment. Girls have the luxury of relaxing and boys approaching them, that's why girls don't develop resentment. But boys don't , and  some boys (in minority) who don't approach girls and don't get approached too, turn into incels. 

However, this is just my thought. This is just my impression of incels.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Ibn Sina