I don't find many enlightened professionals.

[Ibn Sina]

12 minutes ago, Corpus said:

I work in the field of Medicine and have had many awakening experiences and although I wouldn't presume to call myself enlightened, the experiences have brought me to a place of radical self-honesty via which I have concluded that perfect presence and non-dual existence will be of little abiding benefit when one works in a health system that is crumbling, where doctors do a half-assed job because the concept of time applies and the practical capacity to listen to a patient, stare into the distance for 30 seconds before offering a clinical insight (as the guru might do whilst earning his living) is not viable.

Yes, but an 'enlightened doctor' could also work efficiently like a complete stage orange doctor. He can put his spirituality aside in his practice. Of course spirituality has 0 benefit or synergy with medicine. But still I think it's possible that man can be a highly efficient doctor who when he is not practicing medicine, has enlightenment within him.
That's the difference between a stage orange and turquoise doctor. There's no difference when they are doing their job, the difference is when they are not doing their job

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Ibn Sina]

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

I'm one

I am not sure you are 100% enlightened. 

[LeoIsMe69]

Enlightened doctor could just know/see his patients as perfectly healthy, thus 'healing' them

[Corpus]

1 hour ago, Ibn Sina said:

 There are monks and sannyasins who have dedicated their entire life for meditation and enlightenment.

There should be enlightened doctors, enlightened politicians, enlightened columnists, chess grandmasters and  politicians. 
Spirituality should penetrate into the dual, only then can it be really meaningful and powerful.

Not everyone can go and dedicate 24 hours on spirituality.  

But what it looks like is that spirituality is a 24 job, and if you want to be enlightened then you have no choice to but to go all in.

It's easy to pull off at least 10,000 hours of intense spirituality and psychedelic training by the end of your life, no matter which profession you are in.

 

OPs words.

So-is spirituality a 24 H job or not?

Is not the work of the professionals listed in the realm of the dual, or not?

Is it really easy to do these jobs well, and find 10000 hours to achieve "enlightenment" at the end of your life?

How many doctors, columnists, grandmasters and politicians do you socialize with (ie when not being enlightened at work, for as you claim work/being spiritual are not convergent, or necessary) to claim they are not plentiful? 

[Aeris]

After stage turquoise

stage coral !

Who is more enlightened.

For all we know Hitler could have been enlightened and abused stage red/blue thinking to work his way out.

For me a good way to know is.

Self value - focus

Level of Mastery in his own domain

 

People who never liked art ( to the point of tears ) or created art : totaly non enlightened.

Creator' mindset

There is only art in the end. So no art no enlightened.

 

 

[Ibn Sina]

15 minutes ago, Corpus said:

So-is spirituality a 24 H job or not?

It looks like that, when looking at all the spiritual masters or spiritual 'success stories' like Buddha, Osho, Sadhguru. All they do is talk spirituality. It doesn't have to be like that.

15 minutes ago, Corpus said:

is not the work of the professionals listed in the realm of the dual, or not?

It is.

 

15 minutes ago, Corpus said:

Is it really easy to do these jobs well, and find 10000 hours to achieve "enlightenment" at the end of your life

I think so. I mean, who cannot put aside atleast 1 hour a day for spirituality? Doing that could lead to 10,000 hours some day. Dedicate the rest of the hours to your work. How  is it not possible?

15 minutes ago, Corpus said:

How many doctors, columnists, grandmasters and politicians do you socialize with (ie when not being enlightened at work, for as you claim work/being spiritual are not convergent, or necessary) to claim they are not plentiful? 

All I find is highly toxic and egoic   doctors, columnists, grandmasters and politicians who are beyond doubt not enlightened. 
An enlightened doctor could work efficiently like any doctor, the difference is there  is an overflowing of love radiating from his heart, but his mind works as efficiently as any doc. 
 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Corpus]

1 minute ago, Ibn Sina said:

 

I think so. I mean, who cannot put aside atleast 1 hour a day for spirituality? Doing that could lead to 10,000 hours some day. Dedicate the rest of the hours to your work. How  is it not possible?

 

Re-read the question to which you proffered this gem. Don't worry about the whole question; just read up to the word AND, and reflect.

(Clue-its fucking hard to be a good doctor).

[Ibn Sina]

Here's a scenario-

He looks at the patient, he quickly finds the signs, symptoms, the investigations,diagnosis, the treatment, finished. 
Then he relaxes, and instead of his mind wandering into worries, and doubts, past and futures like a stage orange doc, he has peace and only peace.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Ibn Sina]

9 minutes ago, Corpus said:

Re-read the question to which you proffered this gem. Don't worry about the whole question; just read up to the word AND, and reflect.

(Clue-its fucking hard to be a good doctor)

You are right. It is difficult. The ideal of 'enlightened professionals' is difficult, but I don't think impossible. That's all. It's a very very very idealistic dream. 
It's not a guarantee that dedicating 24H leads to enlightnement, and adding 'professionals' to it is going one step further.

Are you a doctor?

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[Corpus]

1 minute ago, Ibn Sina said:

Here's a scenario-

He looks at the patient, he quickly finds the signs, symptoms, the investigations, the treatment, finished. 
Then he relaxes, and instead of his mind wandering into worries, and doubts, past and futures like a stage orange doc, he has peace and only peace.

And a little later, the patient is admitted because in the doctors haste to "quickly find" symptoms, signs and give treatment he has missed vital info leading to an error. But, coz he is enlightened, he realises the patients suffering is imaginary, as is the letter from the regulators telling him his licence is gone. This tests his level of enlightenment and he is found wanting because his children starving is really The Brutal Side of Radical Love.

Sincerely, you have no clue what the realities of being a doctor are. 

[Corpus]

4 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

 

Are you a doctor?

Yes.

[Forestluv]

Based on the OP’s definition of enlightenment, Deepak Chopra comes to mind. 

[Ibn Sina]

13 minutes ago, Corpus said:

And a little later, the patient is admitted because in the doctors haste to "quickly find" symptoms, signs and give treatment he has missed vital info leading to an error. But, coz he is enlightened, he realises the patients suffering is imaginary, as is the letter from the regulators telling him his licence is gone. This tests his level of enlightenment and he is found wanting because his children starving is really The Brutal Side of Radical Love.

You are wrong about the 1st half but right about the 2nd half. 
Why do you already assume that the enlightened doctor would make mistake?
What about, let's say- He doesn't make mistake. But if he did, 30 years into his practice, that wouldn't cause great grief in him. That's all.

I think you are connecting sensitivity to work efficiency.

A stage orange doctor would go- Oh no I must never ever ever make a mistake.
While a Turqoise may not do so.
But I don't think the stage orange doc thinking that would lead to any efficiency in his performance.

It's all about the about of training and hardwork and practice.

A surgeon who is operating on his son might also say-   I must never ever ever make a mistake. I hope you know what happens in such cases.
 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[wavydude]

Becouse they are enlightened, when you find answer to all human suffering you want to contribute by teaching that becouse there's literally nothing better you can do. Let's say you have degree in nuclear physics, would you decide to contribute to society by becoming a janitor ? No, you want to do the most impactful thing you can.

 

Peter Ralston is an enlightened martial artist and in one of his videos he says that at first he was devoting more time to teaching martial arts and some to consciousness work and after time the balance naturally shifted.

[Ibn Sina]

Just now, wavydude said:

Peter Ralston is an enlightened martial artist and in one of his videos he says that at first he was devoting more time to teaching martial arts and some to consciousness

I am talking about someone like, a Stock Broker + Enlightened master.

[Corpus]

2 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

You are wrong about the 1st half but right about the 2nd half. 
Why do you already assume that the doctor would make mistake?
What about, let's say- He doesn't make mistake. But if he did, 30 years into his practice, that wouldn't cause great grief in him. That's all.

I think you are connecting sensitivity to work efficiency.

A stage orange doctor would go- Oh no I must never ever ever make a mistake.
While a Turqoise may not do so.
But I don't think the stage orange doc thinking that would lead to any efficiency in his performance.

It's all about the about of training and hardwork and practice.

A surgeon who is operating on his son might also say-   I must never ever ever make a mistake. I hope you know what happens in such cases.
 

Doctors invariably do make mistakes, and the pressures of time requiring "quickly finding" symptoms and signs exacerbates this and yet the doctor carries the can including loss of livelihood on occasion. We realise perfection does not exist in this game and you improve the odds of a good outcome by a considered approach which takes time. And yet patients will suffer and sadly your average member of the public is not ready to accept that the loss/crippling of their loved one is imaginary.

It is also unethical and effectively forbidden for a surgeon to operate on his own son because of the "un-enlightened concept" of emotional involvement.

[Ibn Sina]

5 minutes ago, Corpus said:

Doctors invariably do make mistakes, and the pressures of time requiring "quickly finding" symptoms and signs exacerbates this and yet the doctor carries the can including loss of livelihood on occasion. We realise perfection does not exist in this game and you improve the odds of a good outcome by a considered approach which takes time. And yet patients will suffer and sadly your average member of the public is not ready to accept that the loss/crippling of their loved one is imaginary.

 

I was thinking that you said , given the same situation and condition, the enlightened doctor would make mistake while the stage orange would not, but what you are saying is both of them have equal chance of making a mistake.

I am asking, how will it be worse to be an enlightened doctor in above case? Wouldn't it better?

An unenlightened doctor suffers more due to his mistake, but an enlightened one handles it well. It would be better.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Ibn Sina

[wavydude]

3 minutes ago, Ibn Sina said:

I am talking about someone like, a Stock Broker + Enlightened master.

Why would enlightened master be a stock broker ? Imagine everyone in the word is suffering from the most deadly disease and no one has a cure and then you happen to find a cure, would you be like " I need to share this with my family, friends and the world" or would you be like " fuck this let's trade some stocks"

[Ibn Sina]

1 minute ago, wavydude said:

Why would enlightened master be a stock broker ? Imagine everyone in the word is suffering from the most deadly disease and no one has a cure and then you happen to find a cure, would you be like " I need to share this with my family, friends and the world" or would you be like " fuck this let's trade some stocks"

LOL, you have not understood my question, but that was hilarious. 

[enderx7]

1 hour ago, Ibn Sina said:

All I see is 'enlightened masters' and the only thing great about them is that they are enlightened. They only talk about spirituality, how to be enlightened 24/7. There are monks and sannyasins who have dedicated their entire life for meditation and enlightenment.

I find this very problematic. There should be enlightened doctors, enlightened politicians, enlightened columnists, chess grandmasters and  politicians. 

this is true but It wont always be and it is in the process of changing right now but it will probably play out very very slowly. I like the example Leo used in spiral dynamics about your societies development level being as the center of gravity or mass. In America, being centermass orange, if you are under the development of orange you will effortlessly find yourself sucked up the spiral to orange level. But if your trying go multiple stages past orange to reach turquoise(non dual consciousness) its going to be like trying to trying to get a rocket to leave earth, your going to have to overcome tremendous gravitational pressure and need some powerful rocket fuel. So yes under these conditions only a small percentage of the most single minded and motivated seekers manage blessed with enough "rocket fuel" break the orbit right now. But think of them as road builders as every seeker that breaks through lays a few bricks that aid those who follow, wither that looks like making few small key societal changes, teaching fellow seekers a effective path in turn creating new teachers, or simply the 100th monkey effect( fascinating study to look into if you havent yet), but every generation the gravity is a little weaker and less rocket fuel is required to break orbit. 

With that in mind looking for turquoise professionals is going to extremely rare even among the rare but honestly thats  overkill we just need advanced professionals. Just individuals who in whatever field they find themselves take time to grow their consciousness a little bit and improve lives in whatever way announces itself to them, This is a much healthier and achievable goal and the difference from dealing with orange level business to green/yellow level business will still be so much more harmonious it will blow your socks off