Doubts about if I really want enlightenment

[AlphaAbundance]

I want enlightenment for 

• Happiness
• Truth, Understanding
• Reach the highest "achievement", most meaningful "thing" possible

After a recent locked post talked about how at the highest states it is completely boring, suffering. And that you will want to revert back. I am starting to wonder if enlightenment is really what I/my ego wants. I have doubts if this is really the best path for me or whether I should just max out happiness in the world of form, acquiring as much meaning possible. Which is best? What does enlightenment actual do? Does it make it where you can't enjoy the world of form? What is the solution to this problem, these doubts?

[AlphaAbundance]

People talking about how enlightenment is not something you want can make people question their belief that enlightenment is helpful and create doubts, easy way out for the ego to stop doing practices, pursuing enlightenment. It's like hearing that running is useless mid run, after having a solid running routine.

[AlphaAbundance]

I feel worried, hesitant, etc thinking of pursuing enlightenment thinking that I will lose joy of pride/achievement/confidence/esteem. It feels worried, saddening thinking do I really want to lose those things. Any solutions/advice/insights/etc?

Also literally what do you feel when enlightened. Is it better than any positive feelings, Joy's of the form? Is it better than the joy of esteem/pride? I understand it is the disattachment from positive and negative emotions (and all of form) but how does that (for lack of a better term) feel? What would be the closest joy on earth? (orgasm?)

[Michael Paul]

@AlphaAbundance Enlightenment gives peace of mind, but it doesn’t (immediately) solve all of your Earthly problems as a human organism. You don’t lose anything with enlightenment, that’s a misconception. What you gain is liberation from the illusion of doership and the misunderstanding of and misidentification with the ego.

[AlphaAbundance]

@Michael Paul How does it not solve all your problems? Don't all those problems become non issues after enlightenment? And wouldn't losing your ego make you lose the joy of esteem/pride because you know you don't exist so you can't feel prideful? Can you still feel prideful, esteemed after enlightenment? ???

Edited September 18, 2019 by AlphaAbundance

[SoonHei]

Realize that _the YOU_ who "wakes up" is already & was ever-awake. So, that means YOU're _awake_ right Now! and the one who asks the question about how to wake up... Well that's not YOU. That's the Ego-Mind. YOU're very much identified with the voice in Your head (Ego-Mind) but that voice isn't YOURS. YOU're really only _aware_ of that voice, but are currently also mis-identified with it. Wrongly presuming YOU're the thinker of the thoughts...

See for Yourself! Can YOU know what the next thought is going to be?

And if you claim that you do, then isn't YOUR _knowing of the next thought_ simultaneous with its appearance before YOU?  ?

And the one who claims to know or not-know the next thought, is _itself_ a thought! - which is a voice in the "head"... And you already know, that voice's not YOU!

[zeroISinfinity]

@AlphaAbundance Take the path it is really THAT worthy. 

For You yourself self first and foremost and only You Can do it. 

It is SELF discovery, there is no bigger Joy in life then this. 

Not pursue it neurotically be curious Investigate like kid. 

Just wanting to know Truth for It's own sake is enough. 

Nothing is hidden everything is ready to be discovered. 

It's adventurous and It's fun. 

Meditation is the way. 

There are only few people here on forum Who are enlightened and active. Always ask  for help and Listen. 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[SoonHei]

38 minutes ago, zeroISinfinity said:

Meditation is the way.

♥️

& Love is the answer.

[AlphaAbundance]

Thank you ❤ but why do you niggas always beat around the bush??

Can you guys answer some of the concerns directly?

Edited September 18, 2019 by AlphaAbundance

[zeroISinfinity]

Just now, AlphaAbundance said:

Thank you ❤ but why do you niggas always beat around the bush??

Can you guys answer some of the concerns directly?

Because I can't touch You with magic Zen stick and get You there?! 

Or maybe I already did that?! 

Take the path, Well worthy. ❤️

Edited September 18, 2019 by zeroISinfinity

[Forestluv]

At the personal level, there is a benefit to being ignorant. If you were at a magic show, would you like to learn how the magic trick works? Or would that spoil the fun?

[SoonHei]

This isn't about dissolving, or getting rid of anything. It isn't about getting rid of your conditioning, or your dislikes, or your bad habits, or your addictions. Conditioning, preferences, addictions are simply as they are .. everything is as it is .. they're just not mine or yours.

[zeroISinfinity]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

At the personal level, there is a benefit to being ignorant. If you were at a magic show, would you like to learn how the magic trick works? Or would that spoil the fun?

It Will not spoil the fun, actually You Will discover it. ?❤️

Playfulness and goodness of existance. 

Adventure. 

[SoonHei]

2 hours ago, AlphaAbundance said:

After a recent locked post talked about how at the highest states it is completely boring, suffering.

@AlphaAbundance  yo ma nikka <3

that post was locked for a reason.

just know that at the TRUE/REAL highest state - it is not boring or suffering.

The true highest state is beyond all that.

so, that poster was simply under the delusion of being at the highest state when he/she clearly was not

 

with that being said, most of your questions in this thread would now seem insignificant...

 

 

also, there's a saying, "attaining Love is not easy... One must drown in a River of Fire to get there"
 

the reward lies at the destination... and the reward makes it all worthwhile... so much so, that you would do it all again without the slightest second-thought   (if you'd have any thoughts at that point to begin with )

[Michael Paul]

@AlphaAbundance No, it solves many of your problems on a spiritual level. But you still have to integrate the enlightened state into your life in the world and actualized your potential as a human being on the planet. 

You can still feel prideful and esteemed after enlightenment, the difference is you no longer identify with it nor do you feel as attached to it.

[SoonHei]

2 hours ago, AlphaAbundance said:

Don't all those problems become non issues after enlightenment?

if an actor is playing a part in a movie of a character who has depression, is poor and his life circumstances are going from bad to worse... the moment the actor knows who he really is - are any of those problems still an issue for HIM or are they then a non-issue for HIM

the problems are the character's issue - and what enlightenment shows you, beyond all doubts and directly, is that YOU are not the character. YOU are NOT  @AlphaAbundance

 

so, the issues (piratical issues) do not go away for the character/alphaabundance

if bills need to be paid in the movie, they will still need to be paid...

YOU just realize WHO-YOU-ARE and thereby not suffer... you must still however continue to chop wood and carry water

Edited September 18, 2019 by SoonHei

[Forestluv]

Threads merged

@AlphaAbundance Please don’t start multiple threads on the same theme. 

[Truth Addict]

I'm not enlightened, but I would trade everything for the blissful state I'm in right now.

I would trade everything for bliss even if I had all the money, food, sex, fame, friends, cars, yachts, properties, etc... in the world.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Jkris]

@Truth Addict Your disclaimer - I am not enlightened ? Why you say you are not enlightened ?

[Superfluo]

@AlphaAbundance

I suggest that you focus on other areas of your life before pursuing enlightment. You can awaken later. The path to enlightenment can be harsh, scary and tough. It really pays off, but after some time. Months, years. I don't know you. Follow your hearth.

Enlightenment is not removing what makes you human, what makes you feel alive, but rather it's experiencing it in a different way. You are more detached from what you experience. And enlightenment is not a mystical experience, be conscious of it.

I like to picture enlightenment this way (notice that this is a belief):

Imagine you're hanging on the edge of a cliff (the cliff is everything that makes you attached to life), below there's nothing. Emptiness. You are hanging there frightened of losing your grip. You don't want to fall. Falling means death. Pursuing enlightenment means trying to lose that grip on purpose. You'll lose everything that you think is saving you, that is keeping you alive, that is keeping Meaning alive.

So why people lose that grip? Because they understand that if you do, you'll fall eternally. If you fall eternally, then you have to worry no more. You have already fallen, and you'll never land, so it's just endless falling.

The beauty in it is that you'll never fear anything because you are falling forever, and what could you be fearful of? This parodoxically makes you appreciate more life, makes you appreciate more the cliff edges that pop up in your fall. You don't need to grab them and become attached to them like it's a matter of life and death. You have already fallen, you are not afraid any more. So you can grab them and let them go when you want.

When you are enlightened, joy, pride, esteem will no longer have meaning. If you haven't lost that grip yet, hearing this could make you sad. But it doesn't mean you'll no longer feel them. It just means they won't be a big thing.

However, even if someone is enlightened, doesn't mean his/her path is ended. You can still do stuff, grow yourself, but because of the lack of meaning, if you'll do something you'll do it for its sake. Kinda like playing.

Watch Leo's video "The Dark Side of Meditation" for some obstacles you might find on your path. Still, meditation is a healthy and useful practice even if you don't want to pursue enlightenment.

However I'm not enlightened, so don't rely too much on what I wrote. Take it with a grain of salt.